Author Topic: Re: When Will We Know That The Jol Medicine Is Working?  (Read 4195 times)

Offline LRCN

  • Legend
  • ***
  • Posts: 1702
  • abitswifter
    • #lork
Re: When Will We Know That The Jol Medicine Is Working?
« on: December 27, 2012, 03:58:07 PM »
thoughts 10 months on?

Offline Berserker

  • Gentleman Jim
  • ***
  • Posts: 9017
  • Sadly my enthusiam is often way above my expertise
Re: Re: When Will We Know That The Jol Medicine Is Working?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2012, 04:32:53 PM »
To be honest i'm too down by our form at the moment to be objective

RidgeRider

  • Guest
Re: When Will We Know That The Jol Medicine Is Working?
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2012, 04:42:17 PM »
While I admire the stalwart support of our manager by some, and certainly not all the the blame is on his shoulders, but the summer transfer window gutted us of our two best players and the engine of the club. We did very little to respond but get Berba. This we can thank Jol for. Losing Dempsey and Dembele we can blame on Macintosh.

As a side note, I think Hugo and Richardson were club decisions and not Jol targets....but thats not the point here.

The total lack of cohesion of the players is the fault of the manager. If he has lost the training room, then he will need to do something drastic to win it back. I don't think he will and will be fired.

Does this mean he is not a good manager? No, I think he is a good manager but I also think he does better when he has an assistant who is a good man manager like he did with Houghton and more recently with Lewington and Murphy (assistant on the field). Having his two brothers as assistants just makes the coaching staff more insular as the two brothers are loyal to their brother, and not the team so why would a player share their discontent with the assistants? Where do they go when they are bugged by something?

Jol will most likely be fired because he can't get this team to win matches against the worst teams this league has to offer because the team has quit on him. He won't recover from this unless a player steps up to lead the squad out of their funk.


Offline CH FFC

  • Graham Leggat
  • **
  • Posts: 408
Re: When Will We Know That The Jol Medicine Is Working?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2012, 05:28:21 PM »
While I admire the stalwart support of our manager by some, and certainly not all the the blame is on his shoulders, but the summer transfer window gutted us of our two best players and the engine of the club. We did very little to respond but get Berba. This we can thank Jol for. Losing Dempsey and Dembele we can blame on Macintosh.

As a side note, I think Hugo and Richardson were club decisions and not Jol targets....but thats not the point here.

The total lack of cohesion of the players is the fault of the manager. If he has lost the training room, then he will need to do something drastic to win it back. I don't think he will and will be fired.

Does this mean he is not a good manager? No, I think he is a good manager but I also think he does better when he has an assistant who is a good man manager like he did with Houghton and more recently with Lewington and Murphy (assistant on the field). Having his two brothers as assistants just makes the coaching staff more insular as the two brothers are loyal to their brother, and not the team so why would a player share their discontent with the assistants? Where do they go when they are bugged by something?

Jol will most likely be fired because he can't get this team to win matches against the worst teams this league has to offer because the team has quit on him. He won't recover from this unless a player steps up to lead the squad out of their funk.

Have the team quit on him?
They sure seem to have lost any spirit, fight, or heart.  Has he really lost the locker room, or is there another reason?  I'm not necissarily suggesting that there is, but could there be other issues within the club?  I do think it is a fair question, because most comments that are made to the press and reactions of players to Jol do not look negative...at least from what I have seen.

10 months on and we're in a similar boat we were in last year, with for the most part a new crew.
I do not blame Jol for the cock up in the transfer window, but I sure hope he and the team pick it up soon.

I for one am a fan of Jol, but more so of Fulham.  If firing Jol, and bringing in new blood helps us move forward then so beit.  I for one feel with the right support Jol could be quite successful here, he has shown us a good style of play, and a few successes.  Unfortunately, lately the form is drowning much of the positives out.

Offline RaySmith

  • Gentleman Jim
  • ***
  • Posts: 7017
Re: When Will We Know That The Jol Medicine Is Working?
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2012, 05:49:55 PM »
I don't think the team lacks  heart - just confidence- in an unsettled, injury decimated line-up, which obviously gets worse with poor results - a vicious circle.

But I think  there is enough quality in the team, and Jol is a good enough manager, to turn things around, and have a reasonable second half to the season.

