Jol v. the team

[Burt]

As many of you will know I have been very firmly in the "Give Jol Time" camp.

Based on a conversation with someone linked with the club last night I now find myself in a bit of a dilemma.

Allegedly, the team are in revolt against the tactics that Jol is looking to introduce. So against QPR for example it was the player's decision to go 4-4-2, and this was against Jol's wishes. Murphy and Jol are barely on speaking terms, BZ wants away, etc. etc. There are a lot of behind-the-scenes issues at the moment.

So, the dilemma is:

1. Do you back Jol, and his right to manage the first team as he sees fit? Even if this means some of the squad almost certainly end up leaving?

2. Do you back the team to play in the way in which they are most suited to? Even if this will end in tears?

All of a sudden my half-full glass is looking a bit precarious. My backing of Jol was on the basis that over time he would sort things out. But without the support of the team this may be difficult to achieve...

[MJG]

If true then i was right about the 442 against QPR  and the senior players wanting that. Yes it worked in that game but what about the next game?

That group of senior players do not have a right to pick the team even if we do like a lot of them. They are getting older and will soon move on, in the end the manager should call shots or you have a mess.you can't have a group of players running the club.

Im not surprised by what you have heard because i also have been told about the problems.

I'm firmly in the back the boss and move trouble makers on.

[Lighthouse]

Players know how well they can perform in a certain system. So the players must have some input. A manager must be allowed to put forward his ideas. If a workforce is unhappy then the manager is the one who usually gets the chop. But Jol isn't going anywhere so the players will probably move on.

My feeling is if Jols ideas were working so far there would no be a revolt. No good ridding ourselves of players if Jol still cannot make things work. Equally players must learn to adapt.

Putting it another way. I have no idea. Sack em all.  086.gif

[Hazey]

I have to say I really wanted us to get Jol instead of MH last season, however now I am not so sure.  I hadn't really followed his career that closely, but it seems that wherever he is there seems to be some discontent with the players.  No player or manager is bigger than a club so it will need to get sorted sooner rather than later in my opinion.

To back the players or Jol, I guess we don't really know enough in detail to make an informed decision, but my gut tells me for some reason to go with the players.

That would then raise the question of who would replace Jol?

[Basil]

It is difficult times but as has been said a million times we have an ageing team and are sitting on a bit of ticking bomb unless we address in next two years. Providing we dont go down this season i think we will come out this situation stronger.

For this reason we have to back Jol (although I have issues with his arrogance) as Murphy, Duff, Johnson etc are not going to be central to this club in 2 years time so we cant let them call the shots now.

[LBNo11]

...I also heard much the same rumour, and not from a source that is given to exaggeration.

It may all be rubbish, but if it is true then perhaps Jol should ease the team via a gradual transition into his style(?) just as Hughes did in combining the better parts of Hodgson's tactics with his own.

Good players have not become poor overnight...

[MJG]

8 of the team on the pitch at stoke have been here three to four years, the majority are 30 plus. Changes need to happen, its not a bloody Sunday team where mates have known each other for years and the team picks its self.
Time to move on and get a younger pacy  look to the team.

[Burt]

Yes have been having similar thoughts to some of the above:

Jol has the right to manage, and players have to fall in to line with that.

Its a case of "FIFO". If you don't like it, the door is over there...

And given the age of some of the key members of the squad we should be starting to look at replenishment / renewal.

[Berserker]

I feel I have to back Jol. I wouldn't want to be seen to be like the Liverpool fans that ran Roy out of town.

Saying all that, I really hope they can sort it all out, all it needs is a bit of give and take between Jol and the players.

It's all a bit worrying and depressing as far as I'm concerned and I don't like it a bit.

[MurphLegend]

 if what you say is true, and the boys ignored jol's formation, than i'm shocked

[TonyGilroy]

If the 4-4-2 played against QPR was the players choice then that shows that far from being arrogant Jol is prepared to take the players opinions on board.

I take all of this with a pinch of salt no matter how reliable informants are said to be.

