Sunderland

[Mr Fulham]

Bruce wanted to sell Bent, Mr Hatter.
It was an excellent bit of business for the whole club.
Non the less, their overall concept is a bit weird - signing 15 players every transfer window doesn't help your squad in the long term.

And you know this, how?

Because it made sense for him. The offer was too good to turn down and sadly, football is business in the first place. Yes, he would've scored many goals for them, but these goals wouldn't have given Sunderland 22m in return.

My agency friend confirmed that Bruce wanted to sell Bent because he wanted to strenghten the squad in the long term with younger and cheaper players.

[Yarden]

They have wasted a lot of money on poo players as usual. Wouldn`t want any of their signings.

[finnster01]

They have wasted a lot of money on sh1t players as usual. Wouldn`t want any of their signings.

Maybe. But if someone had told me in March that come mid July we would have a new manager and only have signed a second division goal keeper from Hungary on top of letting a bunch of players go despite another Europa run, I'd say you were pulling my leg.  :046:

[Ordar]

None of those players would get in our first team. I think that says more about Sunderlands lack of quality rather than our lack of ambition. I'd rather be linked with Riise, Defoe and Bendtner than have signed that bunch of dross...

[MJG]

if you throw enough mud at the wall some might stick. If even half of those players do well for him he would have had a result.

[simplyfulham]

how about the fact that each of those players are hardly standout from the rest of their squad. They're average, like everybody below 6th or 7th place. I'd only start to worry if they went and bought a really top class player to bridge the gap

Fair enough if you feel those players are average.

We should probably play the game where we name the Fulham XI that started the Europa league final and see where they were 2years previously.

There would be a strong case for most outsiders to claim that XI was 'average'..

[finnster01]

how about the fact that each of those players are hardly standout from the rest of their squad. They're average, like everybody below 6th or 7th place. I'd only start to worry if they went and bought a really top class player to bridge the gap

Fair enough if you feel those players are average.

We should probably play the game where we name the Fulham XI that started the Europa league final and see where they were 2years previously.

There would be a strong case for most outsiders to claim that XI was 'average'..

But lets not forget Jol has already secured a top second division goalie from Hungary and plans to lend out an England squad one.

I am very impressed with our transfer movements this summer. It has quality written all over it  :020:

[TonyGilroy]

The better question is how much care and thought has gone into Sunderland's recruitment. For me it seems to be a selection of decent but hardly outstanding pros who happened to be available.

I'm happier with Jol assessing our squad and carefully deciding what we need. In my opinion there's very little strengthening needed for the first team but a need for a group of younger recruits capable of challenging for a place.

Currently Jol is clearly having a look at the younger players we have and making a judgement.

There's still a month until our first league game and no matter what we read we have no idea who we're considering or talking to.

[richie17]

how about the fact that each of those players are hardly standout from the rest of their squad. They're average, like everybody below 6th or 7th place. I'd only start to worry if they went and bought a really top class player to bridge the gap

Fair enough if you feel those players are average.

We should probably play the game where we name the Fulham XI that started the Europa league final and see where they were 2years previously.

There would be a strong case for most outsiders to claim that XI was 'average'..

It's a good point, but only holds if you think Steve Bruce has the ability to make a team greater than the sum of its parts as Hodgson did.  I don't think that's been proven either way.

I suspect he's trying to go a bit more for character.  The Sunderland sides of recent iterations haven't had any real identity.  At least by signing o'shea and brown he has a couple of players in key positions who know how to win and will generally do the right thing more often than not.  They're difficult contracts to justify longer term but that's the price he had to pay; he'll worry about it later.  In the meantime it should stiffen the side quite nicely.

Add in Vaughan and Gardner in midfield and the promise (and work rate) of Wickham up front and Bruce is either going to end up with the next Birmingham City or a solid, functional side that has a bit more about it.  If he can put a football team together - I don't think he can - it might be quite tasty, but I can imagine a solid team that doesn't score many goals next year, with relegation a possibility.

[TonyGilroy]

how about the fact that each of those players are hardly standout from the rest of their squad. They're average, like everybody below 6th or 7th place. I'd only start to worry if they went and bought a really top class player to bridge the gap

Fair enough if you feel those players are average.

