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Matt Smith and Alexander Kacaniklic - POWER & PACE!!

Started by Nick Bateman, August 12, 2015, 04:16:48 PM

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MJG

Alistair, Ally Mac, CEO, Mackintosh,  whatever you want to use I use is no matter and just because I use his first name does not mean he's a friend so don't be silly.. Oh wait that's you all over.
If you carry on reading that clause it can still only be done in a window.
Also requires both clubs and players agreements.

For the record I don't think he should have gone on loan but at least we got an extension in place as well at same time.

Berbatov and Mitroglou are two subjects that have been spoken about many times. Some on here would have kept Berbatov others thought in first half of the season he was a waste of space.
Mitroglou has said he didn't want to play in the league,  rightly or wrongly he has also gone. My understanding is the agreed buy out fee is more than the £4m you mention.

Anyway I'm done on this thread before I get in trouble. We both get under each others skin,  for me it's your blatant bending of the facts or just lying to suit your argument. And then of course when caught out you just ignore the answer.

Jonaldiniho 88

Quote from: Nick Bateman on August 12, 2015, 08:47:22 PM
Quote from: Jonaldiniho 88 on August 12, 2015, 08:36:25 PM
Oh nick. I'm a big smith fan, kaka can be very good but is very inconsistent. We do tend to use him inconsistently so can you blame him? I don't know. Your OP makes good reading and some points but why must you mention Ali Mac in every post? There is no need or context in this and many other posts you post. Also singling MJG out is poor form IMO. I have had debates with MJG about smith and disagree with him usually regarding smith but that's what happens when you discuss football. MJG may pick through your posts more than others but you do tend to state everything as fact and quite often you are proven to not be factually correct. I'm not a stat man so in my posts I err on the side of caution and dilute my opinion and use of "facts" as there are many people on here who are very good at finding and using stats (almost always IMO in a positive not negative way. Either to help someone out when asked or defend their point). You seem to always need to make reasonable views just that little bit more concentrated (on my diluted analogy) and this may be why you can be treated differently than others. Please write what you want but I would much prefer reading your already interesting posts if you didn't blame Ali Mac (or mention him) or pick a challenge with another poster before he has responded.

Some good points Jonakliniho, allow me to explain why I mentioned MJG's friend Alistair. 

The last time I was inspired by some players' performances was when Mitroglou came off the bench against C.Palace and I saw some real optimism and wrote about it on this forum.  Barely a week had gone when "Alistair" decided to loan him to Benfica?

I wasn't the only one extolling "The Trog's" praise but the man who has made so many mistakes at this club continued by allowing this international forward to go on loan.  We are not Chelsea - we should not be doing LOANS - period!!

Now again one sees a chink of light in the squad with barely any significant investment from Khan and the thought crossed my mind while prosing my epistle, "Will Mackintosh loan out either of these two quality players?"  I had to voice it before he did so, so it's on record if the man does it again.  And one hopes MJG or someone he communicates with tells him he can stop selling/loaning our BEST players because fans will not stand for it.

I see the link you've made but I don't see the link personally. Everything at this club isn't Ali Macs decision and want away players probably deserve more blame than the CEO. I also understand that you want to get your opinion in first to have it on record and that's something most of us have in common. Will you admit you were wrong if wrong and praise Ali Mac for keeping them? For what it's worth I THINK that Ali Mac has far less control than you think and don't feel he is to blame for much of what you blame him for. Without trying to be too cheeky what I did there was highlight a word that changes my comment from an adamant statement and a vague opinion. I doubt I will get the abuse you do on this board for my post but if I said Ali Mac is definitely not ....... Then I would be open to more abuse.

