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Gold cup

Started by clintclintdeuce, June 07, 2011, 11:31:17 PM

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SoCalJoe

Looking forward to be among the 10-15K US fans making some noise for the "home" team. Thankfully my friend convinced me to get the cheap general admission tix early (after the US & El Tri advanced those seats went in a flash), and now you can only go thru an agency and shell out $160 a seat. The Rose Bowl is one of the greatest places to tailgate (been to many a UCLA game), we're going w/a caravan that will consist of approximately 15 El Tri fans and 3 or 4 US fans. Haven't been to the Rose Bowl for a footy match since the 94' WC and can't wait for what should be a riveting atmosphere.
You can observe a lot by just watching.

YankeeJim

Joe, I'll look for you on the TV. Bring home the throphy. I don't want to have to listen to my workmates blabbing until WC qualifying starts. They still think their win last time around against the scrubs was a worthy win.  :59: to them!
Its not that I could and others couldn't.
Its that I did and others didn't.

Mr. F

Bradley GOAL! Great header!


Adu looking fantastic again too.


The Bronsons

2.50 am - it's a good game but I may have to go to bed. Salcido's off, so go DEMPSEY, go USA!!!!

HatterDon

2-2 -- Salcido gimped off. We lost Cherundolo who has been our best defender AND our best attacker. Our central defenders are custom made to play against big strong aerial attackers. Dos Santos and Chicharito are tiny fast little gits and we're getting eaten alive.

Note to Della Camera: Pay attention to the game. When an attacker mis-kicks a ball and it squibs out of bounds, the US doesn't get possession because of the attacker being off side. What a maroon. Also, Lichaj is a RB playing LB because (a) Cherundolo is better and (b) if Bornstein is the only LB in your squad, you're fekked. So, when Lichaj moves to RB, that's an upgrade for him. Della Camera keeps pinging on him for playing out of position on the right, but still hammers him for giving up possession on the left.

Two things at the half:

1. Mexico are vulnerable to quick passing. Adu, Dempsey, and Donovan are making them look like fools.

2. There's a reason Old Red Nose starts Hernandez instead of Berbatov.

Praying for 3-2; won't be surprised at 2-4
"As long as there is light, I will sing." -- Juana, la Cubana

www.facebook/dphvocalease
www.facebook/sellersandhymel

Mr. F

Yea unless we can figure out how to defend, Mexico is not done scoring.

Agree about the quick passing. Love what Dempsey, Donovan and Adu are doing out there.


Mr. F

Ugh, not looking good.

That chip shot from Dos Santos was unbelievable. Tim Howard looking like he could kill someone right now.

jarv

Shame! USA gave it everything. Great game though :clap_hands:

HatterDon

Mexico not only outplayed us, they out disciplined us. They're just better than we are.

Here's a thought about 2014 -- they just kicked our young asses WITHOUT Carlos Vela.

We don't have a left-footed LB, and we don't have a replacement for Bocanegra yet. We're fine with midfielders, and I like Agudelo, Davies, Herculez, and Jozy going forward at striker, but in defense, we have Goodsen at CB, Lichaj and Chandler at RB and nobody else at CB or LB. We need to find someone quick and strong in defense. I'm not conviced about what I've seen at those positions for USA.
"As long as there is light, I will sing." -- Juana, la Cubana

www.facebook/dphvocalease
www.facebook/sellersandhymel


timmyg

Past 24 Months for Dempsey: 2nd place in Confederations Cup, Europa League, and now Gold Cup.

Ouch.
"Not everybody's the perfect person in the world. I mean everyone kills people, murders people, steals from you, steals from me, whatever." -- Terrelle Pryor, on Michael Vick

timmyg

Sorry for another post, but thought that Dempsey stat deserved its own.

It's probably no coincidence that Mexico decided to go with youthful coach (José Manuel de la Torre is just 45, but looked to me in his mid 30s) to head their youthful rebirth. And they just won a trophy (and have yet to lose a match) so far in his short stint.

