the big picture

[ffc1971chris]

we all love this club and I am so frustrated to see my club having the life suck out of it.there is only one issue with the club and its the bromance between jol and his Bulgarian lover.he waves his arms and blames all of his teammates for there lack of talent without any thought to the damage he is doing,this was encapsulated by scott parker guiding the man to mark a player from a corner against Southampton which resulted in a free header and a goal.he should of been dragged of before the restart and made to account for his lack of effort which he displays every week.

i feel our team has lots of ability but when you have only 8 outfield players defending its no wonder our defence is exposed,i cant understand how no one on the pitch has not pointed out that ruiz and berba are just spectators,having wounderful touch and class is not enough when you and in a fight.i don't believe buying more crap will solve anything, its all about attitude and balls.someone needs to confront the players that don't put in a shift.

also making berba captain was I bad idea and highlights how jol was trying to get more out of the lazy pre Madonna.give the armband to the player who has the henry halls to kick him and any other players not putting in the effort up the bum.we all hope that our new coach has seen some of these issues and heaps of things that I don't now about within the dressing room.after getting stuck in to the lazyboys I still believe theres a good team in there somewhere but there need to be some home truths laid out.

i am just a frustrated season ticket holder and this is only my opinion and would love to here other points of view.i wish good luck to the boys against Swansea,3 points please. :026:        

[MJG]

I'm not one for pulling up anyone on spelling etc...but a paragraph would make this a little easier to read.

[ffc1971chris]

Ok i will compose my posts with more care in the future.

[aFFCn_Fan]

I'll take the bait.

I think Berba is a luxury player for us. At Man U, they have enough talent to pass to feet and retain possession, to understand that the pass is going to beat the last man, which is the space where the striker is running. Recently, we haven't had that level of connection. Berba has lost confidence, and is clearly frustrated that there is no service. I think he has taken young Kaca under his wing...because he appreciates that the two could link up well...imagine that a pacy young winger who gets balls in the box. 

We've also suffered from another of Jol's "lovers, not fighters" Ruiz, and actually Bent. None of the three show oodles of what us English fans like: effort. And a team like fulham, with a poor midfield pairing, can't afford that many non-committed players.

We've put too many luxury players and not enough workers on the field at any one time.

I sincerely hope Menelsteen will be the difference to give Berba the attitude adjustment and motivation he needs. To me, Bent is Erik Nevland 2, a super goal scoring sub that you bring on for the last 10-20. Personally, I don't think Ruiz is up to EPL standard.

[Fulham76]

I agree with most of it, Ruiz in particular is just a waste of space & every time he's out on the pitch we're effectively a man down. He's non existent!

Berbatov on the other hand is a lazy, arrogant git but I still want him in the team, purely because he will score if given the chance. As he's done at every club he's played for. But for some reason, Jol has become so negative, it's almost as if he's told the team not to attack, and if we do, it's done unbelievably slowly.

Obviously the entire team needs to show much more effort but I would like to see a Bent / Berbatov front 2 but actually getting some service.

[ffc1971chris]

spot on,dumping berba is not my issue he will provide goals he needs a strong hand on the pitch to stand up to him and if he cannot pick up at dead balls then he needs to stay up front with a fag on the go.i do how ever have one player that i wish did not put the shirt on,Phillip Senderdross,our old pairing of hangerland and hughes where a great pairing and proved this for couple of seasons.How can jol ignore this, that pair never had such a bad goal difference.

[alfie]

spot on,dumping berba is not my issue he will provide goals he needs a strong hand on the pitch to stand up to him and if he cannot pick up at dead balls then he needs to stay up front with a fag on the go.i do how ever have one player that i wish did not put the shirt on,Phillip Senderdross,our old pairing of hangerland and hughes where a great pairing and proved this for couple of seasons.How can jol ignore this, that pair never had such a bad goal difference.

I am assuming you have not seen Hangeland play this season then?. That partnership is long dead.

[Holders]

I'll take the bait as well and disagree with most of the above.

I've come to the conclusion that Berba is totally uninterested in being a team player at all - Soton was a perfect example. I don't think that Bent is a patch on Nevland as an impact sub and I think  what little incisiveness we do have up front comes from Ruiz. I'd like to see Bent with Ruiz behind him. And Ruiz tackles back which Berba can't be arsed to do.

Senderos may make mistakes but so has Hangeland (and Riether) recently. The overwhelming problem with the back 4 (and defending as a team) has been the apparent lack of any worthwhile defensive coaching, particularly at set pieces.

It may be that Hughes is getting a bit long in the tooth. At least Senderos plays with guts - as does Amo, whom I don't blame for that own goal, by the way, it could easily have been an excellent clearance and he was one bright point during the rest of the game.

