Financial FAIR play???????????????????

[ToodlesMcToot]

No bugger tells me what I can spend of my own cash. Why should it be any different for Khan. The FFP was set up with the plan of stopping clubs borrowing from 3rd parties to finance transfer spending. This was perfectly sound. It will prevent the Portsmouth situations. Why it should prevent a cash rich owner spending his own money I do not understand.
You can´t tell me that the owners of Man Utd & the others are not in debt to 3rd parties. I thought Man Utd has to pay millions to pay the Glaziers debts.
As was said earlier, it is one rule for the big clubs & another for the likes of ours.
Oh & thanks MAF for dumping us in the Championship by not investing & then taking all your money back. He damn well knew that the FFP would mean any future owner was not able to invest in a top squad. I feel somewhat sorry for Khan having to get us back up by whilst adhering to the FFP rules.

I feel sorry for him too. I don't subscribe to all the conspiracy theories BUT I wish someone at the Club would do a short piece on FFP and how the Club views it. Will they comply strictly to it? Are they within target on annual wages? What is their strategy going forward? Will Shahid continue to invest in the ground for the foreseeable future? We just need some clear communication and then I think a lot of people would be less critical as a result.

I have asked the club about publishing something on FFP and they will be asking the FL if they have anything that they can publish which explains it's current format.

Did you get the impression from their response that, when/if they decide to publish something that they might give a little personal insight (as FFP relates to Fulham)?

I know that they aren't going to tell us all the detail of their business and wouldn't expect that. However, it might go a long way toward building realistic expectation from the supporters if the club were to describe, in general, what any reasonable club that has been relegated from the PL would have to adjust with its roster of players and general operations to begin the process of complying while also trying to rebuild toward promotion. I would think that general thoughts on these topics would be fairly benign since so many clubs go through it and will go through it but, supporters might not understand all of the impacts.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

There wouldn't be any complaints against some form of FFP if our Chairman wasn't a billionaire.

Of course the system doesn't work. There is way too much money in the PL and Champions League and of that money little of it filters down and far too slowly. Most goes on players wages. Those clubs with large grounds and a large following consequently get even more money.

It would require something radical like requiring all clubs to be non-profit organisations so it is not seen as a business that might make a profit, paying all clubs in the PL the same amount, reducing the PL prize money for those who win a Champions League place, etc. which is unlikely to happen unless the F.A. take a tougher stand.

[Oakeshott]

"It would require something radical like requiring all clubs to be non-profit organisations so it is not seen as a business that might make a profit, paying all clubs in the PL the same amount, reducing the PL prize money for those who win a Champions League place, etc. which is unlikely to happen unless the F.A. take a tougher stand."

Why would anyone in their right mind want to do any of that?

The Premiership is a global success and our best teams can compete with any in Europe. They (the best teams) earn the money they get and good luck to them. All we need is for rules which effectively prevent any other club from joining them to be removed. The FFP is a misguided piece of socialistic nonsense which will all but ensure we don't see any other clubs doing a Fulham or Wigan and going from obscurity to sustained Premiership stays, while ensuring that those clubs that are promoted from the Championship are destined to struggle around the bottom of the Premiership because the penalty for investing heavily and still being relegated is too heavy.

[MJG]

No bugger tells me what I can spend of my own cash. Why should it be any different for Khan. The FFP was set up with the plan of stopping clubs borrowing from 3rd parties to finance transfer spending. This was perfectly sound. It will prevent the Portsmouth situations. Why it should prevent a cash rich owner spending his own money I do not understand.
You can´t tell me that the owners of Man Utd & the others are not in debt to 3rd parties. I thought Man Utd has to pay millions to pay the Glaziers debts.
As was said earlier, it is one rule for the big clubs & another for the likes of ours.
Oh & thanks MAF for dumping us in the Championship by not investing & then taking all your money back. He damn well knew that the FFP would mean any future owner was not able to invest in a top squad. I feel somewhat sorry for Khan having to get us back up by whilst adhering to the FFP rules.

