Ok , realistically...

[General]

For those of you who have followed the youth setups more closely...

How many of the players in our youth set up, based on the standard relative to what we have seen to date could make the break though, get given their chance and how many positions have been covered?

CM seems to be a strong area... Two have made their debuts in LVC and David, whilst i am aware hyndman is got a lot of potential... What about sambou, foday nabay and more interestingly ronnie minkwitz - why isn't he being given a run out? He has been a stable captain like influence in our academy in winning sides.. Where is he?

On the wings, ange Freddie plumain, Patrick Roberts, I'm going to say kaka and who else?

Defence - burn, arthurworry all seem to be players starting to may headway - being loaned out etc...

Goalkeepers - rodak stands out, obviously is etheridge good enough?, oberschmidt?

When can we really expect to see these players start to make their breakthroughs? I am aware Patrick Roberts is 16/17 at the moment and looks quite small... Two three years, or is he expected to do better and be ready before then?

[sunburywhite]

Realistically I think most of them could make it

I think Minkiwitz needs to go out on loan to kick on

Arthurworrey will have to see if he can remain physically dominant when playing with men

[Pluto]

Minkwitz has fallen off the pace a bit in the last year or so. He looked talented a couple of years ago but I'd be surprised now if he made the grade at PL level. Ditto Banya and Ryan Williams. Credit Josh Pritchard for going all the way to Norway for first team action but I feel Championship will be his level.

Too young to say about the keepers as the position is usually the last to develop. Etheridge needs to kick on as he's 23 now.

In defence, Jack Grimmer is a major talent and I think he could feature in the senior side next season. I also like Josh Passley,a wing back in the Kyle Walker mould, though I think he could be better suited to right midfield in the long run. In the under 18s Liam Donnelly and Noe Baba look promising.

Sambou, Hyndman and Jordan Evans all promising midfielders but still young. George Williams up front too.

One player I think we could see very soon is Tankovic- has a lot of raw talent and flair, though an ego the size of the moon by the sounds of things. If he gets his head down he could be big for us.

[General]

Thanks guys, great insights... Anyone have any more to share?

[General]

Minkwitz has fallen off the pace a bit in the last year or so. He looked talented a couple of years ago but I'd be surprised now if he made the grade at PL level. Ditto Banya and Ryan Williams. Credit Josh Pritchard for going all the way to Norway for first team action but I feel Championship will be his level.

Too young to say about the keepers as the position is usually the last to develop. Etheridge needs to kick on as he's 23 now.

In defence, Jack Grimmer is a major talent and I think he could feature in the senior side next season. I also like Josh Passley,a wing back in the Kyle Walker mould, though I think he could be better suited to right midfield in the long run. In the under 18s Liam Donnelly and Noe Baba look promising.

Sambou, Hyndman and Jordan Evans all promising midfielders but still young. George Williams up front too.

One player I think we could see very soon is Tankovic- has a lot of raw talent and flair, though an ego the size of the moon by the sounds of things. If he gets his head down he could be big for us.

Also you mentioned josh Pritchard being championship level, i know that is not premiership level but if we loaned him out to a championship club do you think he has what it takes to develop enough to move up to premiership level given a competitive squad/championship level environment, and therefore be premiership level moving up?

There are players that have gone down from premiership level to go down and then come back up and done a lot better... I remember seeing a certain Liam rosenior do quite well for hull when we lost 6-0 to them recently... He really wasnt that good when he was here with us... A bit like Dempsey in that you could sense he had more to give but never seemed to make that connection... Dempsey obviously played further forward and made that break through in the last year, but i was wondering... It is possible that if a player is championship level it may be worth loaning him out there and then holding on to him a bit longer...no?

[MJG]

Thanks guys, great insights... Anyone have any more to share?

