Sit Down and Shut Up

[Logicalman]

I honestly don't think you can compare Rugby fans and Football fans together with many similarities.

Football has, and always will have, a reputation for predetermined violence. All you need to do is cast your mind back a couple of months ago, on this MB and on the offal, and the prospect of playing Gillingham away raised the memories of what happened last time, with a number of posters issuing threats, and what they'd like to do to exact revenge, etc, etc. With that mentaility still abounding within the ranks of the football world, one cannot blame the authorities for still believing hooliganism is rife within the sport.  As mentioned before, it's easier to treat all football fans as animals, at the lowest common denominator, than realize that it's just the few that spoil it for the vast majority.

The FA do very little to help either. What was the result of the Spam/Millwall fiasco last time? Slapped wrists and paltry fines? When they have the power to order such teams to play behind closed doors (thus removing the hooligan element) they pander to the money-men of football who don't want to see their pocket books take the hit. Their collective reasoning is so what if a fan gets injured, or dies? It's just 'isolated incidents', nothing to worry about. Unfortunately it's the authorities that have to deal with fallout, and they instruct the Police to carry out and enforce laws aimed at restoring and maintaining the peace.

Unfortunately, as in any job, you are going to get the copper that is in the job for the wrong reason (the 'Hitler' element), just as you get the idiot hooligan fans in every football club, and as we (even on this MB) have tarred all officers with that same over-zealous brush, they will do the same for supporters, and so the status-quo we have today.

[Logicalman]

I would also argue that the very presence of the police changes the mood and puts people on edge.

I honestly believe that the  only people a Police presence puts on edge are those that are likely to cause trouble. I travel through airport security quite often, I have nothing to fear, so why should I fear a police presence? As an air traveler I am treated as though I am a likely shoe-bomber, or that I intend to bring the plane down and kill people, but that is just the way life is, and I accept it, just the same way I accept a Police presence at football matches.

[White Noise]

I honestly don't think you can compare Rugby fans and Football fans together with many similarities.

Football has, and always will have, a reputation for predetermined violence.


Is that true though. Did football violence exist in the 1960's and before? I thought, in terms of widespread touble, it was the preserve of the 70's and 80's?? Did you have gangs of football fans fighting each other prior to this?

You certainly got a fair bit of gang related violence at horse racing prior to the 70's - did it exist at Boxing or Sppedway in the first half of last century?

[FC Silver Fox]

Football violence has decreased in this country simply because of the opposing fan policy of "ne'er the twain shall meet".  The underlying current of almost total intolerence is still present in the game at every club and even in this forum. Just look at the posts that say things like "if away fans of XYZ United/City come in our end of the ground, they won't be there for long." Its still almost inconceivable that opposing factions (and I use the word advisedly) can mix socially or , if they do, then it is welcome surprise that needs to be remarked upon. In my opinion, alcohol is just an enhancer of the problem. If you had a sit anywhere iin the ground policy and kicked a game off at 7am, there'd still be fightiing even if the fans had only been drinking tea, coffee and the omnipresent bovril.

[AlFayedsChequebook]

I would also argue that the very presence of the police changes the mood and puts people on edge.

I honestly believe that the  only people a Police presence puts on edge are those that are likely to cause trouble. I travel through airport security quite often, I have nothing to fear, so why should I fear a police presence? As an air traveler I am treated as though I am a likely shoe-bomber, or that I intend to bring the plane down and kill people, but that is just the way life is, and I accept it, just the same way I accept a Police presence at football matches.

I disagree, when I am at the airport I feel fine, I know I am not a terrorist or going to cause any trouble. But on the way to a football match the Police change the mood for me even though I wouldnt dream of 'kicking off'. I do love police horses though!

[Lighthouse]

It is all a bit late talking about this now. Where were the complaints when Police started to treat fans as if they were going to a Dog Fight.

I remember walking through a line of Police and Dogs while the fans stood back. I was asked why was I breaking the cordon was I not part of the crowd? No I said, I am not part of the crowd.

My late Mum told a Policeman on a Horse to be careful where he put his Horse as he used it for crowd control, while others accepted the pushing and shoving.

So we   are are now told to sit down and shut up? Of coarse we are because you all said ok then. The reason why other sports are treated better is because none of them would put up with it for so long. Treat people like cattle and they behave like cattle.

Ban this and ban that and film this and film that. You all said OK fine, they know what they are doing. What is Freedom when you obey orders. Football fans treated like rubbish because they allow themselves to be.


Nice to have a freedom of choice moan.

[Rambling_Syd_Rumpo]

another thing with RL crowds is they will "police" themselves.If a couple of young lads get mouthy they will  be warned by some of the old heads to behave themselves in "no uncerten terms", that normally does the trick- I think it's a northern thing :008:

[Lighthouse]

another thing with RL crowds is they will "police" themselves.If a couple of young lads get mouthy they will  be warned by some of the old heads to behave themselves in "no uncerten terms", that normally does the trick- I think it's a northern thing :008:

No it's a normal thing. 'Wash your mouth out with soap' was yelled by my Dad to a bunch of Man U
supporters. Oh alright we are going back a few years and yes those were the days that if you carried a knife you were laughed at or called the N word because only those Gentlefolk were percieved to carry knives. But we are too scared to talk to others while allowing the so called authority to boss us about.

Alright no more Sunny Delight for me. :54:

[HatterDon]

I've waited until now before replying so as not to act as if the discussion was over. But


Thanks to everyone for their considered opinions/insights/experiences on this topic. I asked my questions out of pure curiosity, got a variety of responses -- some diametrically opposed -- and all of them were in the spirit of providing information.

Thanks to you all, and if there's more to be said on the subject, please add to the list. This is a REALLY good neighborhood.