My team for wigan, A praise for some and a little moan too

[dannyboi-ffc]

First of all I have changed my mind slightly and put the toys back in the pram, yesterday is a point I would've taken before kick off so its better than losing and we are back above rotherham. They are away to middlesbrough next so chances are they will lose and no matter what happens vs wigan being above rotherham next wednesday is a massive psychological advantage.

I didnt think hutchinson was playing too bad and he is unlucky to be suspended but there's no room for sentiment in football. Keep Mr Burn in now please kit! What a performance, superb and I genuinely see signs of a future fulham captain in him. Well done son!

Praise now for Rigg, it is almost impossible to find very good players in an emergency loan market and although people question guthrie and the keeper, Turner and Husband are outstanding! I am so impressed with Husband that I'd go as far as to say he is better than any LB since Rufus and thats a lot of LB's. I see a bright future if we can permanently sign both in the summer. Bring in a new Rb and persevere with the potential in Betti and we have the makings of a very good base.

That brings me to my next point, Hoogland has to be released, not the worst player in the world but his legs are finished. Yesterday he was caught out every time through pace or lack of it I should say.

Smith and Ross, who said long ball is boring? That goal was one of ours goals of the season. The understanding and awareness between them is better than any partnership for a long time. Smith isnt the long term answer but surely he has proved he is worth keeping as an option?

Tunnicliffe has improved since the millwall shambles. He is what he is but he's slowly growing on me. Problem is you cant afford more than one of him in the 11. That leads me onto Mr Kavanagh. Now its nothing against his attitude or effort, he clearly tries his best but thats the worrying part for me. He tries and is still hopeless. He hasnt got pace, he cant stop crosses, he cant cross himself, he is tiny and weak, he goes missing because he hides away from the right runs to make. Maybe its just me but it got to the point yesterday where the other players avoided passing to him. I would go as far as saying he is one of the least talented players I have ever seen and I cant believe roberts isnt ready but he is.

Thats enough for today

                     Betti

Richards  Turner Burn  Husband

Tunnicliffe   Parker     Fofana

                      Ruiz

         Mccormack  Smith  

Coyw!!!!!!

[jimmyc19]

A little harsh on kavanagh maybe, I wasn't at the game last night so can't comment on that but when he's played this season I think he's done alright considering he's new to it all.

[FPT]

I liked how we maintained a 442 yesterday, Tunnicliffe and Kavanagh (although narrow) were clearly lining as wider players with Parker and Danny Guthrie in the middle. I felt the system gave us a smoother transition into pressure. You commented on the loan players, and I really like Danny Guthrie. I like how Guthrie would collect the ball and immediately see who was out wide, even if nobody was there, small signs of serious positivity were clear and what we've been missing, I'm not surprised that he came in and we looked better on the ball against Brentford and dominated possession last night.

Quick point on Sean Kavanagh, I like him, but I do agree that its been a while since we've seen him spark. Kav was commonly seen as the best crosser of the ball at the club, maybe that title goes to Jordan Evans now but Kavanagh does have ability. I think Sean makes us look more composed, he's reliable with the ball at his feet; but I do somewhat agree that he could do with a spell away.

Last night we benefited from the four in midfield and Dan Burn returning to the eleven, we were defensively very comfortable, even though we shouldn't have been if you take everything into account. I don't expect to see it, but I wouldn't be against a 352 for Fulham. I think the 3 centre backs would cover for the full backs to get further forward; then we also have room to fit in Ruiz to sit in behind McCormack and Smith, which also covers for Smith winning headers - Ross can gamble running long and if it drops into the midfield, Ruiz is there to pick it up.

[Joseffc]

Have to say I totally agree with regards to Kavanagh, although I do appreciate that it is new to him and that he is trying. However, from seeing him play on numerous occasions, the only positive aspect to his game is that he clearly has a cultured left foot.

As dannyboi has pointed out he clearly lacks attributes in vital aspects of the game to be cut out for this level. He is absolutely tiny in comparison to other players and clearly lacks strength both on and off the ball and therefore it seems from the stands that his ball retention is very poor. My biggest issue however is his overall role in the team, he is not a defensive midfielder who will break up play, get stuck in, dictate tempo or spray the ball about the park. He is not a winger, who will beat a man, whip balls into the box, cause havoc to opposing defenders or score goals and will not provide solid cover for a full back. Finally, he is also not a creative player who will pick open opposition defenses and chip in with goals & assists.

So... what exactly is it that he does for the team?  What does he contribute to justify such regular selection? What has he done or achieved that eclipses the likes of other young players such as Roberts or Dembele?

The curious case of Sean Kavanagh!

[dannyboi-ffc]

Have to say I totally agree with regards to Kavanagh, although I do appreciate that it is new to him and that he is trying. However, from seeing him play on numerous occasions, the only positive aspect to his game is that he clearly has a cultured left foot.