I actually think Minkiwitz has improved over the last couple of months, but I do think he has missed the boat to progress at Fulham.
Any of GK's could do well and as we have seen they all develop a lot later so no rush with them.
Passley for me should be our second string RB. I really believe he could be our RB in 2 seasons.
Grimmer is now seen more as a CB but he needs to get out and get some loan games in Lge 1 or Champ.
Kavanagh & Richards are fine footballers but too small to make it in the prem unless they bulk up.
Arthurworrey reminds me of a young Zat Knight and hope he does well at Tranmere and then get some more games on loan next season.

LVC has won me over this season. neat and tidy he's not going to get the headlines like David & Dembele but does an important job of rotating the ball in midfield.
David should have been on the subs bench from the start of the season. Crying out for a midfielder like him in the squad.

Tankovic again does a lot of work between the midfield and striker. Would be happy to see him in the Norwich game squad.

[cmg]

Thanks guys, great insights... Anyone have any more to share?

I actually think Minkiwitz has improved over the last couple of months, but I do think he has missed the boat to progress at Fulham.
Any of GK's could do well and as we have seen they all develop a lot later so no rush with them.
Passley for me should be our second string RB. I really believe he could be our RB in 2 seasons.
Grimmer is now seen more as a CB but he needs to get out and get some loan games in Lge 1 or Champ.
Kavanagh & Richards are fine footballers but too small to make it in the prem unless they bulk up.
Arthurworrey reminds me of a young Zat Knight and hope he does well at Tranmere and then get some more games on loan next season.

LVC has won me over this season. neat and tidy he's not going to get the headlines like David & Dembele but does an important job of rotating the ball in midfield.
David should have been on the subs bench from the start of the season. Crying out for a midfielder like him in the squad.

Tankovic again does a lot of work between the midfield and striker. Would be happy to see him in the Norwich game squad.

Having seen quite a bit of these guys, I agree almost word for word with MJG's expert summary.

I'd just question, in a small way of business, the concerns about Sean Kavanagh's physique. At 1.74 he's about the same height as Ashley Cole, Clichy, Zabaletta to name the first three that came to mind. He's shown as 62.1kg on the FFC website, which would make him pretty lightweight, but they have been showing this figure since he was in the under 16s and I think he must have put on a bit of muscle since. He's never particularly struck me as a wimp.

I can only think a shortage of cover in the position, what with injuries and loans, together with his own recent injury, has stopped Grimmer being loaned out. A first rate prospect.

We seem to have goalkeepers coming out of our ears. I noticed the other day that the u16 goalie is an England international. If Stockers doesn't get himself a call (and why not? There's not that much competition and he did get a nod the last time he had a first team run) he'll find himself the only non-international keeper on our books!

[MJG]

Thanks guys, great insights... Anyone have any more to share?

I actually think Minkiwitz has improved over the last couple of months, but I do think he has missed the boat to progress at Fulham.
Any of GK's could do well and as we have seen they all develop a lot later so no rush with them.
Passley for me should be our second string RB. I really believe he could be our RB in 2 seasons.
Grimmer is now seen more as a CB but he needs to get out and get some loan games in Lge 1 or Champ.
Kavanagh & Richards are fine footballers but too small to make it in the prem unless they bulk up.
Arthurworrey reminds me of a young Zat Knight and hope he does well at Tranmere and then get some more games on loan next season.

LVC has won me over this season. neat and tidy he's not going to get the headlines like David & Dembele but does an important job of rotating the ball in midfield.
David should have been on the subs bench from the start of the season. Crying out for a midfielder like him in the squad.

Tankovic again does a lot of work between the midfield and striker. Would be happy to see him in the Norwich game squad.

Having seen quite a bit of these guys, I agree almost word for word with MJG's expert summary.

I'd just question, in a small way of business, the concerns about Sean Kavanagh's physique. At 1.74 he's about the same height as Ashley Cole, Clichy, Zabaletta to name the first three that came to mind. He's shown as 62.1kg on the FFC website, which would make him pretty lightweight, but they have been showing this figure since he was in the under 16s and I think he must have put on a bit of muscle since. He's never particularly struck me as a wimp.

