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Ruiz back to Twente.

Started by Jambo, April 23, 2013, 10:09:50 PM

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MJG

Right how much difference does Ruiz make?

Taking just lge games into account he has appeared in 25 games.
Won 7 drew 9 Lost 9 F-37 A-38 Pts 30 An average of 1.2 pts per game

Without him in the other 9 games
Won 3 drew 1 Lost 5 F-7 A-14 Pts 10 An average of 1.11 pts per game.

Over a full season we could have on average got 46pts with him playing
Without him we may have got 42 pts. Not a large difference.

Its clear we have averaged almost double the number of goals when he plays, no real difference in goals against.
We have won slightly more games(% wise) when he has not played but have lost when not.

the last 17 games he has taken part in, he has scored 1 and had 1 assist.
In the first 8 he scored 2 and assisted 5

3 of the 5 we lost when he was not playing were Liverpool (4-0), Spurs (3-0) and WHU (3-0)

Just thought I would throw that in to be ripped apart.

hongkongfulham

Quote from: MJG on April 24, 2013, 01:44:03 PM
Right how much difference does Ruiz make?

Taking just lge games into account he has appeared in 25 games.
Won 7 drew 9 Lost 9 F-37 A-38 Pts 30 An average of 1.2 pts per game

Without him in the other 9 games
Won 3 drew 1 Lost 5 F-7 A-14 Pts 10 An average of 1.11 pts per game.

Over a full season we could have on average got 46pts with him playing
Without him we may have got 42 pts. Not a large difference.

Its clear we have averaged almost double the number of goals when he plays, no real difference in goals against.
We have won slightly more games(% wise) when he has not played but have lost when not.

the last 17 games he has taken part in, he has scored 1 and had 1 assist.
In the first 8 he scored 2 and assisted 5

3 of the 5 we lost when he was not playing were Liverpool (4-0), Spurs (3-0) and WHU (3-0)

Just thought I would throw that in to be ripped apart.


I like numbers, merci buckets

Berbasilk_111

I have been watching Ruiz since his Twente days, and its fair to say I would never have expected to see him produce such underwhelming performances in the BPL, this was a guy who was classed on par with Luis Suarez, he obviously hasn't achieved his potential at Fulham; I think a move would satisfy both parties. I think Jol's mistakes lie within the fact that with a player like Ruiz, you have to build the team around him, players that complement his style of play, for example if he is playing as a playmaker, there should be runs off the ball instead we are static hence limiting his effectiveness. Secondly I feel that Jol gives him too much defensive responsibilities with the other 2 central midfielders not being able to keep the ball, forcing Ruiz to expend too much of his energies in his own half of the pitch rather than being able to cause harm to the opposition team in more advanced areas of the pitch. Finally Jol has not signed a player who would provide sufficient competition to make Ruiz fight for his place, therefore we see somewhat complacent perfomances with Ruiz as he knows himself that he cant be dropped. Its pretty obvious Ruiz will not cut it at Fulham. How I wish I was wrong...


fulhamben

Quote from: Berbasilk_111 on April 24, 2013, 02:05:07 PM
I have been watching Ruiz since his Twente days, and its fair to say I would never have expected to see him produce such underwhelming performances in the BPL, this was a guy who was classed on par with Luis Suarez, he obviously hasn't achieved his potential at Fulham; I think a move would satisfy both parties. I think Jol's mistakes lie within the fact that with a player like Ruiz, you have to build the team around him, players that complement his style of play, for example if he is playing as a playmaker, there should be runs off the ball instead we are static hence limiting his effectiveness. Secondly I feel that Jol gives him too much defensive responsibilities with the other 2 central midfielders not being able to keep the ball, forcing Ruiz to expend too much of his energies in his own half of the pitch rather than being able to cause harm to the opposition team in more advanced areas of the pitch. Finally Jol has not signed a player who would provide sufficient competition to make Ruiz fight for his place, therefore we see somewhat complacent perfomances with Ruiz as he knows himself that he cant be dropped. Its pretty obvious Ruiz will not cut it at Fulham. How I wish I was wrong...
pretty obvious in your opinnion you mean. its pretty obvious in my opinion that he is cutting it at fulham. by far our most creative player. i know who i want the ball at thier feet when we are pinned back and its not the likes of sidwell or the bubble.
CHRIS MARTIN IS SO BAD,  WE NOW PRAISE HIM FOR MAKING A RUN.

