This is scandalous

[finnster01]

...the problem for Ashwater Press is that they don't have an outlet in the Putney / Hammersmith region to sell their books. They do send books out, but the books are heavy and postal costs these days are ridiculous; so for Ashwater Press to continue making books the Fulham fans actually want they need such an outlet (or outlets) so that they make enough money to publish more books. Believe me Ken and Martin make little money out of their books, what they do is very much altruistic in putting their combined memories and possessions on show for the future Fulham fans.

Ideally somewhere like the Bricklayers Arms or the Coat & Badge or the Old Suffolk Punch or local newsagents that could sell their books on match days to Fulham fans - I'm sure as hell I would advertise their places of business on here if they did, the upturn in trade would be mutually beneficial. There is the shop near the tube station next to the Eight Bells that sells their books but that is tiny and not everyone could detour there.

Any ideas..?

I suggest try social networking sites.

I had a guy in my office last week showing me lots of research on how outreach increases by 10% if you get your stuff on twitter. Now I don't know if that is 100% correct for sure but the data I saw was rather convincing. Enough for me to consider using that as an additional distribution channel and my company doesn't even do any goods but consulting services.

At the end of the day, the Fulham shop is just another distribution channel, and a very in-effective one on top. There are other and better ways. That does not stop my blood to boil over the fact that these gents are being shafted by the club

[Chopper]

Definitely worth everyone writing to or emailing the club. Probably attention Sarah Brookes. Getting their books in the club shop would massively increase their potential sales, anywhere else would not pick up the casual buyer.

[finnster01]

Definitely worth everyone writing to or emailing the club. Probably attention Sarah Brookes. Getting their books in the club shop would massively increase their potential sales, anywhere else would not pick up the casual buyer.

Don't underestimate the power of the internet. Youll be surprised. Twitter is now worth 7 billion USD.


And Sarah Brookes should pay notice too because that is her job, and I hope not for long.

[Logicalman]

What has the club been saying about this? Obviously it is the version of Ashwater Press and they are free to interpret events as they want (not claiming they are liars or something). I would like to hear the story from the club's side before making up my mind.

from the Ashwaterpress email, it appears that the club aren't saying anything, and thats part of the problem if the club won't tell Ashwater what they need to do to enable their books to be sold in the club shop how can they comply?

however true Fulham fans don't want books about the club, they only want Michael Jackson tatt memorabilia

Yes, but as it is business here, we don't anything about the percentage which goes to Fulham, the conditions of a potential contract, etc. etc. Say - and I am far from claiming this - that Ashwater wants to retain 80 % of the sales of the book whereas Fulham only gets 20 % % and an obligation to put the books in the shop, that might not be interesting for the club...

Sipwell,
You are perfectly correct in what you say, though such conditions require some level of negotiation and, from the one-sided communique we have seen thus far, unless Fulham respond to the initial proposal by Ashwater, then there are no negotiations as such, as would be normal business-like.
As you rightly point out, we have one side of the discussion, though without Fulham providing any response that we know of, it's a little difficult not to fall on the side of Ashwater.

Along with others from this place, I too have written to the club today asking them to verify the information and appealing on behalf of Ashwater Press for them to be considered a trading partner. I await any response, which the club are usually good at, as others do.

[Logicalman]

The club has responded to my email requesting further information.

The reply was very informative and basically asked that before making judgements on the quality of the material being considered by Derby Books, that fans wait and see what does appear. The reasons for going with Derby Books was for commercial value. They are fully aware that some fans are not happy and will respond if you ask.

Personally I would still look to whether Ashwater can do a deal with Derby Books and use them as the conduit to the Fulham shops.

[Peabody]

Received from FFC. Judge for yourselves

Thanks for your email Bill



To clarify our position, last Autumn we did begin a tender process for official publications and my understanding is that our Retail General Manager met with Ashwater at the time, specifically to discuss this. After this process had run its course, we ultimately reached an agreement with Derby Books. As Ken & Martin state in their email, all this was finalised in the days that followed the closing match of the 10/11 season against Arsenal.