I can only think a shortage of cover in the position, what with injuries and loans, together with his own recent injury, has stopped Grimmer being loaned out. A first rate prospect.

We seem to have goalkeepers coming out of our ears. I noticed the other day that the u16 goalie is an England international. If Stockers doesn't get himself a call (and why not? There's not that much competition and he did get a nod the last time he had a first team run) he'll find himself the only non-international keeper on our books!

Its just something about those guys on the left. They all link up well, play good football, have pace etc. But just all look too slight.
When I spoke to a scout at MP earlier in the season he pretty much said the same thing about them.
I hope they do get a loan out (as i hope they all can) if not this season then next, but still a long way off making it.

[FPT]

In Marcus Bettinelli, I think we have a future number one. He's got the physical and technical attributes needed in a goalkeeper; he's working his way up the leagues finely. One to look for.

Jack Grimmer is capable of becoming a Premier League quality centre back, but again, needs testing games. He's got a similar defensive style to Aaron Hughes, more of a sweeper that you need alongside a big man. He needs a loan, I wonder whether a Scottish Premiership team would take the gamble.

Sean Kavanagh interests me at left back. He's got a wonderful left foot, but I've also enjoyed watching Jordan Evans play there for the U18s and Tom Richards can play there when Kavanagh can't. I would like to invest time into Evans as a left back, he can be very effective.

We have a joy of midfielders; Ange-Freddy Plumain, Lasse Vigen Christensen and Chris David will all probably play Premier League football for Fulham. And underneath that, we also have Ronnie Minkwitz, Emerson Hyndman and Patrick Roberts.

We've got a wealth of young striker talent as well with Marcello Trotta, Cauley Woodrow, Muamer Tankovic,  Moussa Dembele and George Williams.



I honestly believe that the majority of these players will have a part to play for Fulham in the coming years. If we can find a blend of youth, experience and loyalty, we will have academy players that will make Southampton's look poor.

[FFC1987]

Big statement.

[elgreenio]

Liam Donnelly, Moussa Dembele, Pat Roberts. Nobody else.

[fulhamben]

no one mentioning mesca then?

[FFC1987]

Liam Donnelly, Moussa Dembele, Pat Roberts. Nobody else.

No Burn or David?

[JackyFulham90]

From what I've seen, Burn,  David, Plumain, Christensen, Dembele & Tankovic could play this season joined by Grimmer,  Mesca,  Roberts & George Williams next season

[elgreenio]

Liam Donnelly, Moussa Dembele, Pat Roberts. Nobody else.

No Burn or David?

Can't see it, not for Fulham anyway. Even I'm being massively optimistic by mentioning three players, can't think of many who find 3 in a couple year spell let alone the lists of 5 and 6 people mention

[MasterHaynes]

I agree with with MJG on Minkwitz now showing the form he displayed as captain of the U18. I disagree on Richards have seen him put in some solid tackles on much bigger players and comfortably come away with the ball, his strongest postion is left back which he doesn't always get to play. I like Islamovic when I've seen him play, moreso than Tankovic but not sure on eithers consistency. Cauley Woodrow I liken to Sherringham, good vision, brings players into the game and makes space for his partner, he and Dembele were a prolific partnership. Doesn't appear to have grown an inch in the last 2 years but looking at the comments coming out of Southend seems to be able to hold his own in Div 2 so could well feature for Fulham in the future.

Along with Roberts George Williams another winger is a very good prospect. O'Halloran also has pace and reads the game well, very similatr to Duff.  At Centre back I believe Donnelly will definitely make it , a younger version of Hughes, solid player reads the game extremely well and born leader. Burgess looks promising, surprisingly good with the ball for such a tall player. I like Sambou if he were taller you would liken him to Diop, solid ferocius and built like a brick wall, played his first U21 game before christmas so looks like he will progress to the U21 squad next year. Hyndman is a very good player and influential when he plays, just worry about his lack of pace but great at picking a pass, so who needs pace?