Nick Bateman

#42
Quote from: Jonaldiniho 88 on August 12, 2015, 09:02:32 PM

I see the link you've made but I don't see the link personally. Everything at this club isn't Ali Macs decision and want away players probably deserve more blame than the CEO. I also understand that you want to get your opinion in first to have it on record and that's something most of us have in common. Will you admit you were wrong if wrong and praise Ali Mac for keeping them? For what it's worth I THINK that Ali Mac has far less control than you think and don't feel he is to blame for much of what you blame him for. Without trying to be too cheeky what I did there was highlight a word that changes my comment from an adamant statement and a vague opinion. I doubt I will get the abuse you do on this board for my post but if I said Ali Mac is definitely not ....... Then I would be open to more abuse.

Jonaldiniho, I am a 'lay person' like many on here voicing their concerns.  What I did see was Mackintosh presiding over many signings and departures so one has to feel he was making those calls.  The sacking of René Muelensteen, I have a theory was NOT Mackintosh's idea, but something they had as a contingency as Magath was ready to step in immediately.  I would dearly like to cease mentioning him negatively and as you say, praise him for some deal which helps Fulham and yes, I would admit if I was clearly found wrong (which MJG failed to show).

Only last week he allowed Mitroglou to go out on loan.  One can make a bundle of excuses how Fulham could not have kept him, all of which are incorrect as we have his contract, and how he didn't wish to play in the Championship, again, if so, something a player can be swayed around, so on that basis why allow such a good player to leave us for a paltry £1.5million in wages??

Mackintosh is still in charge of the finances so he must carry the blame, even if Khan is telling him to lighten the purse load.  Frankly, I don't see Khan as saying that.

As for Berbatov, he scored tons of goals the previous year, then dried up in the following half season.  Reason is obvious, Jol got rid of Zamora who was our hold-up player making Berbie play in that difficult role with Bryan Ruiz as "the answer to Fulham's goalscoring worries" as Jol stated.  Ruiz as we know took a long time to settle which left Berbie all on his own.  He went to Monaco and immediately showed what a class player he was.
Nick Bateman "knows his footie"


Jonaldiniho 88

Once again nick you are stating facts and creating a link that I can't see. Who is to be credited with smiths signing? Who is credited with Ohara, pringle, and cairney? If Ali Mac is to blame then he has to be credited for this business. If you honestly think Mitro was keen on staying and Ali Mac had everything to do with his leaving for 1.5m in wages and a possible sell on clause of 4m then I think that is naive. Why didn't Mitro leave earlier or stay with the Greek club he had played with before? Why didn't he go to sporting Lisbon? Why wasn't he spanned up first week of the window! Neither of us know the answers. We can assume. I would assume he wasn't wanted for what we wanted to sell for. I would assume the Greek club couldn't afford him. I would assume he would have gone to Lisbon but we got a better offer from benfica. All assumption but if true then Ali Mac did a very good job. Rigg is in charge of footballing matters so in letting Mitro go it's Riggs fault. Why didn't kit come out in the press and say we are desperate to keep him. Kits fault. The only truth is that this mess has been fulhamfc's fault. The rest is assumption.

HatterDon


ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
"As long as there is light, I will sing." -- Juana, la Cubana

www.facebook/dphvocalease
www.facebook/sellersandhymel

HatterDon

Quote from: Jonaldiniho 88 on August 12, 2015, 10:44:55 PM
Quote from: HatterDon on August 12, 2015, 10:41:41 PM

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Isn't it morning where you are? Sorry for boring you. Think that is quite rude. You could have just have nodded off and not been an arse (spelt the correct way).

That was directed to the author of this joke. Sorry that you got in the way.
"As long as there is light, I will sing." -- Juana, la Cubana

www.facebook/dphvocalease
www.facebook/sellersandhymel


Jonaldiniho 88

Quote from: HatterDon on August 12, 2015, 10:53:55 PM
Quote from: Jonaldiniho 88 on August 12, 2015, 10:44:55 PM
Quote from: HatterDon on August 12, 2015, 10:41:41 PM

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Isn't it morning where you are? Sorry for boring you. Think that is quite rude. You could have just have nodded off and not been an arse (spelt the correct way).

That was directed to the author of this joke. Sorry that you got in the way.


