After time to think (england)

[Willham]

A little bit of a different angle today.

Yesterday I was all for TT's blood, and still so but with a little bit of a caveat today;

The konsa substitution was on the 71st minute.

England had already played very very deep for 17 minutes.

I could see, you could see, everyone could see it was a problem.

I even said myself, come on get to the drinks break and we can change things.


So the konsa substitution and our sudden panic wasn't the cause, it was a reaction.

A reaction that was the worst reaction possible and only helped compound the collapse but it wasn't the collapse in itself, we had already collapsed it was just the wrong decision in trying to regain the initiative.


Now, thats still the fault of TT, but the initial collapse has to be others too. Kane for one, our captain should be getting the team off the edge of our own box, leading them up and shouting at everyone.

Also, Pickford should be doing the same, I myself was a goalie, and if I had just made a save on my goal line from a header thats done in all my defenders, id be screaming blue murder at them! The resulting corner when we cleared our lines, I would be physically pushing my defenders up the pitch. "GET THE **** OUT MY BOX" I'd be shouting like a raving lunatic.

I saw Kane and Pickford do neither. Pickford was to blame for 2 kicks up field to nobody too, one that literally just went out for a goal kick for Argentina and one for a throw near the argies corner flag. That was also unacceptable for me. As a goalie again, I must in that moment show my team some composure.

Yes TT is massively to blame, and yes I feel his decisions compounded everything into a certainty but there's blame around the team too.

[ffc73]

No, TT turned Southgate & also was not brave enough to hook Kane when Watkins, Rashford & the Arsenal winger (not Saka) could have provided fresh legs to replace Gordon & Rogers too.

We could then have pushed Argentina back using Pickford's long kicks.

TT substitutions were as good as waving a white flag.

[Sammyffc]

Nice points you made but i do disagree with quite a lot.

He had numerous players to bring on to change the reason we were going deep. Mainoo, rashford, madueke ( even though he is poor ) , Watkins etc. He chose to go defensive , nobody else.

Kane is a waste of a player most of the time and isn't captain material but he is our 'best' player. Yes he scores ,however would another striker score or assist with the amount of time kane gets in minutes ?

Pickford, they are on a timer. He is booting it because nobody wants the ball, nobody is up top with pace, if he doesn't after 8-10 seconds Argentina gets a corner due to the rules . That's 100% on tuchel . He can't risk passing it to a defense who is already on edge, whilst simultaneously having nobody with pace upfront.

It was a complete bottle job by Tuchel imo.

[Willham]

Nice points you made but i do disagree with quite a lot.

He had numerous players to bring on to change the reason we were going deep. Mainoo, rashford, madueke ( even though he is poor ) , Watkins etc. He chose to go defensive , nobody else.

Kane is a waste of a player most of the time and isn't captain material but he is our 'best' player. Yes he scores ,however would another striker score or assist with the amount of time kane gets in minutes ?

Pickford, they are on a timer. He is booting it because nobody wants the ball, nobody is up top with pace, if he doesn't after 8-10 seconds Argentina gets a corner due to the rules . That's 100% on tuchel . He can't risk passing it to a defense who is already on edge, whilst simultaneously having nobody with pace upfront.

It was a complete bottle job by Tuchel imo.

I think you're missing my point,

I'm not saying tuchel was right or anything, ONCE he finally made substitutions (which the fact they came so late is another point in itself)

But im trying to say they were other things that was also poor and I think i initially swept under the rug because I was so focused on TT's errors. For instance those above. ^

I said watching the game that Rogers was knackered just before the 60th minute, the subs were so poor, Gordon still had legs, Rogers was running on fumes. TT has to take blame for that but others need to stand and be counted too.

[john dempsey]

Tonights game is the Acid test if the players do not
turn up for Tuchel, and we suffer a bad performance/result.
Then he should be Toast.

[cookieg]

Tonights game is the Acid test if the players do not
turn up for Tuchel, and we suffer a bad performance/result.
Then he should be Toast.

This should be an enjoyable goal fest. 10-10 with Mbappe and Kane scoring 6 each so as to avoid Messi getting the golden boot.

[Baszab]

Kane has now come out and said the tactics were baffling

[Volz]

From a "neutral" point of view I totally get why Tuchel went as defensive as he did. England was completely over run by the time more defenders were put on, and I was dead sure that Argentina was gonna score several times against the current setup regardless. Attempting to avoid that by strengthening an already good defence with more people to cover seemed completely reasonable to me. Perhaps England could have gotten a counter in the end and score themselves with more attacking options but who's to say you also would not have let in 3-4 more goals by then. Hindsight is very much a thing, and although i can understand the outrage for going so defensive i absolutely understand why it was done.
The timing for the last subs was way too late though, I have no excuse for that one

[Whitestone]

At 1-0 England should have gone for a second goal that would have killed the game. Taking Gordon off and not replacing him with like for like was crazy. Saka should have replaced Rogers. Taking Rice off left a massive whole in front of the defence. Sure, he needed to go off but Tuchel could have put Mainoo in. The days have passed and I'm still of the opinion that Tuchel got it all wrong.

[C Block]

To sum it all up, if we were to go one up against Chelsea after 55 minutes and then Arbeloa starts to take attacking options off to be replaced by defenders inviting Chelsea on to us,
And we proceeded to lose 1-2 ,can you imagine the reaction?