Well, we're in dire need of a youthful rebirth ourselves as two years ago our JV team got shelled 5-0, and today could have been that same GA in all honesty. Not saying Bradley isn't the guy (okay, yes I am, but whatever. I accept it but still maintain little faith), but I hope he, and the USSF, realize how big, and how unique, of a rebuild is needed. Maybe giving someone like Jesse Marsch a job, who has no coaching or nat'l experience, was a mistake. As was starting Freddy Adu (who plays in such an obscure bush league that most amazingly thorough footy sites don't even track it) in a Final a big no-no.

(p.s., Don, you are not allowed to bring up that Germanic fella from Los Angeles).
"Not everybody's the perfect person in the world. I mean everyone kills people, murders people, steals from you, steals from me, whatever." -- Terrelle Pryor, on Michael Vick

Logicalman

timmyg,

I think you are perfectly correct in your assessment, a change is needed before the qual rounds for 2014, and I hope Bradley has the sense to step aside.

It was not just the choice of players, it was the (apparent) rotation and substitution methods. We can all agree that Jozy was unlucky in the QF, and had to come off, but starting with 1 striker from 3 in the front line each time just seems madness, especially given that Bradley's tactics were predominantly going forward.

Front men starting and sub stats for last 3 rounds.

S. Klještan (25)(M)(Anderlecht)
A. Bedoya (24)(M)(Örebro)
J. Altidore (21)(F)(Bursaspor)
J. Agudelo (18)(F)(Red Bulls)
F. Adu (22)(F)(Çaykur Rizespor)
L. Donovan (29)(M)(Galaxy)

QF S. Klještan / A. Bedoya (L. Donovan)/J. Altidore (J. Agudelo)
SF S. Klještan / A. Bedoya / J. Agudelo (F. Adu)
F  A. Bedoya (J. Agudelo) / L. Donovan / F. Adu (S. Klještan)

The age of this forward line does not appear to be that advanced (23 for all above, 22 if you take out the oldest), though as you pointed out so delicately, their playing level experience could be questionable.

I was disappointed to see that Bradley jnr was committing himself too far forward too many times, and then proving to all that watched why he is no more a potent forward than our very own helga  (yep, even helga nuts them in from corners - but he is def not a forward in any shape or form). Too many times he was seen wandering around too far forward, fluffing his lines and forgetting he's a midfielder and that means getting back to help the back 4 is a prime directive, and not goal hunting.

Overall, the US were taught a lesson last night in how to play attacking football without leaving the midfield too exposed, and the need to bring on fresh front-men to replace the aging and tired ones.

Bradley snr has done a job, overall not a bad one, and now its time to move on. The tactics are stale, unimaginative and predictable after the first 15 minutes by any team worth it's salt.



jarv

Agree with prior comments about finding younger players but where are they? U.S. problem is not so different to many other nations. The production line.
Most young Americans play either in MLS or some of the more obcsure leagues in Europe, from Scandinavia to Turkey. This is positive but hardly training ground for playing against the best. Bocanegra still looks like the best to offer but is definitely slowingdown now (was he ever quick?).
College is not the place. It is poor "soccer" often coached by people who have been there for years with limited knowledge. As far as preparing the players as professionals, no knowledge, nor is it a priority.

SoCalJoe

Timmyg, I'm by no means ready to say he's back on the team permanently, or even that he'll ever salvage his career, and yes he's playing in the turkish wilderness, but Adu from my view in the upper region of the Rose Bowl yesterday was up to the challenge, instrumental for the 2 goals, and whose quickness gave Mexico major problems. Starting him was the proper move given the dearth of ability on the bench and was easily the motm for the US.

Great entertainment and day out at a true American Beauty in the Rose Bowl, just wish Clint's smash off the underneath of the crossbar had gone in to make it 3-3. However, the better team won on the day. For me the telling point was in the 11th minute when the only quality defender we have had to be subbed out for...'OH NO, NOT BORNSTEIN, WE'RE F@$#ED!!'.
You can observe a lot by just watching.

clintclintdeuce

You shouldnt be able to coach the USMNT if you blow a 2-0 lead to mexico. End of really.
The Dude abides.


timmyg

Quote from: SoCalJoe on June 26, 2011, 06:40:18 PM
Timmyg, I'm by no means ready to say he's back on the team permanently, or even that he'll ever salvage his career, and yes he's playing in the turkish wilderness, but Adu from my view in the upper region of the Rose Bowl yesterday was up to the challenge, instrumental for the 2 goals, and whose quickness gave Mexico major problems. Starting him was the proper move given the dearth of ability on the bench and was easily the motm for the US.