[ffc1971chris]

if you played the late bobby moore in his prime along side senderdross he would drag him down to his level within a month the guy has no clue as for hughes he surely cant be worse than phillip.give P/S his due he dose come up with the odd good defensive play but in this team at the moment he gets a lot of practice.

the reason the rest of them have started making so many mistakes is due to the nerves running through this team,if you cannot see the mistakes senerdross make since being in the team you must be swiss.he tackles like he is playing rugby and has been lucky not to give away a few pens already this season.

If they could teach Ruiz to grow some nuts he would be a great player but it took him 6 months to win a header when he first arrived,weak.

[Holders]

The nerves running through the team seem to me to stem from the absence of any attempt to defend from the front, thus exposing the back 4 to more attacking play than they should expect to have to contend with. This is due to the team being badly balanced and undisciplined defensively.

You and I have no idea how good Senderos and Hughes are as we don't see them in training or have the opportunity to assess different combinations - it can only be speculation. This season, for me, Hangeland has been the weakest link in the back 4.

I saw Moore play with Lacy, who was dreadful, and no way did he drag Moore down to his level.

[ffc1971chris]

my first post highlights your points about defending from the front and i am in total agreement.As for you point on performance in training i watch and have been watching these guys and there game stats speak volumes and that is were they earn there money. 

since we lost lewington to england we have struggled hopefully Rene can turn thing around. 

[Deanothefulhamfan]

In all honesty I thought having Berbatov as captain would have a positve affect.... I thought he would sort his attitide out and  lead by example with some improved performances.... unfortunatley putting him as captain had the complete reverse affect.

Senderos has not been our worst defender ths season, I actually don't think Amboreita is any better l, but he is still new to the team and the league... Hangeland has been poor as has Riise when they have played.

[Holders]

my first post highlights your points about defending from the front and i am in total agreement.As for you point on performance in training i watch and have been watching these guys and there game stats speak volumes and that is were they earn there money. 

since we lost lewington to england we have struggled hopefully Rene can turn thing around. 

Do you see them in training? That's the only way to compare them objectively.

Jol must see something in Senderos that he does not see in Hughes. In the early part of the season, he certainly seemed more inclined to bring the ball out of defence but any advantage in that has been lost in the general disorganisation and absence of any defensive shape. 4 or 5 training sessions isn't enough to turn that around - but it's a start.

[nose]

Actually we all know (well most of us anyway) that the headline post is more or less correct.

Some of us have been saying pretty much the same for ages and ages

I hope the introduction of the new coach helps and we turn opur fortunes around, but in my heart I know we have the wrong manager and he really should have been gone over a year ago. That is the begining and the end of our problems. A new man doesn't guarantee success but Jol certain is a very big negative influence.

[Logicalman]

if you played the late bobby moore in his prime along side senderdross he would drag him down to his level within a month the guy has no clue as for hughes he surely cant be worse than phillip.give P/S his due he dose come up with the odd good defensive play but in this team at the moment he gets a lot of practice.

Sorry to disagree, but I don't think Senderos had anything to do with Helgas current (as for the past 6 months) form. Helga has lost whatever it was that made him our central strength, he consistently fouls in the area (and sooner or later the refs WILL pick up on this and start awarding pens), he is afraid of the big tackles, when a player is lining up a shot, instead of attacking the ball, he simply turns his back and sticks out a hopeful leg, and he cannot seem to jump any longer. All-in-all, he lacks confidence, consistency and a presence in the central defence, and Jols pathetic insistence on giving him the captains armband each week just shows that his manager has lost the plot as well.

[The Old Count]

We should wipe the slate clean on all the players and see how they get on with Rene.

It's easy to create scapegoats. However there is a bigger picture.  Players are being played out of position and asked to do things that are not part of their natural game.

For example: It will be interesting to see how Senderos does when not having to compensate for Hangerland wandering off and leaving to much space between them. Also, Senderos is often dropped in it when exposed because of the enormous gap between midfield and defence that is particularly evident in front of him.

So could we please just ease off slagging our players and see where we go over the next few weeks.

[ffc1971chris]

i respect your view but you mention breda's lack of form over last few months,this coincides with senderdross inclusion in the side as they should be a partnership this is no surprise that pairing up with such a bad footballer has effected his performance.he has been a fantastic player for us for over 5 years only since ancle fester has been paired with him has his form dropped so much.

[TonyGilroy]

i respect your view but you mention breda's lack of form over last few months,this coincides with senderdross inclusion in the side as they should be a partnership this is no surprise that pairing up with such a bad footballer has effected his performance.he has been a fantastic player for us for over 5 years only since ancle fester has been paired with him has his form dropped so much.

And since he damaged his back and Jol decided that the defence didn't need cover from midfield.

Apart from that it's all the fault of Senderos.

[ffc1971chris]

your spot on lets see how we go,com on you whites. 049:gif

[Forever Fulham]

I think Holders is right on the money here.  Good discussion.