I'm afraid I can't reveal the specifics of the contract that we've entered into. Sufficed to say, however, for a whole host of reasons we feel that the Derby Books offer represents the best option available to us at this time. In spite of this, I do acknowledge that there remains a strong niche following for the Ashwater publications and it certainly isn't our intention to undermine the fine work that they have done.



The license we have entered into affords Derby Books the right to stock all the titles in our official range. To this end, there are now a number of exciting projects in development. We are utilising a rich variety of sources and we hope that our fans will be even-handed enough to wait and see the range for themselves before drawing any conclusions as to its quality. We have every confidence that these publications will grow to represent a successful range that will be enjoyed by the vast majority of our fans.



Over the years we have made every effort to support Ashwater and their titles. In the last year we did also agree to stock a further two publications and while there is no doubting the meticulous level of research and effort that went into these books, it's fair to say that they didn't sell in high volumes at our stores. There were other reasons why it wouldn't have been prudent of us to stock their Haynes title, although I do understand that this went on to sell well through other outlets.



When I first started here at the Club (which was midway through the 2007/08 season) we used to receive a steady stream of correspondence from fans who had significant concerns over the Club's retail operation. It's fair to say that in the period since we have taken major steps to address this, and a large amount of investment has been made to enhance our stores, our suppliers, our product range and our service. We do carefully monitor feedback and from all that we can discern the overall perception of our retail offer has vastly improved. This has certainly been reflected in sales, and we will continue to strive to produce a high quality range that can be enjoyed by everyone with an interest and passion for our Club.



We do, of course, wish Ashwater every success with their future endeavours.



Kind regards



Tommy Guthrie

Supporter Relations Manager

[WhiteJC]

I don't understand this bit...

The license we have entered into affords Derby Books the right to stock all the titles in our official range. To this end, there are now a number of exciting projects in development. We are utilising a rich variety of sources and we hope that our fans will be even-handed enough to wait and see the range for themselves before drawing any conclusions as to its quality. We have every confidence that these publications will grow to represent a successful range that will be enjoyed by the vast majority of our fans.

are we (the club) selling Derby books, or are Derby books selling Fulham products?
are the club "writing" their own books?

[The Equalizer]

I don't understand this bit...

The license we have entered into affords Derby Books the right to stock all the titles in our official range. To this end, there are now a number of exciting projects in development. We are utilising a rich variety of sources and we hope that our fans will be even-handed enough to wait and see the range for themselves before drawing any conclusions as to its quality. We have every confidence that these publications will grow to represent a successful range that will be enjoyed by the vast majority of our fans.

are we (the club) selling Derby books, or are Derby books selling Fulham products?
are the club "writing" their own books?

It looks like DB Publishing will be publishing existing Fulham titles as well as creating new titles. I guess FFC will provide the words and pictures and DB will do the rest.

I think this would be a good opportunity for Ken Coton to withdraw use of any of his images from the club. There must be tonnes of club products which have used his pictures, he should pull the plug on them and get them to take their own pictures of Johnny Haynes from back in the day...

[CorkedHat]

I don't understand this bit...

The license we have entered into affords Derby Books the right to stock all the titles in our official range. To this end, there are now a number of exciting projects in development. We are utilising a rich variety of sources and we hope that our fans will be even-handed enough to wait and see the range for themselves before drawing any conclusions as to its quality. We have every confidence that these publications will grow to represent a successful range that will be enjoyed by the vast majority of our fans.

are we (the club) selling Derby books, or are Derby books selling Fulham products?
are the club "writing" their own books?

It looks like DB Publishing will be publishing existing Fulham titles as well as creating new titles. I guess FFC will provide the words and pictures and DB will do the rest.

