Ryan Tunnicliffe

[westcliff white]

there is a lot of disagreement over players but us all but it is just one persons opinion and everyone is entitled to that.

I personally would like to see a younger average age of the starting 11 but if FM thinks he should use the players he has then so be it. Tunni and Cole have been unlucky with the manager change but in some ways Ali Mac (if it is true we agreed a deal prior to Man Utd with FM) should not have let us go for these two players (if it is true as Kahn said was responsible for improving the squad in January. If they have been told and i say "IF" they have no future with us then it is a shame on us as a club, as these two lads have something to offer. Tunni maybe just a worker and Cole maybe be the unknown but we should see what they have before discarding.

[FFC1987]

Ryan Tunnicliffe (21) was not in the squad for WBA.
Alexander Kačaniklić (22) was not in the squad for WBA
Larnell Cole (20) was not in the squad for WBA

Muamer Tanković (19) was in the squad for WBA
Dan Burn (21) was in the squad for WBA
Pajtim Kasami (21) was in the squad for WBA
Lewis Holtby (23) was in the squad for WBA

So it clearly shows that Magath has no plan to use young players in his match day squads.

Also dropping Burn from the starting 11 and giving starts to out of form Parker and Brede.

who did fine.

Magath has had to make an instant choice. We've used something like 40 players this season and that's a nonsense.

We have to hope that he gets it right. Simple as - really no point in banging on about how he must choose A over B.

They both questionably did fine. Nothing more.

This is true but it helps to question whether we are falling into the same trap as before. I for one thought it was refreshing to finally tackle the issue of our aging team and the lack of energy within. Something that, from a short term look, isn't being addressed and in my opinion will take us down.

[Fulhampete]

So we welcome in a manager who is ignoring the positives of Renes lineups and reverting to the players who 1. Originally got us into this mess 2. Have very little to offer in the future 3. Suffer from lack of fitness and mobility 4. Are past caring.
This does not give me a good feeling. We are pretty well beyond the point of saving. At least plan for the future and don't lose what positives we had for a futile last ditch stand. Arresting any slide will be far more important than anything else. All the indicators point towards implosion.

[TonyGilroy]

I welcome Magath IF he succeeds and it's far too early to know that. I really don't care what methods he uses or choices he makes if he gets us enough points.

It's frankly ridiculous for any of us to pontificate about what needs to be done NOW given the state we're in. It'll be done Magath's way for better or for worse.

Reappraisal in the summer. For now we'd better hope that he knows what he's doing. FWIW I wouldn't have picked Hangeland or Parker over Burn or Kvist but I'm not interested in claiming that I know better.

[FFC1987]

So we welcome in a manager who is ignoring the positives of Renes lineups and reverting to the players who 1. Originally got us into this mess 2. Have very little to offer in the future 3. Suffer from lack of fitness and mobility 4. Are past caring.
This does not give me a good feeling. We are pretty well beyond the point of saving. At least plan for the future and don't lose what positives we had for a futile last ditch stand. Arresting any slide will be far more important than anything else. All the indicators point towards implosion.

This is how I feel on the matter. He said he did his research and criticised Rene for some of his tactics and setting out a team to 'concede' possession. Pot and kettle there after WBA surely!

[FFC1987]

I welcome Magath IF he succeeds and it's far too early to know that. I really don't care what methods he uses or choices he makes if he gets us enough points.

It's frankly ridiculous for any of us to pontificate about what needs to be done NOW given the state we're in. It'll be done Magath's way for better or for worse.

Reappraisal in the summer. For now we'd better hope that he knows what he's doing. FWIW I wouldn't have picked Hangeland or Parker over Burn or Kvist but I'm not interested in claiming that I know better.

I can see you don't feel now is the time for debate. I'll conclude my interaction in this debate with this. In making the change in the manner in which we did, I feel we have gone backwards and not learnt from the short termism which got us in this mess.

[TonyGilroy]

I certainly don't mind debate and there's a fair old chance that you're right.

I was shocked at Rene's sacking but on reflexion he really wasn't achieving so now we're doing things differently.

Like it or not it'll be Magath's way for better or worse and it's very premature to judge him on one match. Rene's first match was great but mostly downhill from there.

[Two Ton Ted]

As good as a performance Rene's first match was, we still lost to a late goal.

If Magath can do anything to inprove the stamina in the team to be able to run for 90 minutes, then his appointment will be a success over the last 2 incumbents.

[Pluto]

Much prefer him to Parker as the high work rate midfield destroyer. Disappointing.

he's played 2 games wide almost as a second RB. What makes you think he is a midfield destroyer to replace Parker?

My thoughts exactly

Well for one that's his natural position and role, and basically the job he did in the games he played except on the right rather than in the middle. But secondly, and more importantly, because he can't possibly be any worse.

I still dont see how you can view those two appearances as in any way the answer to our problems in CM.
I think as TG says below, there has been an issue with FM coming in. He's probably pissed off that hes been persuaded to come down to London by Rene only for the coach who has known since he was nine to be sacked after a week or two.

I never said he was the answer to our problems in central midifled, only that he's better than Parker. Kvist might well be the answer and I'd use Tunicliffe as backup to him or to bring off the bench when we need some youthful energy.

[Pluto]

So we welcome in a manager who is ignoring the positives of Renes lineups and reverting to the players who 1. Originally got us into this mess 2. Have very little to offer in the future 3. Suffer from lack of fitness and mobility 4. Are past caring.
This does not give me a good feeling. We are pretty well beyond the point of saving. At least plan for the future and don't lose what positives we had for a futile last ditch stand. Arresting any slide will be far more important than anything else. All the indicators point towards implosion.