As dannyboi has pointed out he clearly lacks attributes in vital aspects of the game to be cut out for this level. He is absolutely tiny in comparison to other players and clearly lacks strength both on and off the ball and therefore it seems from the stands that his ball retention is very poor. My biggest issue however is his overall role in the team, he is not a defensive midfielder who will break up play, get stuck in, dictate tempo or spray the ball about the park. He is not a winger, who will beat a man, whip balls into the box, cause havoc to opposing defenders or score goals and will not provide solid cover for a full back. Finally, he is also not a creative player who will pick open opposition defenses and chip in with goals & assists.

So... what exactly is it that he does for the team?  What does he contribute to justify such regular selection? What has he done or achieved that eclipses the likes of other young players such as Roberts or Dembele?

The curious case of Sean Kavanagh!

You my friend have hit the nail on the head! You put what I was trying to say perfectly, what exactly does he do? Maybe its kits fault for giving him such a vague role in the side but his contribution definitely raises eyebrows for how little the other kids have featured. Williams out on loan because he isnt ready yet lol.

The curious case of Sean Kavanagh indeed

[colinwhite]

Thanks for that Danny . I am not a great fan of Burn but Im glad he did well . Hutchinson and Bodurov having have been very poor of late ,so a change in centre back is positive .
I don't get Kavanagh either. Good left foot but far too light weight . He is full back but gets totally outmuscled at this level , in that position . I  don't think he's up to it at the moment, and the only reason he is getting a game is because he is left footed .

[millsy]

I've said elsewhere that, for me, Dan was MoM, with the 3 loanees not far behind.

Agree with DannyBoi that Hoogs is a spent force and gets caught out too often. Was crying out for Kav to be taken off "to avoid futprther punishment". He looked out of his depth and generally offered nothing to the team.

When Guthrie tired, Ruiz was the correct sub but Kaca is really no better than Kav, with many of the same shortcomings. Lost count of how often I saw both these lads running alongside but not actually getting in a serious challenge. I'm sorry but too frequently they look like boys playing against men. If Kaca was quicker, or could beat his man, or could cross a ball, then maybe but until then...

[MJG]

I'll tell what Kavanagh does,  he plays for Symons and follows his instructions. Might not sound a lot but managers like a player who keep it simple and does his job. He covered for Husband when he went forward and basically held his position. This in a way allowed Tunniclffe to have a bit more freedom to go inside,  so only only wing was disrupted.
Now I'm not saying that's right or wrong, just the way I see it with regards Kavanagh.

[dannyboi-ffc]

I'll tell what Kavanagh does,  he plays for Symons and follows his instructions. Might not sound a lot but managers like a player who keep it simple and does his job. He covered for Husband when he went forward and basically held his position. This in a way allowed Tunniclffe to have a bit more freedom to go inside,  so only only wing was disrupted.
Now I'm not saying that's right or wrong, just the way I see it with regards Kavanagh.

To be fair I said that to someone at the game. He is 'supposed' to be cover for Husband who is eager and and good at gettkng forward. However, charlton scored and missed a sitter both from the left in the first half. Almost identical chances and both unmarked. I never saw kavanagh make one tackle or stop any crosses, he is too soft when closing down.

If cover is the reason I would rather play stafy like we did with amorebieta or even play stafy lb and husband left wing. Husband does need that cover because I noticed he doesnt sprint back when we lose possession but there must be other ways around it. Kavanagh is so ineffective that its like 10 men. Its ok against derby at home on a small pitch when you're 2-0 up but starting him from the off takes away a lot going forward. He just lives in shadows

[Domino 1879]

Isn't interesting that our best players over the last few games have been the loanees.
Perhaps they are playing for their futures whereas our squad players are either less motivated or simply not good enough.

[Fulham1959]

Well, it's good to read an intelligent, reasoned, level-headed discussion.

Thanks, all.

[Joseffc]

I'll tell what Kavanagh does,  he plays for Symons and follows his instructions. Might not sound a lot but managers like a player who keep it simple and does his job. He covered for Husband when he went forward and basically held his position. This in a way allowed Tunniclffe to have a bit more freedom to go inside,  so only only wing was disrupted.
Now I'm not saying that's right or wrong, just the way I see it with regards Kavanagh.

If playing for the manager and following instructions are what you can offer and what determines whether you start in the team it is a sad state of affairs. Understand you are simply coming from the other side of the coin, but I would expect a player who is starting regularly(ish) for a championship side to offer more both technically and physically than just following the managers instructions. The ability and confidence to contribute more should be there considering his rise from the reserves, praise he has had and the new contract he has just been given, the problem is I don't think he has the ability to do so.

Maybe a loan somewhere where he can play week in week out with less pressure may help, but at present I am still at a loss to see what he can do to help or improve the team in matches.

[dannyboi-ffc]

Maybe I'd go for this instead to provide some width. I remember hoogland and roberts linking up well in the very first game at Ipswich but that was a very long time ago and a different hoogland.

                            Betti

Rich/Hoog   Turner  Burn   Stafy

Roberts      Guthrie Parker   Husband

                 Smith        Mccormack

I noticed when ruiz came on he demanded it to feet but smith wanted it to his head. Very much chalk and cheese but I think the smith direct route is the answer to grind out another win. I like Ruiz and sang for him to come on yesterday but I find it very hard to fit him in, mccormack in, a bit of steel in the midfield and width. Its impossible.

Happy with that team woolly?