FULHAM'S MAD DESCENT UNDER MAGATH

[jags24]

To blame the players for last season's debacle is way off the mark.  I doubt many could have performed under those circumstances.
Purely and simply, the problem lies behind the management door.  Do we have to relive the pain?
Jol's incompetence in believing he could keep Dempsey and Dembele followed by the lunacy of bringing in Berbatov to sit in Ruiz's position thereby destroying the effectiveness of both.  Not replacing Danny Murphy until the Ancient Greek and even more ancient Malian came along in a flurry of frees.
That was just the start of it.  
Enter the real villain stage left. Mac the knife.  Whilst praising his appointment Jol to the rafters, Macintosh brings in Meulensteen as his sidekick.  Blind Freddy could see it was as his replacement.  Now for all of you who thought or think this was normal, have you ever worked for a company or even a department where you have two bosses?  What do you think that does for morale and productivity?
Soon enough, the Mac and Kahn realise their mistake by following the obvious path of firing the general Jol replacing him with his lieutenant.
Then the Mac steps up his game of corporate suicide with unseemly haste by bringing in not one but two managerial usurpers in turn undermining Rene's credibility and his position.
Back to your own careers, has this ever happened to you? If it has, ask yourselves, how did it affect company morale?  How much work gets done both by highly paid stars of the company or by lowly paid staffers?  Answer.  Not a lot.
But it didn't stop there did it.  Mac and Kahn stab Rene in the gorbals, bring in Magath, fire Wilkishley and the entire second set of coaching staff.  In the meantime, they (and most of you) expect the poor old players to deal with this as if it was an every day occurrence.
Once again, put yourselves in that situation; ask people who have suffered such managerial revolving door madness.  I've seen it several times in my lifetime.  The first thing that happens is that people stop working.  They huddle in corners and worry about where and when the axe falls next, wondering who will be their next boss.  Productivity?  Results?  Out the window.
So please, lay off the players. They were and are pawns in the game. Concentrate on the route cause of the problem.  Management.
 Nogood "Mac the knife be the one who forked us, isit" Boyo

Completely correct.  Mac has been awful, as far as I'm concerned.  He must be a brilliant politician to still be working there after last year's debacle.  Though I think some blame also has to go to Al-Fayed for not doling out enough transfer funds last summer.

[Baszab]

Hear Hear absolutely agree with last 3 postings - but RM wasn't a manager - he was an attacking coach - did no defensive work at all

[NogoodBoyo]

Jags24 - you are right that Chairman Mo bears some responsibility.  I know from a friend of mine who worked with him at the corner shop that he "would have bitten the arm off anyone who was willing to buy Fulham" off him after his aborted move from the Cottage.  That was years before the eventual sale, but the purse strings were tightened from that moment on.
However, the money he invested in getting us to the Premier Division ahead of schedule was legendary.  So, I cut him a lot of slack.  Likewise, Kahn has spent big, even if very misguidedly.
Macintosh?  I respect him for building an amazing Academy - basically, bringing in Huw Jennings and his staff and investing in that area, but his introduction and management of the "club managers" has been virally destructive.  
Kahn should recognize that and move him on before he does any more damage.  I suspect Magath is Macintosh's sword of Damacles.  That's not a very reliable thread in my opinion, but that's for another day, another thread.
Nogood "he Macked it he did, isit" Boyo

[jags24]

Jags24 - you are right that Chairman Mo bears some responsibility.  I know from a friend of mine who worked with him at the corner shop that he "would have bitten the arm off anyone who was willing to buy Fulham" off him after his aborted move from the Cottage.  That was years before the eventual sale, but the purse strings were tightened from that moment on.
However, the money he invested in getting us to the Premier Division ahead of schedule was legendary.  So, I cut him a lot of slack.  Likewise, Kahn has spent big, even if very misguidedly.
Macintosh?  I respect him for building an amazing Academy - basically, bringing in Huw Jennings and his staff and investing in that area, but his introduction and management of the "club managers" has been virally destructive. 
Kahn should recognize that and move him on before he does any more damage.  I suspect Magath is Macintosh's sword of Damacles.  That's not a very reliable thread in my opinion, but that's for another day, another thread.
Nogood "he Macked it he did, isit" Boyo

Yeah, I agree completely, and I think Mac knows that if Magath fails, he'll be the next one to go.