I feel sorry for him too. I don't subscribe to all the conspiracy theories BUT I wish someone at the Club would do a short piece on FFP and how the Club views it. Will they comply strictly to it? Are they within target on annual wages? What is their strategy going forward? Will Shahid continue to invest in the ground for the foreseeable future? We just need some clear communication and then I think a lot of people would be less critical as a result.

I have asked the club about publishing something on FFP and they will be asking the FL if they have anything that they can publish which explains it's current format.

Did you get the impression from their response that, when/if they decide to publish something that they might give a little personal insight (as FFP relates to Fulham)?

I know that they aren't going to tell us all the detail of their business and wouldn't expect that. However, it might go a long way toward building realistic expectation from the supporters if the club were to describe, in general, what any reasonable club that has been relegated from the PL would have to adjust with its roster of players and general operations to begin the process of complying while also trying to rebuild toward promotion. I would think that general thoughts on these topics would be fairly benign since so many clubs go through it and will go through it but, supporters might not understand all of the impacts.

I dont see the club giving any indication figure wise in anything they publish relating to the rules of it. But I do get the impression we are within the targets so should have no issues going forward.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

"It would require something radical like requiring all clubs to be non-profit organisations so it is not seen as a business that might make a profit, paying all clubs in the PL the same amount, reducing the PL prize money for those who win a Champions League place, etc. which is unlikely to happen unless the F.A. take a tougher stand."

Why would anyone in their right mind want to do any of that?

The Premiership is a global success and our best teams can compete with any in Europe. They (the best teams) earn the money they get and good luck to them. All we need is for rules which effectively prevent any other club from joining them to be removed. The FFP is a misguided piece of socialistic nonsense which will all but ensure we don't see any other clubs doing a Fulham or Wigan and going from obscurity to sustained Premiership stays, while ensuring that those clubs that are promoted from the Championship are destined to struggle around the bottom of the Premiership because the penalty for investing heavily and still being relegated is too heavy.

You want the PL to be a global success but you want rules that don't prevent other clubs joining them?

And major reason that the PL is a global success is that it is competitive unlike many other leagues.
How long will that continue if the rich clubs dominate and even grow apart further?

The prize money in the PL is scaled from the top to the bottom so the rich clubs become richer.  The rich clubs get into the Champions League so the rich clubs become even richer. Rich clubs pay higher wages. The clubs that pay higher wages get the best players. The clubs with the best players are more successful. The less rich clubs like Southampton and Swansea have to sell their best players to the rich clubs or lose them for nothing and then can only get younger, less experienced or talented replacements so don't improve.

Enough of your brain dead cliches like 'socialistic nonsense'. You really shouldn't use words and concepts that you don't understand.

What is your solution? I presume that you a great believer in 'the market'. Surely the market should decide and be free without rules restricting competition. Should we just rely on the market to throw up more billionaires to take over clubs?

Tell us how you are going to make the system fair?

[Logicalman]

Apprentice, a lot of what you say is correct, though I would also add that it's not ONLY the rich clubs get richer. As we're seeing this year, perhaps some of the 2nd tier teams , such as Soton, Spuds and even the Cheats are getting closer to their day in the sun, and if, just if, they can maintain a top 7 place, they might be in with a chance to join the top tier more permanently.

As the same way the Prem evolved, I can honestly see a European Elite League, consisting of perhaps the top teams from the 5 or 6 elite european leagues, but run in the same way as a closed league is, e.g. no automatic relegation/promotion. If that does happen, yes, they of course would sell out their games each week, but that would be no different from the way it is today, but the existing Prem monies would also be further distributed to those not in that elite league and so might actually help the national game.

Free market forces, as we have seen, are not as free as they might want to appear, the top companies/clubs WILL maintain their top status against all competition if rules are not imposed, but it is also those same rules that restrict further opportunity, unless we want to go the US model and artificially great a level playing field, something I feel would remove the final identity from the beautiful game.