We should probably play the game where we name the Fulham XI that started the Europa league final and see where they were 2years previously.

There would be a strong case for most outsiders to claim that XI was 'average'..

But lets not forget Jol has already secured a top second division goalie from Hungary and plans to lend out an England squad one.

I am very impressed with our transfer movements this summer. It has quality written all over it  :020:

The Hungarian sits on the bench.

Stockdale plays for Leeds and is on 24 hour recall should we need him.

[simplyfulham]

how about the fact that each of those players are hardly standout from the rest of their squad. They're average, like everybody below 6th or 7th place. I'd only start to worry if they went and bought a really top class player to bridge the gap

Fair enough if you feel those players are average.

We should probably play the game where we name the Fulham XI that started the Europa league final and see where they were 2years previously.

There would be a strong case for most outsiders to claim that XI was 'average'..

It's a good point, but only holds if you think Steve Bruce has the ability to make a team greater than the sum of its parts as Hodgson did.  I don't think that's been proven either way.

I suspect he's trying to go a bit more for character.  The Sunderland sides of recent iterations haven't had any real identity.  At least by signing o'shea and brown he has a couple of players in key positions who know how to win and will generally do the right thing more often than not.  They're difficult contracts to justify longer term but that's the price he had to pay; he'll worry about it later.  In the meantime it should stiffen the side quite nicely.

Add in Vaughan and Gardner in midfield and the promise (and work rate) of Wickham up front and Bruce is either going to end up with the next Birmingham City or a solid, functional side that has a bit more about it.  If he can put a football team together - I don't think he can - it might be quite tasty, but I can imagine a solid team that doesn't score many goals next year, with relegation a possibility.

That's a really good shout.

Ok we're probably not about to witness the birth of one touh football in the north east but relegation is a bit harsh. In Gyan and Larsson they have some dent attacking talent.

[HatterDon]

There seems to be a complete lack of respect for Bruce and his ability to manage on this site ... and I'm not sure why. Just a few seasons back Birmingham City fired him believing that a "name" manager would make Yeung buy the club. It didn't and Bruce went to manage a significantly weaker club in Wigan. What happened? City were relegated and Wigan weren't. What impressed me most about Bruce in Wigan was how he rehabilitated Titus Bramble. The player went from consensus "worst in the Prem" at Newcastle to on the fringes of an England call up under Bruce.

As for him "wanting to get rid of Bent so he could buy younger players" last season, that sounds more like a front office motive. Bruce had Sunderland challenging for Europe before they sold more than half their league goals to a team that would be directly competing with them for that status. NO gaffer wants that. It was a wage cutting/cash infusion move. That's what a board does, not a manager.

Don't hate the playah, hate the game.

[timmyg]

Unfortunately Don his work with Wigan and City are appearing to be his glass ceiling. His move to Sunderland was supposed to be a step up for himself and that club, but they're going nowhere.

Look at the turnaround at the club: so far this transfer window, at just July 12, 10 players in, 7 out. Last year (including winter) it was 9 in, 8 out. Two years ago, 10 in, 9 out. His predecessor Roy Keane was worse, so you'd think he'd at least attempt some roster stability, no?

And the results: 13th his first year, 10th the second. (This for a club that should be fighting for Europa?) Only one FA Cup win, with an embarrassing defeat to Notts County this past January. Little to mention in the Carling Cup.

Football365 had some very poignant writeups about Sunderland and Bruce this past season. If their website didn't totally suck, I'd post some really good ones but this should do:

Steve 'Bread Buttered' Bruce

An interesting reaction to a last-minute winner, no? Whereas the standard response would have been to celebrate with his staff or applaud his players, Bruce's instinct was to turn his back to the field of play and fist pump in the direction of the stands. Perhaps he had a family member in sight. Or perhaps it was a member of the Sunderland hierarchy. If so, it may not be such a wonder how a manager of such modest achievement has enjoyed such a prolonged and multi-clubbed career.

And this:

Sunderland

The good news is that if West Brom are safe on 39 points, Sunderland are probably also out of realistic danger on 38. They also have a relatively easy run-in to finish the season with: Birmingham (a), Wigan (h), Fulham (h), Bolton (a), Wolves (h), West Ham (a). At some point over the next five weeks, they will surely collect the handful of points still required to be absolutely sure of safety.