[MJG]

I mentioned at the time of the QPR & Stoke game that we seem to have fallen into a 442 more by luck than judgement. And its interesting that last week AJ moved to wide right of the 3 behind the striker and did not look happy. Yesterday he was given that role from the start. Maybe Jol has won that battle and the players are at least staying in that formation.

I dont for a minute think we lined up in the QPR game with one formation and as soon as the players went on the pitch they did something else. its would have been after talking with Jol, but its clear he wants that 4-2-3-1 formation and its either his way or the highway.

[ElissonSnygg]

get rid of him.

[Mr Fulham]

I don't think BZ wants away (Why would he?) but I think there's a lot of truth in the Murphy/Jol-story. But I think Jol is pretty aware of the fact that he HAS TO replace Murphy. I think Danny knows it as well, but obviously it's hard to take. It seems that Jol tried to sign Wout Brama, so Smurf knows that his days are numbered. And an angry skipper is definitely not good for the team climate.

Plus I think the team, which contains some high-profile long-term Premiership players like Murphy, AJ and Bobby, is wrong. 4-4-2 isn't the best system for the team. It might well be the best system for these players, but they should realize that they are 30+ and that Jol is the manager.

So they should shut up and let Jol do what Jol wants to do, whatever that is.

[Burt]

If the 4-4-2 played against QPR was the players choice then that shows that far from being arrogant Jol is prepared to take the players opinions on board.

I take all of this with a pinch of salt no matter how reliable informants are said to be.

There have been rumours of discontent in the press (e.g. Kidd) which I did take with a pinch of salt right through to the conversation I had last night.

Something will have to give if there is indeed such a split. I just hope it doesn't end our premier league status come the end of the season.

[Mr Fulham]

its clear he wants that 4-2-3-1 formation

And rightly so! It's the perfect formation for our younger players. Only problem it that it would automatically throw either BZ or AJ out of the formation. And they're two of the "team leaders". And, as we all know, it's always a problem to throw out older players who have a big reputation. Chelsea have the same problem with Lampard, Liverpool with Carragher and Gerrard and ManUtd with Ferdinand and Berbatov. That's a tricky potential banana skin for every manager, especially when he's new in the job. But eventually we will have to replace BZ, AJ, Duff, Murphy and Hughes.

[Rambling_Syd_Rumpo]

Still backing Jol,if Zamora and the like don't like it they can go-simple as
if player power wins what happens when these players leave in 3 seasons??????
back Jol,get rid off the ringleaders in Jan
I'm happy to write off Europe, ditch the trouble makers and stay in the Premier league and start afresh :clap_hands: :clap_hands:

[RidgeRider]

I don't think BZ wants away (Why would he?) but I think there's a lot of truth in the Murphy/Jol-story. But I think Jol is pretty aware of the fact that he HAS TO replace Murphy. I think Danny knows it as well, but obviously it's hard to take. It seems that Jol tried to sign Wout Brama, so Smurf knows that his days are numbered. And an angry skipper is definitely not good for the team climate.

Plus I think the team, which contains some high-profile long-term Premiership players like Murphy, AJ and Bobby, is wrong. 4-4-2 isn't the best system for the team. It might well be the best system for these players, but they should realize that they are 30+ and that Jol is the manager.

So they should shut up and let Jol do what Jol wants to do, whatever that is.

:54:

[VicHalomsLovechild]

Mo has said that Jol was the man he wanted. So going against Jol would be a really dumb thing to do but footballers aren't known for their high IQs. Not getting playing time or extended contracts would naturally produce an amount of discontent. Which all clubs must have to deal with. My guess would be that someone, agent or the like is stirring the situation to suit their own ends. Plus anybody who knows anybody at the club is pressing them for info on the "unrest" and people being people they're giving their account true or otherwise.
So far all of Jol's buys we've seen seem to be ok. The youth setup seems to be doing well and he's giving youth a bit of a chance. I'll stick with Jol at the moment.  

[FFCSteve]

The trouble is we & the team know they can play a certain formation. When happy, we can give any team a run for their money! (Well at home anyway!)
I can't see wholesale changes working without time. Time we don't have at this level.
Jol should make an effort to a slow transition. There's that old saying, you can't teach an old dog new tricks!
So Jol should go with what the team know, until he can work in any new players with a new system.