ToodlesMcToot

I just can't see Ruiz being sold, and I think the "news" is a case of a sports reporting entity putting a bunch of tidbits and opinion together to build an attention getting, but inaccurate story. After all, Ruiz is Jol's big money signing in his tenure with us. Selling him back to the team we bought him from would be admitting a huge failure in judgement. Jol doesn't seem likely to allow that to happen.

From what I've seen, Bryan has shown flashes of great play this year, but was far more consistent last year because the players around him fit the system better. I'm not sure where I read the opinion, but someone put out there that signing Berbatov was a way of plastering over the rough transition that we were going to have with player turn over. I'm not certain that it's true, of course, but it makes some sense. And the team learning to play with a Berba has been a real struggle to my eye. He plays at a different rhythym than the rest of the team and they've rarely been entirely on the same page as him.

I wonder if we won't still be in this transitional phase of our club roster well into next season if not through the entirety of it.
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." — The Dude

Arthur

Quote from: Berbasilk_111 on April 24, 2013, 02:05:07 PM
I have been watching Ruiz since his Twente days, and its fair to say I would never have expected to see him produce such underwhelming performances in the BPL, this was a guy who was classed on par with Luis Suarez, he obviously hasn't achieved his potential at Fulham; I think a move would satisfy both parties. I think Jol's mistakes lie within the fact that with a player like Ruiz, you have to build the team around him, players that complement his style of play, for example if he is playing as a playmaker, there should be runs off the ball instead we are static hence limiting his effectiveness. Secondly I feel that Jol gives him too much defensive responsibilities with the other 2 central midfielders not being able to keep the ball, forcing Ruiz to expend too much of his energies in his own half of the pitch rather than being able to cause harm to the opposition team in more advanced areas of the pitch. Finally Jol has not signed a player who would provide sufficient competition to make Ruiz fight for his place, therefore we see somewhat complacent perfomances with Ruiz as he knows himself that he cant be dropped. Its pretty obvious Ruiz will not cut it at Fulham. How I wish I was wrong...

What was wrong, clearly, was that he was classed on a par with Suarez.

I'm also bemused by the fact that, having both begun and concluded so dismissively of Ruiz, the rest of your post could hardly make a stronger case for keeping him and getting the best out of him.

I like Ruiz. He's steadily got better this season to the point where I think his last two performances have more than justified his inclusion in the team; he's produced some excellent pieces of skill against two of the top teams. In my opinion, there is cause to believe that he can replicate such good form on a more frequent basis next season.

If we need to shift players out in order to finance new acquisitions (which I find somewhat dubious, considering the even greater 'megabucks' windfall that clubs will reportedly receive from the new Sky deal) there are a number of other players I'd let go before contemplating Ruiz.


AnotherVicHalomLoveChild

Quote from: fulhamben on April 24, 2013, 02:12:49 PM
Quote from: Berbasilk_111 on April 24, 2013, 02:05:07 PM
I have been watching Ruiz since his Twente days, and its fair to say I would never have expected to see him produce such underwhelming performances in the BPL, this was a guy who was classed on par with Luis Suarez, he obviously hasn't achieved his potential at Fulham; I think a move would satisfy both parties. I think Jol's mistakes lie within the fact that with a player like Ruiz, you have to build the team around him, players that complement his style of play, for example if he is playing as a playmaker, there should be runs off the ball instead we are static hence limiting his effectiveness. Secondly I feel that Jol gives him too much defensive responsibilities with the other 2 central midfielders not being able to keep the ball, forcing Ruiz to expend too much of his energies in his own half of the pitch rather than being able to cause harm to the opposition team in more advanced areas of the pitch. Finally Jol has not signed a player who would provide sufficient competition to make Ruiz fight for his place, therefore we see somewhat complacent perfomances with Ruiz as he knows himself that he cant be dropped. Its pretty obvious Ruiz will not cut it at Fulham. How I wish I was wrong...
pretty obvious in your opinnion you mean. its pretty obvious in my opinion that he is cutting it at fulham. by far our most creative player. i know who i want the ball at thier feet when we are pinned back and its not the likes of sidwell or the bubble.

Don't worry fulhamben - it won't be Sidwell - he's banned!

F(f)CUK

Just checked his contract situation. We signed him on a 4 year contract so we have got him for another year. We will then sell him with a year to go or extend his contract.