Yet the avoidance of relegation will hardly be much of a cause for celebration at a club that began the year in sixth position amid talk of qualifying for Europe. They have collapsed and there is nothing edifying about a collapse. Injuries have conspired against them and the sale of Darren Bent set them on a tailspin from which there has been no recovery, but their failure to muster any sort of positive response to their travails bodes badly for the future. The best of Sunderland's time in the Premier League might already be in the distant past.

Steve Bruce

If he wasn't a successful player, would he still be a Premier League manager? And if the correlating relevance of a successful playing career to a career in management cannot be established, then why is he still in a job?

[RidgeRider]

Unfortunately Don his work with Wigan and City are appearing to be his glass ceiling. His move to Sunderland was supposed to be a step up for himself and that club, but they're going nowhere.

Look at the turnaround at the club: so far this transfer window, at just July 12, 10 players in, 7 out. Last year (including winter) it was 9 in, 8 out. Two years ago, 10 in, 9 out. His predecessor Roy Keane was worse, so you'd think he'd at least attempt some roster stability, no?

And the results: 13th his first year, 10th the second. (This for a club that should be fighting for Europa?) Only one FA Cup win, with an embarrassing defeat to Notts County this past January. Little to mention in the Carling Cup.

Football365 had some very poignant writeups about Sunderland and Bruce this past season. If their website didn't totally suck, I'd post some really good ones but this should do:

Steve 'Bread Buttered' Bruce

An interesting reaction to a last-minute winner, no? Whereas the standard response would have been to celebrate with his staff or applaud his players, Bruce's instinct was to turn his back to the field of play and fist pump in the direction of the stands. Perhaps he had a family member in sight. Or perhaps it was a member of the Sunderland hierarchy. If so, it may not be such a wonder how a manager of such modest achievement has enjoyed such a prolonged and multi-clubbed career.

And this:

Sunderland

The good news is that if West Brom are safe on 39 points, Sunderland are probably also out of realistic danger on 38. They also have a relatively easy run-in to finish the season with: Birmingham (a), Wigan (h), Fulham (h), Bolton (a), Wolves (h), West Ham (a). At some point over the next five weeks, they will surely collect the handful of points still required to be absolutely sure of safety.

Yet the avoidance of relegation will hardly be much of a cause for celebration at a club that began the year in sixth position amid talk of qualifying for Europe. They have collapsed and there is nothing edifying about a collapse. Injuries have conspired against them and the sale of Darren Bent set them on a tailspin from which there has been no recovery, but their failure to muster any sort of positive response to their travails bodes badly for the future. The best of Sunderland's time in the Premier League might already be in the distant past.

Steve Bruce

If he wasn't a successful player, would he still be a Premier League manager? And if the correlating relevance of a successful playing career to a career in management cannot be established, then why is he still in a job?

Excellent post Timmy. Makes a pretty compelling case against Bruce and Sunderland for allowing such massive turnover over the past 5 years with little to show for it. Not much building for the future, just switching out players.

[Burt]

I think Bruce is a solid manager and he has made some shrewd signings in quite a slack transfer market.

I don't think either he or the signings made are going to make Sunderland a force to be reckoned with, but they could realistically have the same expectations as us next season (excluding the European journey, that is!) i.e. never in danger of relegation, and a good cup run.

[TonyGilroy]

He's recruiting virtually a full team of players every summer.

That means that last summers lot can't have been too impressive and/or that he doesn't really know what he wants and have the ability to build a team as opposed to throwing decent players together and seeing what happens.

[richie17]

exactly. If you were to describe "what would a manager who doesn't know what he's doing with transfers look like?" this would be it. Coupled with Roy Keane's similar approach and Sunderland fans are probably desperate for period of stability.

[HatterDon]

Excellent post Timmy. Makes a pretty compelling case against Bruce and Sunderland for allowing such massive turnover over the past 5 years with little to show for it. Not much building for the future, just switching out players.

It WOULD be compelling -- if only Bruce had been managing Sunderland for those five years. Truth is, of course, that he's only managed two seasons. The BOARD however, has been there for quite a while.