NFR: The morals of the game under scrutiny?

[Mokes]

Mr. Mokes,
You are not wrong in anything you say but it is a sad reflection of society and today's "political correctness" that this guy might not get a second chance. He made a mistake. Who knows what the circumstances were?  I think back 30 years and by today's standards? I and my mates could have been in some trouble. As I said, what were the circumstances.?

He will get a second chance, It's not like his whole life is thrown away. He will be released and it's up to him to make of it what he can now. Why would any club want to tarnish their reputation by signing him. No one is saying that he is not entitled to any decent standard of living, simply that he has blown his chance at being a big sports star (or public figure) and will more than likely have to get himself a regular job.

Believe it or not I am very opposed to over the top political correctness and am a firm supporter of common sense, but I honestly cannot see any club subjecting themselves to the torment they would receive for signing him when there is so much talent out there. 

[Logicalman]

Interesting reactions tho this story, looks like we are generally split between whether this guy should be allowed to ply his trade, or whether we have the right to deny him that opportunity.

We all know the CJS gets it wrong as many times as they get it right, though I was basing the question on the idea that it got it right this time.

I believe that only the Blades can make the final decision, inasmuch that their main sponsors will no doubt chirp up and provide them the required (fiscal) guidance, though on a personal note, if the Blades and their fans can live with it, being those that have the greatest non-commercial interest, then he should be permitted back in. If we each boycotted every entertainer that has been convicted of an offence, then we would have pretty boring lives.

So, I guess the next question is: If he does make that comeback, how many here would refuse to attend a competitive match against Fulham that he was in the squad for, on that basis alone?

[Me-ate-Live, innit??]

It was a strange case, I believe the bloke was stitched up 
Without going too much into it ...I would watch him play,
the bloke should be left get on with his life

[love4ffc]

I don't know all the particulars for this case, However for convicted rapist this is not a tough one for me. 

First -  I agree with mccscratch.  There are cases of false accusations that have ruined a man's life and this has become a huge hot button topic on campus universities across the U.S.

On the other hand this is an unforgivable crime.  

Second - ALL Professional Sports Players are role models whether they want to be or not.  It's not the media who declares pro sports athletes role models.  It's us the public and it starts at a young age.  Parents introduce their kids to sports.  The kids see how the parents admire pro athletes and unless told otherwise, can't help but come to the conclusion that they also should look up to and aspire to be like those pro athletes.  

Third – Do you allow a convicted rapist back into pro sports?  On the one hand if the person is rehabilitated he should allow to be a productive member of society and make a living.  On the other hand he is a convicted rapist.  You can never take that back for the victim so why this person should be allowed to ever enjoy and make money at something that he enjoys would just be wrong.  

Obviously for me the answer is NO.  He should not be allowed back in the game.  

[love4ffc]

So, I guess the next question is: If he does make that comeback, how many here would refuse to attend a competitive match against Fulham that he was in the squad for, on that basis alone?

No I would not attend the match.  I also would not resale the tickets to allow someone else watch the match. 

[Logicalman]

It was a strange case, I believe the bloke was stitched up  
Without going too much into it ...I would watch him play,
the bloke should be left get on with his life

I have to agree, from just the stuff I have read (and by no means does that cover it all) I was surprised that the CPS took the case forwards at all, and getting a conviction - to me - appeared to be a miscarriage of justice. As said, there is likely a lot more info out there, and without reading the trial transcripts it's impossible to know what was in evidence and not.

Would I see the guy play? Yep, sorry if that offends some, but I don't believe my attending such a match, considering he is one of some 22 to 26 players out there, does not condone his behaviour.

[love4ffc]

Since we are on this topic here is an old American joke about the Dallas Cowboys (American Football Team in Texas for those who don't know) from the early 80's.  

The joke was:

Why do the Dallas Cowboys have to hold their preseason training in the state of Tennessee? 

Because all convicted Texas felons are in Tennessee prisons. 

The point is in the 80's the Dallas Cowboys were known for being the party bad boys.  Back then the Cowboys did anything they wanted and got away with most of it.  All because the team was so successful and the players were admired for their abilities. 

