All info regarding the Stadium Redevelopment

[Baszab]

Quite frankly I am amazed that people are glibly talking about a return to the Premiership - it took us 30 years last time - this is purely greedy and presumptuous   = we have no god-given right to go back up again and certainly not with the crap squad we have now - it could take years to get the squad balanced and a winning mentality installed - I and I am sure many others don't give a monkeys about some fancy new stadium where we can host corporates while watching Milton Keynes and Fleetwood at home

[Fernhurst]

Putting aside concerns of  relegation and fears of Mr Khan having  hidden agenda, i must say i am impressed with the proposed redevelopment for the riverside having looked at the KSS site the stand looks great.
I have two hopes first i hope it goes ahead secondly i hope i am still alive to see it because it does seem to be dragging on.
COYW  092.gif 049:gif

I agree with your sentiment F32..... I'm sure it must pass through the head of the entire Old Sod division. I was at the opening of The Riverside in 72' and would love to make the opening of the new one.
For my penny's worth the starting of the development would signal our Chairmanship commitment to our wonderful old club that I really hope my smashing grandson can take his kids too and pay homage.

FTID

[westcliff white]

Personally i feel the stadium improvement is important, the costs do not impact FFP as I understand it, but the revenue form the stand helps with income and thus increase your spending power, maybe not by much but it helps.

I do not think we have a god given right to go back up, but I do think we are only 3 or 4 players away from a squad that is capable of pushing for top 6

[davew]

 090.gif I think this probably will describe SK's action after this season. I find it incredulous that our rich billionaire owner would even consider wasting his valuable savings on ground development when his beloved club (under his guardianship) has been allowed to risk sinking to the 1st division and then has to get rid of it's best players (whoever they may be) this Summer. That should leave us with a team of under 18's and if he really wants to save money why not buy a load of benches for Bishops Park (our new ground) with a maximum attendance of 500. Under the FFP rules we might be able to appoint 2 tea ladies. Very sad days ahead with another nail in our coffin this weekend!

[davew]

Match-day revenue is almost irrelevant now if each Premier match TV license is worth £10m per game - and the TV rights will only increase over time

An extra 5000 fans generating, say £200k per game = £4m pa plus food/hospitality = say £5m per season - small beer

I am sorry to be argumentative but let's stick with what we've got on the stadium and put ALL OUR RESOURCES - i.e.  Khan's money (subject to FPP) into getting back up again.

Agreed, but you are not being argumentative, just talking common sense, something this club is now sadly missing!!

[davew]

The way things are going it should make the redevelopment much easier, if we go down again and have gates of around 10000 there will be no need to use the riverside stand on match days as  in the original plan so it can be shut down and worked on continuously making the job a lot quicker.
Master plan by Mr Khan? fp.gif 079.gif 090.gif

We won't be getting gates of 10,000 if we go down, mind you the number of forum members might increase!

[MJG]

Anyway I'm in favour of building it... Anyone else?

[davew]

So basically do nothing is what some of you want to do.
what if we get promoted at end of 2015-16 which is possible.
you are then looking at two full seasons at least without the stand and stuck at the 25700 limit we have already and were filling up.so fall even further behind those clubs who have the 30K size grounds.
if matchday income is no longer a factor then why bother building anything, why not just have an empty ground?

you need to step back and look at the bigger picture. FFP will and does have an effect on how much we can spend/invest, you need the extra income to allow you to spend more.

I have to disagree slightly, firstly I think there is absolutely no chance of getting promotion in 2015/16 season unless you are talking about getting out of the 1st division and maybe that would be possible. The additional revenue, assuming you achieve maximum attendances and the we are in the PL does not really put us in a position to strengthen our squad to a level which can compete with the majority of other PL clubs. The horse has bolted and the FFP regulations will prevent us from moving onwards and upwards!

[Mince n Tatties]

Only if I Get to start another thread  about it...