I apologise. I also spelt arse ass in a post within the hour so I look more stupid than normal. Post will be deleted.

F.luke

I can't agree with the supporters that still think Kaca should start, I hope he does improve and develope but for me at the moment he's at best on the bench with a lot to prove. It's frustrating as I believe he has great potential but doesn't assert himself and for a young player doesn't seem hungry enough for me

Nick Bateman

Quote from: HatterDon on August 12, 2015, 10:53:55 PM
Quote from: Jonaldiniho 88 on August 12, 2015, 10:44:55 PM
Quote from: HatterDon on August 12, 2015, 10:41:41 PM

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Isn't it morning where you are? Sorry for boring you. Think that is quite rude. You could have just have nodded off and not been an arse (spelt the correct way).

That was directed to the author of this joke. Sorry that you got in the way.


That was directed to the author of this 'joke'?  So you wrote it to yourself??
Nick Bateman "knows his footie"


Jonaldiniho 88

Quote from: F.luke on August 12, 2015, 10:57:16 PM
I can't agree with the supporters that still think Kaca should start, I hope he does improve and develope but for me at the moment he's at best on the bench with a lot to prove. It's frustrating as I believe he has great potential but doesn't assert himself and for a young player doesn't seem hungry enough for me

I kinda agree but we haven't given him 5+ starts in a row since we have signed him have we? I may be wrong. Ross has looked pretty poor so far this season and his start yesterday tells me he isn't all that fit. Kaka was great preseason by all accounts and deserves a chance. I doubt he will get it. You wouldn't expect a cb to come in and be rock solid without continuity but that seems to be expected of other positions. I don't think he fits into our team (plan) unless pringle is dropped. A tough ask as he was highly rated. Pringle will get more consecutive games this season without doing as much because he is new and rated. For the record I don't think kaka is the finished article but we won't find out unless he plays consistently. 

Jonaldiniho 88

Quote from: Nick Bateman on August 12, 2015, 10:58:45 PM
Quote from: HatterDon on August 12, 2015, 10:53:55 PM
Quote from: Jonaldiniho 88 on August 12, 2015, 10:44:55 PM
Quote from: HatterDon on August 12, 2015, 10:41:41 PM

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Isn't it morning where you are? Sorry for boring you. Think that is quite rude. You could have just have nodded off and not been an arse (spelt the correct way).

That was directed to the author of this joke. Sorry that you got in the way.


That was directed to the author of this 'joke'?  So you wrote it to yourself??

You have clearly chosen to answer other posts rather than mine. That doesn't put your credibility in good stead. You may well respond well to personal insult but it doesn't look like you can respond to measured critic. Honestly it's very poor. People you have critiqued show more class. Please prove me wrong.

Luffy86

Smithy looks like a proper decent bloke too and he's rather skilful for a giant!! I was watching the training before the game, the little drill between Burn, Smithy, Emo and Dembele, Smithys effort is second to none, he knows being a professional player and should give your all no matter your circumstances or views!! I can honestly see smithy becoming a Fulham icon!


Scrumpy

Smith = Legend

Kaca = Lightweight

Sorry Alex  :016:
English by birth, Fulham by the grace of God.

Skatzoffc

Quote from: Bracken White on August 12, 2015, 08:21:41 PM
Kacaniklic is curate's eggish for me - but understand the points. Matt Smith, however, is more than a target man (though he is) he is a goal poacher - often gets a shot in - takes the tap-ins and is capable of a rasping drive. Has that right place/right time knack that is priceless. I believe he is under-valued by the majority and is a nailed in started for me.
Heresy, perhaps, but both Hutchinson & Burn are playing much better and both Richards & Voser are looking sound. Please no Kavanagh replacing the latter when he gets fit.
Of course further strengthening would be worthwhile, however.
So all in all, we are far & away a better unit than the shambles we started with last season - and dare I say it - a far better Manager, too.

Good points Bracken
Siblings, let us not be down on it.
One total catastrophe like this...is just the beginning !