:plus one: This lot have been getting us nowhere for two seasons now- what reason does Magath see to suggest that they can do the business now rather than hungry young players like Tunicliffe, especially after only being here a week.

In my view this is poor management, Magath hasn't been in the job long enough to make an assessment on Tunicliffe or Cole, and hasn't seen them play for us. Why take a chance on the has beens based purely on reputation and isolate young guys who could potentially help us out?

[FFCByTheRiver]

What we need to do is change the laws so that we can play all of our players, all the time, and then we can all be happy.

[TonyGilroy]

And if the young players muck it up it'll be "why did you ditch the experienced players?"

Magath has picked those players he thinks he can most rely on and the difference hopefully will be the way he sets the team up.

Any of us may think we know better and Magath may well fail to improve things but it's just possible that he knows what he's doing. If he doesn't we can be quick to jump on him but why not see how the next few games go?

[LBNo11]

...we have no choice but to give Magath more time than he did Tunnicliffe and Cole...

[TonyGilroy]

If Magath wants a core group of 18 to 20 to work with then including Tunnicliffe or Cole would have meant leaving out maybe Kasami or Kakaniklic.

It's choices and they may turn out to be bad ones but the idea of concentrating on a smaller group of players and drilling them into a system makes sense to me.

[Pluto]

If Magath wants a core group of 18 to 20 to work with then including Tunnicliffe or Cole would have meant leaving out maybe Kasami or Kakaniklic.

It's choices and they may turn out to be bad ones but the idea of concentrating on a smaller group of players and drilling them into a system makes sense to me.

Oh come on I'm sure he could have fit one or two extra players into training. Those numbers aren't even sensible- what if we get a couple of injuries? Surely we'll want to replace them with players he and the rest of the team are familiar with from training?

[FFC1987]

And if the young players muck it up it'll be "why did you ditch the experienced players?"

Magath has picked those players he thinks he can most rely on and the difference hopefully will be the way he sets the team up.

Any of us may think we know better and Magath may well fail to improve things but it's just possible that he knows what he's doing. If he doesn't we can be quick to jump on him but why not see how the next few games go?

The flaw is this logic is that we've already had 2 seasons of utter dross from some of the experienced lot. Playing the youth would only assert the view that all the players are dross. At least they all would have been given a crack of the whip.

[Burt]

Looks like Magath is in a no-win situation then... Damned by some if he does, damned by the rest if he doesn't...

I would like to think that he does know a little more about selections, tactics, etc. than me and on that basis I will let him get on with it  :dft011:

[mccscratch]

I just do not understand people getting upset at a manager hired to escape relegation who is playing players he thinks are up for the fight...

did anyone actually see anything from Tunnicliffe that made you think he should be playing over Dejagah or anyone in the central midfield? I thought the kid was just a body with no ability to pick a pass.... there is a reason Manure let him leave at such a young age... Cole is a bit more intriguing to me because of his ability to get around players out wide... Ryan does not have that ability and while he may turn into something serviceable... he was not going to save this team this season...

people get such a hard on for young players... is it because you think they are going to be the next superstar? At Fulham... they usually are not... we don't and can't buy those sort players... Cole and Tunnicliffe may end up being future contributors but the chances of either being well above average prem players is unlikely... heck look at Kaca... he is better than both IMHO and he struggles and disappears in matches all the time.

[Pluto]

I just do not understand people getting upset at a manager hired to escape relegation who is playing players he thinks are up for the fight...

did anyone actually see anything from Tunnicliffe that made you think he should be playing over Dejagah or anyone in the central midfield? I thought the kid was just a body with no ability to pick a pass.... there is a reason Manure let him leave at such a young age... Cole is a bit more intriguing to me because of his ability to get around players out wide... Ryan does not have that ability and while he may turn into something serviceable... he was not going to save this team this season...

people get such a hard on for young players... is it because you think they are going to be the next superstar? At Fulham... they usually are not... we don't and can't buy those sort players... Cole and Tunnicliffe may end up being future contributors but the chances of either being well above average prem players is unlikely... heck look at Kaca... he is better than both IMHO and he struggles and disappears in matches all the time.

You don't understand because you're just assuming we all agree with your opinion on Tunicliffe. Some of us DO think they've seen something in him that makes him worth playing over the likes of Parker. Some of us DO think he has plenty of ability. Some of us DO think he played well in the games he played.

No one's saying he's the next superstar. We're just peeved because he hasn't had a fair chance. We don't see why Magath is getting rid of the lad after only one week when our other central midfield options have proven how poor they are time and time again. Surely he's at least shown enough that he's worth keeping around? If we need to get rid lets get rid of the has beens that have shown their lack of quality, effort and fight over and over again for the last two seasons. For the record I include Kaca in that- he has been woeful.

[FFC1987]

Looks like Magath is in a no-win situation then... Damned by some if he does, damned by the rest if he doesn't...

I would like to think that he does know a little more about selections, tactics, etc. than me and on that basis I will let him get on with it  :dft011:

No quarms with that. Not many have a CV like him and would manage Fulham.

I still stick by it though. Trusting experience and ignoring youth is a previously failed strategy. Lets hope he doesn't stick to this strategy. As Mr Gale says, its still early days.

As for mccscratch comments - Do you think its wise to stick with Parker and Brede over the likes of Burn and Kvist based on what we've seen against decent opposition and there recent form?

I think we (probably me) took this tread away from Tunnicliffe and made it more about youth, avg aged teams and the old guard. I'm not saying these guys are superstars but I consider myself perceptive enough to come to the conclusion that Burn should start and the only reason he isn't is because of his age. If Burns getting dropped after his recent displays, the youth have no hope in the current setup which is a shame.