[MJG]

So basically do nothing is what some of you want to do.
what if we get promoted at end of 2015-16 which is possible.
you are then looking at two full seasons at least without the stand and stuck at the 25700 limit we have already and were filling up.so fall even further behind those clubs who have the 30K size grounds.
if matchday income is no longer a factor then why bother building anything, why not just have an empty ground?

you need to step back and look at the bigger picture. FFP will and does have an effect on how much we can spend/invest, you need the extra income to allow you to spend more.

I have to disagree slightly, firstly I think there is absolutely no chance of getting promotion in 2015/16 season unless you are talking about getting out of the 1st division and maybe that would be possible. The additional revenue, assuming you achieve maximum attendances and the we are in the PL does not really put us in a position to strengthen our squad to a level which can compete with the majority of other PL clubs. The horse has bolted and the FFP regulations will prevent us from moving onwards and upwards!

So do nothing then?  That's it, we stay with the ground we have at this exact moment in time?

[cmg]

I'm more ignorant than usual when it comes to matters of money, but I suspect that Ground Development (fixed assets) and Transfer Fees and Wages (consumables) are budgeted and financed in different ways.
However if it had been possible to scrap the Riverside development and make all the money available for squad strengthening in the recent 'window', how much positive effect could we have made on our immediate playing prospects? Not much in my opinion. Even if we were prepared to pay £30m (say) for a £20m player there is no guarantee we could have persuaded him to come and even if we could, there is no guarantee that he would make an immediate impact.

Sensible ground development is, to my mind, an essential part of progress.

[dannyboi-ffc]

Anyway I'm in favour of building it... Anyone else?

Yep definitely in favour.

Forget revenue, forget premier league. There seems to be too much obsession with promotion for my liking. Providing we aren't relegated I am happy to build as long as I can see progress.

At the end of it all the only thing that should matter to any Fulham fan is staying at Craven Cottage
Some may consider being able to view games live abroad with the TV coverage as top priority but to me, a fulham without the cottage wouldn't be Fulham.  The ground can't sit still, it needs to be modernised in parts and secured as a long term home.
As long as the charm of he cottage/JH stand, open corners exposing the river and front of the ground remain unchanged I think the modernisation of the rest is vital.

I don't see how this affects our chances of promotion,  the money used for the riverside is not the same budget used for the transfer kitty. I just don't see how it's bad other than empty seats but there's plenty of those anyway.

Love the club not the divison

[ron]

I work for an architectural recruitment/headhunting firm (although not for much longer) and a colleague has been tasked with finding people to work on the (re)development of Craven Cottage. He was under the impression though that it was more than just the riverside stand.

More than just the riverside stand, or more than just a riverside stand?

How that can be interpreted might raise many an eyebrow....

[Whitesideup]

Anyway I'm in favour of building it... Anyone else?

Yes.

I am not sure it is necessarily that wise .. unless you believe. Stand up if you still believe.

But I appreciate and admire the ambition. And even if the nightmare of relegation becomes a reality, it is a setback, not the end of the world .. or come to that of FFC if we have a committed and supportive owner...and a committed supporter base.

[nose]

Quite frankly I am amazed that people are glibly talking about a return to the Premiership - it took us 30 years last time - this is purely greedy and presumptuous   = we have no god-given right to go back up again and certainly not with the crap squad we have now - it could take years to get the squad balanced and a winning mentality installed - I and I am sure many others don't give a monkeys about some fancy new stadium where we can host corporates while watching Milton Keynes and Fleetwood at home

not just that... i am amazed how unrealistic people are and ignorant of how finance works
this development, if we do not go up could spell the end of fulham.... it is that nonsensical.... it is not a statement of ambition it is burdening the club with a massive debt that can only be srviced by life in the premiership.... and that looks a distant dream

there is no obvious sign the mnanagement have the first idea of how to the run the club with a view to getting us into the prem..it seems like they are doing the opposite intentionally to me..... maybe you are right, maybe they want a stadium that would be used for an NFL franchise.

i have zero faith in our leaders at the moment, they give no cause for optimism, as far as the people on the MB who think the new stand is a good idea, they clearly have never been in a position of running there own buisnesses otherwise they would instictively know this is wrong and they would also be able to do a few simple sums and prove it to be a disaster... as I said before this is an error of the greek economy proportions.