[Roberty]

To blame the players for last season's debacle is way off the mark.  I doubt many could have performed under those circumstances.
Purely and simply, the problem lies behind the management door.  Do we have to relive the pain?
Jol's incompetence in believing he could keep Dempsey and Dembele followed by the lunacy of bringing in Berbatov to sit in Ruiz's position thereby destroying the effectiveness of both.  Not replacing Danny Murphy until the Ancient Greek and even more ancient Malian came along in a flurry of frees.
That was just the start of it. 
Enter the real villain stage left. Mac the knife.  Whilst praising his appointment Jol to the rafters, Macintosh brings in Meulensteen as his sidekick.  Blind Freddy could see it was as his replacement.  Now for all of you who thought or think this was normal, have you ever worked for a company or even a department where you have two bosses?  What do you think that does for morale and productivity?
Soon enough, the Mac and Kahn realise their mistake by following the obvious path of firing the general Jol replacing him with his lieutenant.
Then the Mac steps up his game of corporate suicide with unseemly haste by bringing in not one but two managerial usurpers in turn undermining Rene's credibility and his position.
Back to your own careers, has this ever happened to you? If it has, ask yourselves, how did it affect company morale?  How much work gets done both by highly paid stars of the company or by lowly paid staffers?  Answer.  Not a lot.
But it didn't stop there did it.  Mac and Kahn stab Rene in the gorbals, bring in Magath, fire Wilkishley and the entire second set of coaching staff.  In the meantime, they (and most of you) expect the poor old players to deal with this as if it was an every day occurrence.
Once again, put yourselves in that situation; ask people who have suffered such managerial revolving door madness.  I've seen it several times in my lifetime.  The first thing that happens is that people stop working.  They huddle in corners and worry about where and when the axe falls next, wondering who will be their next boss.  Productivity?  Results?  Out the window.
So please, lay off the players. They were and are pawns in the game. Concentrate on the route cause of the problem.  Management.
  Nogood "Mac the knife be the one who forked us, isit" Boyo

I did not see one of our mangers take the field last season - the lack of effort on show was the fault of the players.
You might remember our former big hope Briggs saying he was tired after being made to run by Magath - duh !!
Our highly paid group of professional players were a disgrace and there were plenty shouting that from the Hammy End

For the record I don't believe that any of the "revolving door managers" would have played any of the academy players we saw last week.
Sadly not a win but for the first time in two years a ray of hope

As far as heads for the chop is concerned it is rarely the man at the top who loses his
There is usually someone below who made a worse job of it - in our case the player - and it is they who get the chop
Having said that his might be next if the current plan fails.

[Arthur]

To blame the players for last season's debacle is way off the mark.  I doubt many could have performed under those circumstances.

Once again, put yourselves in that situation; ask people who have suffered such managerial revolving door madness.  I've seen it several times in my lifetime.  The first thing that happens is that people stop working.  They huddle in corners and worry about where and when the axe falls next, wondering who will be their next boss.  Productivity?  Results?  Out the window.

The point in the season at which it became 'managerial revolving door madness', as you put it, was the day the Club sacked Meulensteen. Two managerial changes in a season is rare; one most certainly is not.

Under Jol: a mere 10 points from 13 games. Under Meulensteen: a mere 10 points from 13 games. Under Magath: a mere 12 points from 12 games.

Players can't be affected by 'managerial revolving door madness' before it happens. Yet the team's performances were nothing if not consistent throughout the season. (Consistently poor, that is.)

I am not trying to absolve those higher up the heirachy; I simply think that your eloquent prose masks a defence of the players that doesn't stack up.

[grandad]

I can´t wait for our 1st win & then I will post a topic "Fulham´s fantastic rise under Magath". Watch this space on Saturday.

[Roberty]

I can´t wait for our 1st win & then I will post a topic "Fulham´s fantastic rise under Magath". Watch this space on Saturday.

I did a topic Megath Praised earlier in the week but it has gone off the first page - this seems to be stuck here - please make it go away

[NogoodBoyo]

Management chose and management chooses the players.  My point is just that.  Management is firmly to blame for the woes that may well continue to haunt this club until  the whole executive structure (including the board) is cleaned out.
I suppose I have to come clean in declaring that Magath is not the man to take the club back up in my humble opinion.  He failed in what he was brought in to do.  I'm delighted he is introducing youth, but I won't be so delighted - neither will the young players - if he continues to chop and change, drop or move those young players after just one game.  His style will kill the golden goose.
But my beef is with the man who chose and appointed him.  I doubt that was Kahn.
Nogood "sticking the knife in the Mac, isit" Boyo

[Roberty]

I had never heard of Felix until he turned up on our door step, but he has been like a breath of fresh air round here.
Given there is no evidence one way or the other about Felix's ability to take us back up, there is nothing much to say
The recruitment policy for the playing staff was not invented by Jol it was in place for some time before that and was the reason that Hughes left in a huff.