Obviously, we have been here before, under Tigana, Coleman and Sanchez, and even Roy didn't seem as if he was going to be able to turn it around until that amazing result at City. This is also very much like Sparky's full season, with calls for the manager to be sacked at Christmas, but then turning things around and finishing well

Could this be the year we don't turn things around? well, i think MAF will always take drastic measures if he thinks this is going to happen, but i think that we have seen the potential in this team to play well and get results, and I think we will  get back on track.

Offline west kowloon white

  • Legend
  • ***
  • Posts: 1248
Re: When Will We Know That The Jol Medicine Is Working?
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2012, 06:13:39 PM »
Is the Aston Villa site filled with as much anti Lambert vitriol n crap-for example


White Noise

  • Guest
Re: When Will We Know That The Jol Medicine Is Working?
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2012, 07:46:14 PM »
I thought his assessment after yesterday's game was very honest. He can see most of the problems we see and clearly is under no illusion about how poor our performances have been. He does not look at all happy and I am expecting us to be relatively busy in January. The problem with transfer windows though is that you need a large slice of luck to get in the sort of players you want for the price you want. And Mr Jol is not looking lucky right now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20847495#asset

& the Sky video interview -

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11681/8359381/Fulham-manager-Martin-Jol-livid-after-his-side-held-to-a-1-1-draw-by-Southampton
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 07:49:55 PM by White Noise »

RidgeRider

  • Guest
Re: When Will We Know That The Jol Medicine Is Working?
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2012, 07:53:17 PM »
I thought his assessment after yesterday's game was very honest. He can see most of the problems we see and clearly is under no illusion about how poor our performances have been. He does not look at all happy and I am expecting us to be relatively busy in January. The problem with transfer windows though is that you need a large slice of luck to get in the sort of players you want for the price you want. And Mr Jol is not looking lucky right now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20847495#asset

& the Sky video interview -

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11681/8359381/Fulham-manager-Martin-Jol-livid-after-his-side-held-to-a-1-1-draw-by-Southampton

"We have to do something"...in the transfer window

The other interesting comment was the way they played yesterday, and certainly looking back on the previous matches, he said it "wasn't our intention" to play the way we did. To me that is interesting in that the players are either incapable of playing the way he wants (don't think this is the case based on earlier performances) or are unwilling, or perhaps the opposition has figured us out so easily they are not allowing us to play the way we want.

Offline BillNRoc

  • Graham Leggat
  • **
  • Posts: 282
Re: When Will We Know That The Jol Medicine Is Working?
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2012, 08:16:38 PM »
Whether or not the medicine is working, the patient now appears terminal.

If the recent opponents have all figured out how to blunt our offense (e.g., double-team Berba and make someone else beat you), then isn't it the manager's task to come up with different tactics that force the opponents to adjust? With our output so diminished, it suggests the players he's got can't do what he wants. Ruiz and Diarra don't look like saviors to me, so MJ better do at least as well in Jan 2013 as he did with Pog a year ago or we'll be stuck in the bottom 5 or 6 where recent form suggests we belong.


Offline Lighthouse

  • Moritz Volz
  • ***
  • Posts: 18636
Re: When Will We Know That The Jol Medicine Is Working?
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2012, 11:06:18 PM »
 I have not changed my opinion but I am always willing to have a good debate.

 I think that on top of the iffy medicine the suppliers haven't supplied the drugs needed anyway. So we have a doctor trying to work out what dosage of a poor generic medicine is needed to do the job. When the doctor wasn't that consistant when he had the right drugs.

Offline Mitrovic the warrior

  • Gentleman Jim
  • ***
  • Posts: 6129
Re: When Will We Know That The Jol Medicine Is Working?
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2012, 03:54:06 AM »
To me it's quite simple. He has an ambitious project and for it to work he needs the right players. The chairman needs to back him financially for it to work. He must have known Jol's intentions. Perhaps he just didn't realize how much it would cost him.

Offline HatterDon

  • Moritz Volz
  • ***
  • Posts: 16749
  • just like that
Re: When Will We Know That The Jol Medicine Is Working?
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2012, 04:26:37 AM »
1. when his players go out with what appears to be a plan, with play that is designed to beat that particular opponent on that particular day.

2. when, after a first half when what we're doing doesn't work, his players go out for the 2nd 45 and do something different

3. when his substitutions are made with the design of improving the play and not just taking a player off and putting one on.

4. well, that would be a start.

I keep closing my eyes and wishing as hard as I can and snapping my fingers but I just can't see the same Jol that so many of you other guys do. I guess I lost blind faith about the same time Stevie Winwood did.