[Baszab]

Furthermore..... no-one has proffered an answer to the hypothetical question of ...how would this redevelopment be financed ? - if it's by loans and Khan schlepps out big interest payments - that doesn't help FFC one iota

[MJG]

Furthermore..... no-one has proffered an answer to the hypothetical question of ...how would this redevelopment be financed ? - if it's by loans and Khan schlepps out big interest payments - that doesn't help FFC one iota

The finance is all in place for the stand,  at least that's was I was told at a meeting with the club. They have spent millions already and hundreds of meetings involving it.
Will it be a lump sum from Khan,  a loan or  massive od I have no idea. But it's separate from any money related to the running of the team.  It's long term planning and requirement to improve the ground so we can go forward and compete.
For people who moan about lack of ambition to then moan we are actually going to do something like this makes no sense.
Yes things on the pitch are not great,  but as long as we stay up and get five first teamers in during the summer I believe we can compete for a top six place.
Now you can buy that or not,  that's up to you,  but what else do you want?

[Scrumpy]

Sorry Nose, Baszab and others, I cannot believe how dense you are being. All the time, we hear people whine that Shahid should invest more money in the team. He's a very rich man and should spend, spend, spend! BUT HE IS NOT ALLOWED TO UNDER THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS OF FFP.

So how can he show his commitment to the Club? How can he spend his own hard earned dosh on the Club? How can he re-assure fans that he is committed? How can he invest massive amounts of money in order to generate an increase in revenues? How can he prove that he is committed to staying at Craven Cottage? What could he possibly do that is OUTSIDE THE RESTRICTIONS OF FFP? Jeez, the bloke can't seem to win with some fans.

You talk about lumbering the Club with a massive debt for the Stand,  but how do you know how it will be financed? Who's to say that he won't do what Mo did and transfer loans into equity in a few years time?

For me, building the new stand is a massive, massive step forward by Fulham and a huge commitment from Shahid. Bring it on!

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Quite frankly I am amazed that people are glibly talking about a return to the Premiership - it took us 30 years last time - this is purely greedy and presumptuous   = we have no god-given right to go back up again and certainly not with the crap squad we have now - it could take years to get the squad balanced and a winning mentality installed - I and I am sure many others don't give a monkeys about some fancy new stadium where we can host corporates while watching Milton Keynes and Fleetwood at home

not just that... i am amazed how unrealistic people are and ignorant of how finance works
this development, if we do not go up could spell the end of fulham.... it is that nonsensical.... it is not a statement of ambition it is burdening the club with a massive debt that can only be srviced by life in the premiership.... and that looks a distant dream

there is no obvious sign the mnanagement have the first idea of how to the run the club with a view to getting us into the prem..it seems like they are doing the opposite intentionally to me..... maybe you are right, maybe they want a stadium that would be used for an NFL franchise.

i have zero faith in our leaders at the moment, they give no cause for optimism, as far as the people on the MB who think the new stand is a good idea, they clearly have never been in a position of running there own buisnesses otherwise they would instictively know this is wrong and they would also be able to do a few simple sums and prove it to be a disaster... as I said before this is an error of the greek economy proportions.

Please explain for us financial ignoramuses how this development could spell the end of Fulham.

[Baszab]

Build redevelopment for say £30m (?)
Charges interest at a hefty rate
Uses surplus at the club to pay for interest (no high earners left, parachute payments coming in)
Team muddles along at current standard with 6 juniors playing
Buys one marquee signing (RMcC) per year to get the season ticket sales up
Buggers off and leaves the debt and no income
Or needs to raise income and suggests NFL, apartment redevelopment etc etc other conspiracy theories

Just a hypothesis - btw did the Apollo programmes really land on the moon ??