[ToodlesMcToot]

No bugger tells me what I can spend of my own cash. Why should it be any different for Khan. The FFP was set up with the plan of stopping clubs borrowing from 3rd parties to finance transfer spending. This was perfectly sound. It will prevent the Portsmouth situations. Why it should prevent a cash rich owner spending his own money I do not understand.
You can´t tell me that the owners of Man Utd & the others are not in debt to 3rd parties. I thought Man Utd has to pay millions to pay the Glaziers debts.
As was said earlier, it is one rule for the big clubs & another for the likes of ours.
Oh & thanks MAF for dumping us in the Championship by not investing & then taking all your money back. He damn well knew that the FFP would mean any future owner was not able to invest in a top squad. I feel somewhat sorry for Khan having to get us back up by whilst adhering to the FFP rules.

I feel sorry for him too. I don't subscribe to all the conspiracy theories BUT I wish someone at the Club would do a short piece on FFP and how the Club views it. Will they comply strictly to it? Are they within target on annual wages? What is their strategy going forward? Will Shahid continue to invest in the ground for the foreseeable future? We just need some clear communication and then I think a lot of people would be less critical as a result.

I have asked the club about publishing something on FFP and they will be asking the FL if they have anything that they can publish which explains it's current format.

Did you get the impression from their response that, when/if they decide to publish something that they might give a little personal insight (as FFP relates to Fulham)?

I know that they aren't going to tell us all the detail of their business and wouldn't expect that. However, it might go a long way toward building realistic expectation from the supporters if the club were to describe, in general, what any reasonable club that has been relegated from the PL would have to adjust with its roster of players and general operations to begin the process of complying while also trying to rebuild toward promotion. I would think that general thoughts on these topics would be fairly benign since so many clubs go through it and will go through it but, supporters might not understand all of the impacts.

I dont see the club giving any indication figure wise in anything they publish relating to the rules of it. But I do get the impression we are within the targets so should have no issues going forward.

Like I said, I don't expect specifics (monetary figures, etc). I was asking if you felt like they might put a personal spin on whatever information they decide to share. Or will they just pass along whichever document they feel explains the rules the best.

I've always advocated the club being more open in their communication with the supporters, either thru game day programs or the website or even their video interviews. I feel like they can share a bit of the reasoning for their decision-making in certain areas without divulging secrets.

My best example again would be taking the FFP rules and putting them into the context of a relegated club - why certain decisions must be taken to right the club for moving forward under the FL FFP regulations, how the relegation can impact backroom staff and playing staff beyond the relegation, why it might be better to build a roster from within rather than spend outside the club to rebuild, etc. There's really no need to get into the finances of the club nor anything too private. Some of this might be obvious to some and not to others but, communicated in the context of the passing of events that are similar to our club would be a good education for the supporters. Better informed supporters make smarter, less reactionary supporters.

[MJG]

No bugger tells me what I can spend of my own cash. Why should it be any different for Khan. The FFP was set up with the plan of stopping clubs borrowing from 3rd parties to finance transfer spending. This was perfectly sound. It will prevent the Portsmouth situations. Why it should prevent a cash rich owner spending his own money I do not understand.
You can´t tell me that the owners of Man Utd & the others are not in debt to 3rd parties. I thought Man Utd has to pay millions to pay the Glaziers debts.
As was said earlier, it is one rule for the big clubs & another for the likes of ours.
Oh & thanks MAF for dumping us in the Championship by not investing & then taking all your money back. He damn well knew that the FFP would mean any future owner was not able to invest in a top squad. I feel somewhat sorry for Khan having to get us back up by whilst adhering to the FFP rules.

I feel sorry for him too. I don't subscribe to all the conspiracy theories BUT I wish someone at the Club would do a short piece on FFP and how the Club views it. Will they comply strictly to it? Are they within target on annual wages? What is their strategy going forward? Will Shahid continue to invest in the ground for the foreseeable future? We just need some clear communication and then I think a lot of people would be less critical as a result.