Bassey the warrior

Firstly Ruiz hasn't been a flop, he hasn't lived up to his potential but that doesn't make him a flop. He makes our team better, without him we have only Berbatov to provide creativity and he's not as good as Ruiz.
He's improved his all round game this year; he tracks back fairly well and is willing to put himself about a bit, he's cut down on the showboating a bit as well.
Unfortunately he's become less attacking as time goes by. Less of a threat.

I can't help but feel that since Murphy departed he feels he has to take on the role Murphy played because we do miss that creativity in central midfield. This would explain why he plays so deep. I think Jol is aware of this and that's why he made efforts to sign Huddlestone. Signing Huddlestone will allow him to play further up the pitch.

I also feel we don't have the right players to make use of his talents. He is very creative and we don't have the off the ball movement to make full use of that creativity. If we could sign some players who make forward runs more often we will score a lot more goals and people will come to see Ruiz is in fact a genius.


ScalleysDad

If Ruiz goes it will be a huge statement from Jol. I'd have some sympathy with Ruiz as he won't be the only player undone by the Berbatov factor.

Berserker

Do you think anybody would notice if I kidnapped him and kept in my allotment shed
Twitter: @hollyberry6699

'Only in the darkness can you see the stars'

- Martin Luther King Jr.

ScalleysDad

Quote from: Berserker on April 24, 2013, 10:38:49 PM
Do you think anybody would notice if I kidnapped him and kept in my allotment shed


Your Local Government Allotment Officer would have every right to confiscate him as a non productive item.

ahem


JackyFulham90

There is no way Jol will sell Ruiz no way what so ever

BarryP

I like Ruiz and I hope he stays. So says one lone voice in the wilderness.
"Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, except to convictions of honor and good sense."

hongkongfulham

Quote from: BarryP on April 25, 2013, 12:46:40 AM
I like Ruiz and I hope he stays. So says one lone voice in the wilderness.

I stand with you


Stefano Okaka Chuka

What's the point in selling him? He regularly makes the starting 11 and we could not recover all the money we spent on him...Nonsense.
She's a Flamenco girl
and dancing is her life
she said stay with me, stay with me
Viva el Fulham!

Berserker

Quote from: ScalleysDad on April 24, 2013, 11:22:39 PM
Quote from: Berserker on April 24, 2013, 10:38:49 PM
Do you think anybody would notice if I kidnapped him and kept in my allotment shed


Your Local Government Allotment Officer would have every right to confiscate him as a non productive item.

ahem

They're going to be privatised so i expect there won't be a local anything.
Twitter: @hollyberry6699

'Only in the darkness can you see the stars'

- Martin Luther King Jr.

Forever Fulham

This has to be one of the best discussion threads I've read on this board in a long time.  I wish Bryan could find ways to score more.  The team just doesn't score enough goals to take the pressure off and affect the lines of play.  I think Jol has failed to put the right type of players near him.  For all of his great skills with the ball, Berbatov without the ball is nowhere near as good of a player.  Karagounis hustles hard, but the car is still stuck in a lower gear.  Ruiz needs speed around him, and it's missing.  'Course, Dempsey wasn't a speedster, but he made himself a passing target nonetheless.  I'd rather see Bryan in the middle, spraying balls to speedy wingers, to Berb in front of him, to Ashkan the whirling dervish, to Riether cheating up, to the door pounding big man up top we don't yet have. The season's almost over; it's time to put the kids in the game to see what's what. 


Alternative

Ruiz has improved - but not enough. He gets dispossessed too easily and does not know when to release the ball. So he can be a liability. We will not get £10 million back; but offers may be worth considering as he is taking up a place where another player may perform better.

domprague

 :clap_hands:

Quote from: Forever Fulham on April 25, 2013, 08:26:36 AM
This has to be one of the best discussion threads I've read on this board in a long time.  I wish Bryan could find ways to score more.  The team just doesn't score enough goals to take the pressure off and affect the lines of play.  I think Jol has failed to put the right type of players near him.  For all of his great skills with the ball, Berbatov without the ball is nowhere near as good of a player.  Karagounis hustles hard, but the car is still stuck in a lower gear.  Ruiz needs speed around him, and it's missing.  'Course, Dempsey wasn't a speedster, but he made himself a passing target nonetheless.  I'd rather see Bryan in the middle, spraying balls to speedy wingers, to Berb in front of him, to Ashkan the whirling dervish, to Riether cheating up, to the door pounding big man up top we don't yet have. The season's almost over; it's time to put the kids in the game to see what's what. 
You came all this way ... and you lost, and you lost.