I think this would be a good opportunity for Ken Coton to withdraw use of any of his images from the club. There must be tonnes of club products which have used his pictures, he should pull the plug on them and get them to take their own pictures of Johnny Haynes from back in the day...

Depends on who owns the copyright. If Fulham employed Ken to take photos then they belong to Fulham

[The Equalizer]

I don't understand this bit...

The license we have entered into affords Derby Books the right to stock all the titles in our official range. To this end, there are now a number of exciting projects in development. We are utilising a rich variety of sources and we hope that our fans will be even-handed enough to wait and see the range for themselves before drawing any conclusions as to its quality. We have every confidence that these publications will grow to represent a successful range that will be enjoyed by the vast majority of our fans.

are we (the club) selling Derby books, or are Derby books selling Fulham products?
are the club "writing" their own books?

It looks like DB Publishing will be publishing existing Fulham titles as well as creating new titles. I guess FFC will provide the words and pictures and DB will do the rest.

I think this would be a good opportunity for Ken Coton to withdraw use of any of his images from the club. There must be tonnes of club products which have used his pictures, he should pull the plug on them and get them to take their own pictures of Johnny Haynes from back in the day...

Depends on who owns the copyright. If Fulham employed Ken to take photos then they belong to Fulham

Indeed mate, but based on the amount of publications that Ashwater have done with his pictures, I'm sure that the club would have used some of those. In this instance I'd assume that Ken owns the copyright on them otherwise he'll be licensing them from the club. Which would curtail the end of Ashwater anyway.

[epsomraver]

While I share the frustration, I don't share the shock. Fuham have never been very bright when it comes to selling itself. Nowadays even less so. There can be no logical reason why a company who have consistantly produced quality products should be treated this way. But the times are simply changing.

Fans are flogged rubbish. tradition is forgotten, the past never existed. It is almost as if the club are too big to care. Too many cooks me thinks. In the short term that may be fine. But in the long term, the history, the stories, the memories are all that is left. Without them you have a husk of a company, not the heart of a club.

Next time a disaster approaches like merges with other grounds and clubs. Those that care will have been forgotten. Those that don't will feel very lonely.

I totally agree, well said.

[Logicalman]

Depends on who owns the copyright. If Fulham employed Ken to take photos then they belong to Fulham

Indeed mate, but based on the amount of publications that Ashwater have done with his pictures, I'm sure that the club would have used some of those. In this instance I'd assume that Ken owns the copyright on them otherwise he'll be licensing them from the club. Which would curtail the end of Ashwater anyway.

Interesting question. Perhaps Ken was contracted by the club the to take pictures, of which the club paid for the rights to use them, though Ken maintains the copyright. In that sense, then the club might well be able to use and reuse those they have as well as Ashwater Press.

Either way, it is a sad day for all parties (the club, Ashwater Press and the fans) alike that it has come down to this. Hopefully Ken & Co will be able to survive with the lack of 'official' outlets as the publications are, perhaps, the most informative about Fulham FC we will ever see. I know that I continually refer to them for facts and figures about the club.

The email Peabody presented is the same as was sent to me by way of reply, so it looks like they have had more than the odd request for information on this issue.

[LBNo11]

...A well written reply by Tommy who is a decent employee, it won't go into detail as expected, but this is the sentence that I would like explained "There were other reasons why it wouldn't have been prudent of us to stock their Haynes title, although I do understand that this went on to sell well through other outlets".

Hopefully it has nothing to do with the recently appointed director Dennis Turner trying to write a book about Johnny Haynes with the club's approval, or their view that in Ken and Martins' book that a family member had not been consulted. Still we will never know the truth...

[LBNo11]

...would anybody who has written to the club regarding this matter please send me a copy of your letter, either via a pm or e-mail - thank you...

[Chopper]

LB I've emailed you a copy of my letter.

[LBNo11]

LB I've emailed you a copy of my letter.

...got it last night, thanks - and thank you Peabody, any more would be appreciated - thanks in anticipation...