Parker's view of Berbatov..

[Herbie]

just shows how wrong statistics are then

MATCH STATS
Possession
53%
47%
90mins
Manchester City
Tottenham Hotspur
Shots
15         13
On target
10          5
Corners
4            7
Fouls

Spurs had 53 % possession to 47% City  similar amount of shots but who lost 6- 0?

My point was about tactics, not statistics. Berba could have been Man of the Match if that diamond formation had really worked. Instead, he's the big disapointment once again.

Sorry Farfouille, but that's a bit like saying we could have scored three goals if the goalie hadn't saved out shots on target.  I'm not one for bashing players and this isn't intended to be derogatory to Berba, but I think Berba needs a bit of time on the bench.

[MJG]

Beat me to it, Epsom. I agree, statistics can be used to support any argument, but they don't always give the complete picture.  One could say that Berba had a bad game because he failed to fulfil his role as striker by not scoring.

Also, looking at that diagramof average positions, one could argue that Berba dropping deep occupied the space that Ruiz should have been operating in, pushing Ruiz back into midfield and leaving Bent as a lone striker.

The thing that strikes me from the diagram is the void on our left hand side

actually as a diamond, Parker & Kasami are in the right place. Its Ruiz and Berbatov who are in the wrong positions.
Richardson just failed to get forward and i think one reason is that Amoreboreta does not seem that keen to go too far left, as oposed to Hughes who would fill the gap left by the RB.

[callumc513]

Dude, Bent could have had a hat trick, Berba was trying and chasing the ball, unlike previous games. Nothing wrong with our attack.  We missed 4 or 5 clear chances at home. We could have easily won yesterday.  Berba could have had an easy goal if Bent (who is technically dreadful) had decided not to pass the ball on the grass (the defender cleared it), but scooped it to Berba who has a wide open net.  Berba played behind Bent and was feeding him the balls. Again, Bent is not a clinical finisher.  We should try the young Dembele on top.  Berba is the best finisher but we cant play him on top according to Jol so he has to figure out a way to do it.

Entirely agree. Berba had a good game yesterday.

[/b]


Thats so wrong

Surely Berba performed his role correctly and well?
As previously stated he won all aerial duels and was extremely accurate in his passing. He would have also been highly likely to score if Bent had actually managed to pass to him in the main second half chance.
If you're gonna criticise anyone about not performing to a level that is expected of a striker you should criticise Bent, who missed 3 glorious chances, completely cocked up a simple pass for a Berba tap in and generally struggled to control the ball.

[terryr]

Berba was a complete passenger- he spent most of the game strolling around uninterested and should have been substituted.

That's just not true.
I was at the game and I was surprised how active he was. Much more than usual.
Sorry that's my view.
Bent didn't execute when he had to....brings back how he bottled it against Chelsea, but he has scored this year and his % is still pretty good. I thought he worked harder than usual as well as Berb.

[jmh]

Dude, Bent could have had a hat trick, Berba was trying and chasing the ball, unlike previous games. Nothing wrong with our attack.  We missed 4 or 5 clear chances at home. We could have easily won yesterday.  Berba could have had an easy goal if Bent (who is technically dreadful) had decided not to pass the ball on the grass (the defender cleared it), but scooped it to Berba who has a wide open net.  Berba played behind Bent and was feeding him the balls. Again, Bent is not a clinical finisher.  We should try the young Dembele on top.  Berba is the best finisher but we cant play him on top according to Jol so he has to figure out a way to do it.

I'm with this.  We would've scored some more goals if Bent weren't completely worthless.  Not sure why it's Berbatov that's being scapegoated here.

[YoungsBitter]

I watched the whole game on NBC and I have to agree that Berba gets stick for his languid style but on Saturday put a reasonable shift in. The graphic shows where the problems were - Kasami pulled into the middle and Richardson too deep so wide spaces for Swansea to pass around us. If Bent had scored the stats on possession would have changed as our confidence would have increased and we would have done more with the ball. Bent should take the stick not Berba. Ruiz meanwhile was a total passenger, its embarrassing - if anyone needs time on the bench its him, his confidence is shot. Jol's subs were awful again: Takes off Ruiz way too late and brings on Kaca who played Internationals midweek and did nothing instead of giving the rested and drilled Tarabt more than an 8 minute cameo; takes off Parker who was playing out of his shorts, brings on Sidwell to replace Boateng so we went back to the failing midfield pairing of the last 4 losses...Why not take Bent off for last 10 and give Dembele a run out? It will be interesting to see how successful Muelensteen can be when Jol keeps making these errors that undermine the shape change...