[elgreenio]

Cauley Woodrow I liken to Sherringham, good vision, brings players into the game and makes space for his partner, he and Dembele were a prolific partnership. Doesn't appear to have grown an inch in the last 2 years but looking at the comments coming out of Southend seems to be able to hold his own in Div 2 so could well feature for Fulham in the future.

He's not grown upwards but seriously bulked up in the summer.

[cmg]

Fascinating stuff, with all kinds of imponderables.
What do we understand by 'making it'? Playing for the First Team? Establishing a regular place? Becoming a 'star'?
The standards demanded by some of us are extraordinarally exacting. Just taking as an example Philippe Senderos - this bloke has 50 international caps and yet one or two even question his right to be a professional footballer!

The 'wastage' rate from junior to senior football is frightening. It is a considerable achievement to play even one game in the PL. We are kidding ourselves if we think that more than a few of the dazzling youngsters we see today will establish themselves in our (or any other) Top Tier side.

I had a look at a few recentish FA Youth Cup finals to see what happened to the youngsters. The results are quite sobering.

From 2010: Aston Villa, retain only 2 players from their runner-up squad. Both currently on loan
               Chelsea, the winners, did a bit better with Josh McEachran. Lalkovic is loaned to Walsall. But that's all they retain - the rest are dispersed throughout Europe from Brighton to Besiktas. A warning for young players courted by the Big clubs.

In 2009 Arsenal beat Liverpool.
           Arsenal had Jack Wiltshere and Emmanuel Frimpong.
           The rest ended up with: Colchester (2), Torquay, Birmingham, Yeovil, Nottingham F, Lorient (that's France, not Leyton), Bristol C, Dagenham and Charlton. Coquelin, on loan at Frieburg, is the only other one retained.

           Liverpool's major success story has been one Alexander Kacaniklic, who we know about. We have also known Buchtman (now at StPauli) and Dalla Valle (St Truden, Belgium). They also had Thomas Ince (Blackpool). They also have Wisdom on loan at Derby. The rest ended up at Aris(Australia), Norwich, Calisto, Jaro (Finland) and a few minor Blackpool squad men.

Going back a few years to  2006 we have Liverpool beating Manchester City and all these players' careers are now, of course, fully developed.
            Liverpool got 30 first team outings from Jay Spearing (now at Bolton) and 2 from Hobbs (Hull). Nobody else kicked a ball for Liverpool first team and are trying to make a living in the lower leagues.
             Manchester City unearthed a couple of gems in Micah Richards and Daniel Sturridge (for Liverpool's benefit). Michael Johnson played 37 games but has been plagued by injuries, Kelvin Etuhu (Barnsley) played 10 times as did Ched Evans before moving on to Sheffield Utd and then jail for rape. The rest are dispersed far and wide including such unlikely spots as Brentford (Logan) and Faroe Islands (Mouritson).

So, if we can produce more than a couple of stars togeher with a few regulars (and avoid rapists) we will be doing very well  indeed. Statistically the vast majority of our young hopefuls will end up in the lower leagues (hopefully not with us).

It's a tough life. Considering the number who set out on the road, anyone who makes it to the Premier League has achieved something really quite remarkable.

[MasterHaynes]

If he could grow 2-3 inches

Cauley Woodrow I liken to Sherringham, good vision, brings players into the game and makes space for his partner, he and Dembele were a prolific partnership. Doesn't appear to have grown an inch in the last 2 years but looking at the comments coming out of Southend seems to be able to hold his own in Div 2 so could well feature for Fulham in the future.

He's not grown upwards but seriously bulked up in the summer.

Hope he's a later developer,If he grows 2-3 inches taller he could be some player. I sprouted 4 inches between the ages of 18 & 21 fingers crossed he does the same