[Holders]

In the UK in the 70s and 80s certain "celebrities" did what they wanted and got away with it - until very recently. As others have said, this is a confused issue - there's an element of "there but for the grace of the gods go I", the goalposts have moved a bit since those days and there's two sides to everything.

But this is not the place to re-examine the evidence and verdict on the basis of what's on his website!

I think it comes down to: the evidence was tested in the accepted place and a verdict reached, rightly or wrongly; he's served his appointed time, enough or not enough; he's now free to ply his trade.

Whether he should do this is not for this forum - though it passes the time to discuss it. In practical terms  think it would come down to whether a team would want to play someone who would probably be barracked by opposing fans every game he plays and if he is big enough to cope with that without it affecting his game too much. In these commercial times the sponsors may want an input as well.

In any other walk of life he could take a job where no-one has heard of him, be re-integrated and soon everyone would forget. In his chosen trade that's not the case but then, there's not many jobs where people pay to watch you work and have the opportunity to barrack you.

People like Jimmy Savile and Rolf Harris would hardly be able to go back on the stage now, either.

With the rewards comes the price. He can get a job shelf-stacking and no-one will ever know who he is.

[Deanothefulhamfan]

If he went to Sheff United, he would be hated at first, lot's of booing from the crowd etc, but if he does what he does  best which is score goals, and helped earn sheff united promotion he would be a hero... Football fans are a fickle bunch.

He has done a crime, and served his time.... I don't see why he should not be able to play football if he is good enough to do so. He will have to deal with all the abuse on a week by week basis nobody else.

[BarryP]

If he went to Sheff United, he would be hated at first, lot's of booing from the crowd etc, but if he does what he does  best which is score goals, and helped earn sheff united promotion he would be a hero... Football fans are a fickle bunch.

He has done a crime, and served his time.... I don't see why he should not be able to play football if he is good enough to do so. He will have to deal with all the abuse on a week by week basis nobody else.

I agree Deano. Rape is a heinous crime but the criminal justice system should be aimed at rehabilitation and once a sentence has been served an individual should be free to live their lives barring extenuating circumstances.

As for the criminal justice system getting things wrong at times I watched it nearly happen in a rape case with no physical evidence to a friend. The victim of the crime gave the police her eyewitness testimony and the police canvessed the area for other witness testimony.  Witness testimony identified my friend as someone who regularly visited the victim's apartment complex but could not place him at the complex on that day.  At first the police only wanted to ask him some questions and then after multiple visits asked him to take place in a lineup. At first he refused because the police were acting "funny" toward him in the later visits but a quick call to his attorney resulted in his attorney talking to the police and being assured they only wanted to rule him out because he did not come close to matching the victims description of her assailant.  On the day of the police lineup the victim identified my friend as her assailant even though her sworn statement taken nearly a month earlier described the attacker as being almost a foot shorter and having a different hair color than my friend. Based primarily on the lineup identification the jury debated the verdict for what he described as a few very long days before returning a not guilty verdict.

My friend was found not guilty but his life was none the less changed. For a time he had to give up his ministry of visiting some of the elderly individuals he regularly visited including the one who lived in the same apartment complex as the rape victim.  It took several years before people stopped trying to politely pry into things I never asked my friend so I can't imagine how long he has had to endure the whispers or accusations.

My true sympathy though is reserved for the victim who as far as I know never received any closure to her case.

The moral of this true story is there are potential victims on both sides of the story if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Deanothefulhamfan]

Sounds like your friend has had a pretty rough ride, but equally as the victim in this case, who as it sounds was clutching at straws, in hoping this would form a sort of closure for her.

[Berserker]

At least the Blades guy was punished and has served his time for the crime he committed. There are a number of footballers we have watched, and thousands will still do, that committed crimes that they were not correctly, if at all punished for, and they probably got off because they were footballers.

[Me-ate-Live, innit??]

have anyone  read this :
http://chedevans.com/

As I said a strange one.    but I think anyone who has a young  lad,  going off with his pals to Ayia Napa or some such place, and you do not have that talk Titled  : The Minute that can destroy your whole life ............................you are not doing you job as a parent. 
 