Good points SoCal. What is seen on TV and in person are often different.

But the problem with Adu is that he's a poor, poor man's Arshavin. He has quickness and vision, but he doesn't do well off the ball and can't hold possession. Close him down and be physical, and he's subsequently taken out of the game. If he's good at one thing, it's being a late sub where he can be afforded a bit more freedom to roam. He was a non-factor after 25 or so minutes.

So, considering those facts, why he was included in the First XI yesterday I just don't know.
"Not everybody's the perfect person in the world. I mean everyone kills people, murders people, steals from you, steals from me, whatever." -- Terrelle Pryor, on Michael Vick

YankeeJim

Tim I totaly agree with you. Adu can be a quality attacking sub but 90 minutes, no way. He doesn't defend & quite honestly, I question his heart. He just disappears for long periods of play.

The issue is simply that Bradley is not a good enough evaluator of talent to coach a national team. Bornstein played himself off the Nats 3 years ago, played almost no time at Tigras in the Mexican league yet still makes the roster and is subbed in when he hasn't played a moment in the entire tournament.  I'm convinced that the subs in the previous matches were simply luck. You could have been blinded by the sun shinning off the grins of the Mexican players when Bradley put Borenstien in. Sheer stupidity. You take a non talent and put him in and take a young talent and put him out of position. That's the way to do it, weaken two positions.  :035:

That AND CONCACROOKS had the awards ceremony totaly ion Spanish.  :031: :035:  :59:
FIRE BOB NOW!



Its not that I could and others couldn't.
Its that I did and others didn't.

YankeeJim

Quote from: YankeeJim on June 08, 2011, 02:12:00 AM
I think there is more of a chance of us not getting to the Mexicants then there is of us beating them. Our back line is just crap, no striker and no coach. Tell me, pray tell, why CD9 isn't even on the roster?  :012:

My notation is the first I made in this thead. CD9 is supposed to be hurt but we put Gooch on the roster and he's hurt. He even played.  Yet in the end, we get to see Borenstein blow it again, He must be doing the Monica for Baldy.

Fire Bob now
Its not that I could and others couldn't.
Its that I did and others didn't.


RidgeRider

Quote from: HatterDon on June 26, 2011, 04:06:45 AM
Mexico not only outplayed us, they out disciplined us. They're just better than we are.

Here's a thought about 2014 -- they just kicked our young asses WITHOUT Carlos Vela.

We don't have a left-footed LB, and we don't have a replacement for Bocanegra yet. We're fine with midfielders, and I like Agudelo, Davies, Herculez, and Jozy going forward at striker, but in defense, we have Goodsen at CB, Lichaj and Chandler at RB and nobody else at CB or LB. We need to find someone quick and strong in defense. I'm not conviced about what I've seen at those positions for USA.

I completely agree. They're frontmen, Dos Santos, Berrera, and Hernandez could run with the ball at their feet faster than our defenders could just run. Counters created so much panic because of the speed and skill they possessed that composure came into question of our back four.

To beat teams like this, we need speedier backs.

Jones is a waste of space. He lacks and I was really disappointed in lack of defensive decision making. Very poor.

Losing Cherundolo was the back breaker in my mind.

Very impressed with Dos Santos, Berrera and Hernandez.

RidgeRider

#119
Quote from: Logicalman on June 26, 2011, 12:13:53 PM

Bradley snr has done a job, overall not a bad one, and now its time to move on. The tactics are stale, unimaginative and predictable after the first 15 minutes by any team worth it's salt.



I think this just about sums it up for me. Why he didn't just park the bus after going up 2-0 is beyond me.