We have played ONE game so far - it is difficult see what Felix has chopped and changed - he's only picked ONE team
As far as the preseason is concerned it is not competitive and just a period to try players out and that is what he did

I am also at a loss to see where geese come into this - we had the mystic chicks two season ago but a fox got them

[jags24]

Management chose and management chooses the players.  My point is just that.  Management is firmly to blame for the woes that may well continue to haunt this club until  the whole executive structure (including the board) is cleaned out.
I suppose I have to come clean in declaring that Magath is not the man to take the club back up in my humble opinion.  He failed in what he was brought in to do.  I'm delighted he is introducing youth, but I won't be so delighted - neither will the young players - if he continues to chop and change, drop or move those young players after just one game.  His style will kill the golden goose.
But my beef is with the man who chose and appointed him.  I doubt that was Kahn.
Nogood "sticking the knife in the Mac, isit" Boyo

Yeah, I think you're the best poster on this forum.  Magath does not seem like the right fellow to develop young players, and as far as I can tell, he has already mismanaged and publicly criticized his top striker, McCormack.  I do think Burn needs to be put in the lineup, but you're right, last year Magath did chop and change a lot.  The team needs stability going forward.  If it doesn't work out this year, then one year under Magath isn't a bad way to give some fitness training and discipline to the youth players, but ultimately, I would like to see a manager with strong abilities to truly develop youngsters and who is going to bring a more positive attitude, being less frank in his comments to the media of individual players.

[Burt]

Hey here's a crazy thought...

Why don't we give Felix more than one game before writing him off?

[jags24]

Hey here's a crazy thought...

Why don't we give Felix more than one game before writing him off?

It's been more than one game.  What about last year?  It's a long enough time that people are going to have a sense of what he is about... some people are going to like that, others not.  Personally, I think he ought to be given the year to prove himself with his new squad, even if I am not a believer in his approach.  The club needs stability.

[Woolly Mammoth]

Unfortunately one game is one game too many, he was written off the day he put Dan Burn at right back. Yes introducing youngsters is to his credit, as is his fitness regime, his lack of man management skills, is evident and will not go away, this will contribute to his downfall and his irritating tinkering with the lineup from week to week, I expect Patrick Roberts to be in goal this week, and Jesse at Centre Half, I  sorry bit one game is more than enough, I thought the team played well v Ipswich, and the passing movements at high tempo, and one touch football made Ipswich look like a team out of the dark ages. But to pick Dembele who is a great prospect but not ready yet, over and above Woodrow Roberts and Rodallega was a shocking error of Judgement, which seems to a pattern there with his choice of starting lineups. Very bizarre, plus starting with the undercooked and unfit McCormack was another error, when he has plenty of other options. Sorry but I wouldn't out him in charge of my Sunday morning team, he will be off back to the Fatherland before the season is done, I get no satisfaction declaring that, but a deaf and dumb man living in a cave on Mars, with his eyes shut and his fingers in his ears can also see this unfolding. If Magath keeps the team stable and doesn't chop and change for the sake of it, he may stand a chance, but he will tinker as it's in his D & A.

[jmh]

Unfortunately one game is one game too many, he was written off the day he put Dan Burn at right back. Yes introducing youngsters is to his credit, as is his fitness regime, his lack of man management skills, is evident and will not go away, this will contribute to his downfall and his irritating tinkering with the lineup from week to week, I expect Patrick Roberts to be in goal this week, and Jesse at Centre Half, I  sorry bit one game is more than enough, I thought the team played well v Ipswich, and the passing movements at high tempo, and one touch football made Ipswich look like a team out of the dark ages. But to pick Dembele who is a great prospect but not ready yet, over and above Woodrow Roberts and Rodallega was a shocking error of Judgement, which seems to a pattern there with his choice of starting lineups. Very bizarre, plus starting with the undercooked and unfit McCormack was another error, when he has plenty of other options. Sorry but I wouldn't out him in charge of my Sunday morning team, he will be off back to the Fatherland before the season is done, I get no satisfaction declaring that, but a deaf and dumb man living in a cave on Mars, with his eyes shut and his fingers in his ears can also see this unfolding. If Magath keeps the team stable and doesn't chop and change for the sake of it, he may stand a chance, but he will tinker as it's in his D & A.

Man, are you ever a broken record.  Nice job with "D & A" by the way.   :005:

[NogoodBoyo]

Hey here's a crazy thought...

Why don't we give Felix more than one game before writing him off?

Hi Burt,
Long time no speak.  I haven't written Magath off.  I just have an enormous distaste for bully management.  I once worked for a small Australian with a massive brain.  His entire management creed was to humiliate and torment his staff with his superior intellect.  The good employees quickly found other jobs leaving him with youngsters, yes men and no hopers whose lives he made absolutely miserable.
Sound familiar?
I just don't think that's either the Fulham way or the management philosophy of an organisation that's geared for success in the long term.
But, as I laid out in my original piece, my principal complaint lies with the management who got us into this mess in the first place.  That's Mac.
Nogood "time to get your coat and hat, Mac, isit" Boyo

[jags24]

Hey here's a crazy thought...