[Logicalman]

Barry, the unfortunate fact of life is that there are always both coppers and CPS out there that have a conviction-at-all-costs belief, and the actual guilt is purely on the basis of probabilities where there are no other suspects. That said, always bad apples in every barrel, and we're never gonna fix those issues.

What was interesting in this story is that the Blades fans BACK the players return, and the petition was started by some other party, and I believe there are no comparisons whatsoever between Evans and those such as Harris/Saville, especially as the latter relied on their personalities as much as their skill.

[Nick Bateman]

As Talksport's Jason Cundy always says, footballers are among the worst in society and should not be role models.  But unfortunately, they ARE.  So when one sees players walking around like the "tattooed-man" it makes young people think this is the way to be.

I felt Marlon King should have been kicked out the sport, but he had TWO transgressions and one needs to know the exact case of Ched Evans to judge.

[domprague]

That's the point of the trial. Twelve people listened to the evidence and decided, beyond all reasonable doubt, that he did it. He hasn't produced any fresh evidence or appealed on any other grounds so we can say that he's guilty. End of story.

Unless there was DNA evidence or such obvious witness testimony I am very reluctant to paint a guy a rapist just because someone claimed he is well aftter the fact.... the girl was smashed.... all of the evidence points to that.... it seems all three parties involved were well over the "drunk" line.... people do stupid things when they are drunk...

the question is who crossed the line or did they all willingly cross it together?

[Whitesideup]

In the UK in the 70s and 80s certain "celebrities" did what they wanted and got away with it - until very recently. As others have said, this is a confused issue - there's an element of "there but for the grace of the gods go I", the goalposts have moved a bit since those days and there's two sides to everything.

But this is not the place to re-examine the evidence and verdict on the basis of what's on his website!

I think it comes down to: the evidence was tested in the accepted place and a verdict reached, rightly or wrongly; he's served his appointed time, enough or not enough; he's now free to ply his trade.

Whether he should do this is not for this forum - though it passes the time to discuss it. In practical terms  think it would come down to whether a team would want to play someone who would probably be barracked by opposing fans every game he plays and if he is big enough to cope with that without it affecting his game too much. In these commercial times the sponsors may want an input as well.

In any other walk of life he could take a job where no-one has heard of him, be re-integrated and soon everyone would forget. In his chosen trade that's not the case but then, there's not many jobs where people pay to watch you work and have the opportunity to barrack you.

People like Jimmy Savile and Rolf Harris would hardly be able to go back on the stage now, either.

With the rewards comes the price. He can get a job shelf-stacking and no-one will ever know who he is.

Why is it not for this forum to discuss? Yes it passes the time ..that is all this forum ever does, that is the whole point of this forum. Why do you log on otherwise?

[Me-ate-Live, innit??]

................... and what if he was your son ?????

[Pluto]

I would urge anyone to read up on this particular case before making a quick judgement. This was not a "normal" rape case; in fact this ruling set a very scary prescedent which every bloke should take heed of. This is a good place to start: http://www.chedevans.com/key-and-undisputed-facts

Having read about this case in detail, I have a very hard time believing Evans was rightly convicted of this crime. An idiot? Certainly. Rapist? Not for me.

As far as I'm concerned he's served his time. He didn't receive a life sentence or any restrictions on his right to work, so he shouldn't be denied the right to continue in his chosen profession. I also believe an essential part of the criminal justice system is rehabilitaion and the chance of redemption - what message does this send if Evans is refused that by the will of some draconion mob and not an institute of the law? That isn't the actions of a civilised society.

[domprague]

No, it's not on the basis of probabilities. That's a civil court. In a criminal court it has to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt.

Barry, the unfortunate fact of life is that there are always both coppers and CPS out there that have a conviction-at-all-costs belief, and the actual guilt is purely on the basis of probabilities where there are no other suspects. That said, always bad apples in every barrel, and we're never gonna fix those issues.

What was interesting in this story is that the Blades fans BACK the players return, and the petition was started by some other party, and I believe there are no comparisons whatsoever between Evans and those such as Harris/Saville, especially as the latter relied on their personalities as much as their skill.