I have asked the club about publishing something on FFP and they will be asking the FL if they have anything that they can publish which explains it's current format.

Did you get the impression from their response that, when/if they decide to publish something that they might give a little personal insight (as FFP relates to Fulham)?

I know that they aren't going to tell us all the detail of their business and wouldn't expect that. However, it might go a long way toward building realistic expectation from the supporters if the club were to describe, in general, what any reasonable club that has been relegated from the PL would have to adjust with its roster of players and general operations to begin the process of complying while also trying to rebuild toward promotion. I would think that general thoughts on these topics would be fairly benign since so many clubs go through it and will go through it but, supporters might not understand all of the impacts.

I dont see the club giving any indication figure wise in anything they publish relating to the rules of it. But I do get the impression we are within the targets so should have no issues going forward.

Like I said, I don't expect specifics (monetary figures, etc). I was asking if you felt like they might put a personal spin on whatever information they decide to share. Or will they just pass along whichever document they feel explains the rules the best.

I've always advocated the club being more open in their communication with the supporters, either thru game day programs or the website or even their video interviews. I feel like they can share a bit of the reasoning for their decision-making in certain areas without divulging secrets.

My best example again would be taking the FFP rules and putting them into the context of a relegated club - why certain decisions must be taken to right the club for moving forward under the FL FFP regulations, how the relegation can impact backroom staff and playing staff beyond the relegation, why it might be better to build a roster from within rather than spend outside the club to rebuild, etc. There's really no need to get into the finances of the club nor anything too private. Some of this might be obvious to some and not to others but, communicated in the context of the passing of events that are similar to our club would be a good education for the supporters. Better informed supporters make smarter, less reactionary supporters.

Simple answer is I suspect whatever they publish will just be the rules with no spin attached.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Apprentice, a lot of what you say is correct, though I would also add that it's not ONLY the rich clubs get richer. As we're seeing this year, perhaps some of the 2nd tier teams , such as Soton, Spuds and even the Cheats are getting closer to their day in the sun, and if, just if, they can maintain a top 7 place, they might be in with a chance to join the top tier more permanently.

As the same way the Prem evolved, I can honestly see a European Elite League, consisting of perhaps the top teams from the 5 or 6 elite european leagues, but run in the same way as a closed league is, e.g. no automatic relegation/promotion. If that does happen, yes, they of course would sell out their games each week, but that would be no different from the way it is today, but the existing Prem monies would also be further distributed to those not in that elite league and so might actually help the national game.

Free market forces, as we have seen, are not as free as they might want to appear, the top companies/clubs WILL maintain their top status against all competition if rules are not imposed, but it is also those same rules that restrict further opportunity, unless we want to go the US model and artificially great a level playing field, something I feel would remove the final identity from the beautiful game.

I agree that all get richer but the relative positions will tend to stay the same particularly under FFP. The rich clubs have have the largest grounds that they fill and country and world wide marketing as with Man. Utd., Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool. Clubs like Tottenham may be able to break into that group because they also have a large following but clubs like Southampton are going to struggle.

FFP also has the effect of blocking bad owners making huge mistakes, such as at Portsmouth, that can take their club down several levels leaving space for another club to take their place.

Having a European Super League would make the PL more competitive and is probably the most likely scenario. It would take most of the clubs supported and partially financed by fans that rarely if ever go to their club's home games out of the equation.

There has got to be a better way of encouraging further opportunity than relying on very rich people to take over a club as a rich man's bauble. It also ought to be possible to invent rules that level in the opportunity without introducing artificial rules like the NFL draft.

As I said, distributing the TV money more evenly would be something simple and not too controversial, for example but brighter minds can surely come up with something better.

[JDH101]

If Kahn did want to spend heavily in the summer, say, 25 million, why couldn't he open up a company and pay Fulham 25 million as some sort of stadium / corporate sponsorship? Then the club gets 25 million which they can spend on players that doesn't put us in the red.

Surely there are work arounds?