Why don't we give Felix more than one game before writing him off?

Hi Burt,
Long time no speak.  I haven't written Magath off.  I just have an enormous distaste for bully management.  I once worked for a small Australian with a massive brain.  His entire management creed was to humiliate and torment his staff with his superior intellect.  The good employees quickly found other jobs leaving him with youngsters, yes men and no hopers whose lives he made absolutely miserable.
Sound familiar?
I just don't think that's either the Fulham way or the management philosophy of an organisation that's geared for success in the long term.
But, as I laid out in my original piece, my principal complaint lies with the management who got us into this mess in the first place.  That's Mac.
Nogood "time to get your coat and hat, Mac, isit" Boyo

Amen to that, man.

[Logicalman]

Hey here's a crazy thought...

Why don't we give Felix more than one game before writing him off?

Hi Burt,
Long time no speak.  I haven't written Magath off.  I just have an enormous distaste for bully management.  I once worked for a small Australian with a massive brain.  His entire management creed was to humiliate and torment his staff with his superior intellect.  The good employees quickly found other jobs leaving him with youngsters, yes men and no hopers whose lives he made absolutely miserable.
Sound familiar?
I just don't think that's either the Fulham way or the management philosophy of an organisation that's geared for success in the long term.
But, as I laid out in my original piece, my principal complaint lies with the management who got us into this mess in the first place.  That's Mac.
Nogood "time to get your coat and hat, Mac, isit" Boyo

Hey Nogood, perhaps you have a point, though here's a slightly different take on it. If Felix IS that much of a strong character, then perhaps that is what is required to abate the intentions of Mac, and start putting the club back on an even keel again. I don't think many people will argue that Mac has royally nutted this all up, especially his purchase of the glue man in January, and so I am willing to let Felix have his rope, and if it all goes rats, then it will become a noose, if not, then we are all winners.

[ToodlesMcToot]

To blame the players for last season's debacle is way off the mark.  I doubt many could have performed under those circumstances.
Purely and simply, the problem lies behind the management door.  Do we have to relive the pain?
Jol's incompetence in believing he could keep Dempsey and Dembele followed by the lunacy of bringing in Berbatov to sit in Ruiz's position thereby destroying the effectiveness of both.  Not replacing Danny Murphy until the Ancient Greek and even more ancient Malian came along in a flurry of frees.
That was just the start of it.  
Enter the real villain stage left. Mac the knife.  Whilst praising his appointment Jol to the rafters, Macintosh brings in Meulensteen as his sidekick.  Blind Freddy could see it was as his replacement.  Now for all of you who thought or think this was normal, have you ever worked for a company or even a department where you have two bosses?  What do you think that does for morale and productivity?
Soon enough, the Mac and Kahn realise their mistake by following the obvious path of firing the general Jol replacing him with his lieutenant.
Then the Mac steps up his game of corporate suicide with unseemly haste by bringing in not one but two managerial usurpers in turn undermining Rene's credibility and his position.
Back to your own careers, has this ever happened to you? If it has, ask yourselves, how did it affect company morale?  How much work gets done both by highly paid stars of the company or by lowly paid staffers?  Answer.  Not a lot.
But it didn't stop there did it.  Mac and Kahn stab Rene in the gorbals, bring in Magath, fire Wilkishley and the entire second set of coaching staff.  In the meantime, they (and most of you) expect the poor old players to deal with this as if it was an every day occurrence.
Once again, put yourselves in that situation; ask people who have suffered such managerial revolving door madness.  I've seen it several times in my lifetime.  The first thing that happens is that people stop working.  They huddle in corners and worry about where and when the axe falls next, wondering who will be their next boss.  Productivity?  Results?  Out the window.
So please, lay off the players. They were and are pawns in the game. Concentrate on the route cause of the problem.  Management.
 Nogood "Mac the knife be the one who forked us, isit" Boyo

Management chose and management chooses the players.  My point is just that.  Management is firmly to blame for the woes that may well continue to haunt this club until  the whole executive structure (including the board) is cleaned out.
I suppose I have to come clean in declaring that Magath is not the man to take the club back up in my humble opinion.  He failed in what he was brought in to do.  I'm delighted he is introducing youth, but I won't be so delighted - neither will the young players - if he continues to chop and change, drop or move those young players after just one game.  His style will kill the golden goose.
But my beef is with the man who chose and appointed him.  I doubt that was Kahn.
Nogood "sticking the knife in the Mac, isit" Boyo

Not trying to pick a fight. I actually agree with much of what you say. However, I'm wondering why you label Magath a failure if, as you propose and was fairly evident on the field, the players had already quit on the club.

[grandad]

Thank goodness nearly all Woolly Mammoths are extinct. One to go.