[Fulham_Surrey]

the bigger issue is that Berba is far better finisher than Bent and we paid the price for him not being played on top.  Play Berba on top and Kasami behind him.

[EJL]

I'm glad someone brought up Berba's successes in the air on Saturday as it's something he actually deserves credit for. It shows that, if he can be bothered, he's more than capable of holding the ball up like a classic number nine and slugging it out with the opposing centre-halves.

[WolverineFFC]

Statistically, Berbatov had a great game because he won every possible aerial combat and his passes were accurate (don't tell me I am the only one who saw it). However, he wasn't a threat at all and he didn't have the excuse for playing behind a striker because they were supposed to play a diamond formation with 2 forwards (Berba and Bent) with Ruiz behind them (according to Jol).
The average position of the players showed something different though:


We actually played with 1 defensive midfielder (Boateng), one full back who also had a winger role (Zverotica), 3 central midfielders - Ruiz (!), Parker and Kasami, then we had Berba and then upfront we had Bent who had 3 good chances that he missed. Not sure if the problem was bad luck or tactics but I can't really recall Ruiz feeding our 2 forwards in this game...

Wow. I don't think any graphic can better explain Fulham's failings this season. You basically have Ruiz, Berbatov, and Parker standing on each other's boots for the entire match. That seems like a pretty easy formation to defend. You literally don't even have to employ a RB if you are Swansea.

As for the Berbatov argument. There is a saying about how overachieving teams are sometimes greater than the sum of its parts. It has been said over and over, but a team with Ruiz and Berbatov in it at the same time is the opposite. They do not compliment each other and in many ways magnify each other's failings and minimize their strengths.

We wouldn't be surprised if a team filled with CB's couldn't score. I don't know why we are surprised that a team with 3 players (Bent, Berbatov, Ruiz) unable to tackle or defend can't get possession of the ball. Who is at fault, the players with said skills, or the manager who thinks it a good idea to keep putting them in these positions to fail???

[YoungsBitter]

Statistically, Berbatov had a great game because he won every possible aerial combat and his passes were accurate (don't tell me I am the only one who saw it). However, he wasn't a threat at all and he didn't have the excuse for playing behind a striker because they were supposed to play a diamond formation with 2 forwards (Berba and Bent) with Ruiz behind them (according to Jol).
The average position of the players showed something different though:


We actually played with 1 defensive midfielder (Boateng), one full back who also had a winger role (Zverotica), 3 central midfielders - Ruiz (!), Parker and Kasami, then we had Berba and then upfront we had Bent who had 3 good chances that he missed. Not sure if the problem was bad luck or tactics but I can't really recall Ruiz feeding our 2 forwards in this game...

Wow. I don't think any graphic can better explain Fulham's failings this season. You basically have Ruiz, Berbatov, and Parker standing on each other's boots for the entire match. That seems like a pretty easy formation to defend. You literally don't even have to employ a RB if you are Swansea.

As for the Berbatov argument. There is a saying about how overachieving teams are sometimes greater than the sum of its parts. It has been said over and over, but a team with Ruiz and Berbatov in it at the same time is the opposite. They do not compliment each other and in many ways magnify each other's failings and minimize their strengths.

We wouldn't be surprised if a team filled with CB's couldn't score. I don't know why we are surprised that a team with 3 players (Bent, Berbatov, Ruiz) unable to tackle or defend can't get possession of the ball. Who is at fault, the players with said skills, or the manager who thinks it a good idea to keep putting them in these positions to fail???

I agree and have to fault Jol for continuing to make the selection of those three when 2 at best would be justified. As someone else posted its like we have 8 vs opposition 11 and thats then no surprise we get overrun in midfield.

[NogoodBoyo]

Diamond? Christmas tree (which is what Tony Gale thought we were playing on Saturday)? 4-3-3? 
5-6-0?
Whatever baloney the fans and pundits come up with concerning our shape, the only one that springs to my mind is...... PEAR!
Nogood "as in thin at the top with too much in the middle and a sagging bottom....and don't forget the rotten to the core bit too, isit" Boyo

[Adi-ffc]

Berbs did ok when he got to the ball and in the air on Saturday, but he just doesn't do enough in games, particularly in combination with Ruiz.
Look at how the swansea players swarmed around us at times in the second half trying to win the ball back, and that was a team also supposedly out of sorts. We need so much more energy from our front men and can't give him a pass any more for his occasional deft touches.
I would even take either of the lads who started up front for Leicester the other day over berbs, and they weren't even their first choice strikers.
Great player who's shot, dragging us into the championship.