N_O_W_S

I would like to see more Kaca but not at the expense of Pringle, who don't forget made our goal with a cracking effort on Saturday against Cardiff.

Still not entirely sure that Kaca is doing enough with his crossing opportunities but then I haven't been able to judge for myself for a whole game at the cottage recently.

On Matt Smith. He's a great joker up the sleeve to have. He seems to play smart, create chances and be in the right place. Should he start though? Not in my opinion. I honestly think he has more impact off the bench. He could be our Ole Gunnar (just not the same type of player). The question will become should continued impact off the bench warrant a start or cement the idea of him as a quality substitution option to have.

Having said all that I wouldn't start Woodrow.


fulhamben

Quote from: Ols_S on August 13, 2015, 11:21:42 AM
I would like to see more Kaca but not at the expense of Pringle, who don't forget made our goal with a cracking effort on Saturday against Cardiff.

Still not entirely sure that Kaca is doing enough with his crossing opportunities but then I haven't been able to judge for myself for a whole game at the cottage recently.

On Matt Smith. He's a great joker up the sleeve to have. He seems to play smart, create chances and be in the right place. Should he start though? Not in my opinion. I honestly think he has more impact off the bench. He could be our Ole Gunnar (just not the same type of player). The question will become should continued impact off the bench warrant a start or cement the idea of him as a quality substitution option to have.

Having said all that I wouldn't start Woodrow.
He's a leftie playing mostly down the right so his crossing won't be that good
CHRIS MARTIN IS SO BAD,  WE NOW PRAISE HIM FOR MAKING A RUN.

N_O_W_S

Quote from: fulhamben on August 13, 2015, 11:49:07 AM
Quote from: Ols_S on August 13, 2015, 11:21:42 AM
I would like to see more Kaca but not at the expense of Pringle, who don't forget made our goal with a cracking effort on Saturday against Cardiff.

Still not entirely sure that Kaca is doing enough with his crossing opportunities but then I haven't been able to judge for myself for a whole game at the cottage recently.

On Matt Smith. He's a great joker up the sleeve to have. He seems to play smart, create chances and be in the right place. Should he start though? Not in my opinion. I honestly think he has more impact off the bench. He could be our Ole Gunnar (just not the same type of player). The question will become should continued impact off the bench warrant a start or cement the idea of him as a quality substitution option to have.

Having said all that I wouldn't start Woodrow.
He's a leftie playing mostly down the right so his crossing won't be that good

That makes sense. Playing out of position then?

Nick Bateman

Quote from: Jonaldiniho 88 on August 12, 2015, 09:54:37 PM
Once again nick you are stating facts and creating a link that I can't see. Who is to be credited with smiths signing? Who is credited with Ohara, pringle, and cairney? If Ali Mac is to blame then he has to be credited for this business. If you honestly think Mitro was keen on staying and Ali Mac had everything to do with his leaving for 1.5m in wages and a possible sell on clause of 4m then I think that is naive. Why didn't Mitro leave earlier or stay with the Greek club he had played with before? Why didn't he go to sporting Lisbon? Why wasn't he spanned up first week of the window! Neither of us know the answers. We can assume. I would assume he wasn't wanted for what we wanted to sell for. I would assume the Greek club couldn't afford him. I would assume he would have gone to Lisbon but we got a better offer from benfica. All assumption but if true then Ali Mac did a very good job. Rigg is in charge of footballing matters so in letting Mitro go it's Riggs fault. Why didn't kit come out in the press and say we are desperate to keep him. Kits fault. The only truth is that this mess has been fulhamfc's fault. The rest is assumption.

Jonaldiniho, I was allowing you to have the last word to put the case (above) for Mackintosh and the positives about his work but you have demanded that I respond so I shall.

Rather than a long composition here is the abridged version: pleased he signed Mitroglou, unlucky he got injured in training and also omitted on occasion by Mad Magath, but the striker could have been injured/suspended at any time in our run-in and it was lunacy to allow Dimitar Berbatov to leave on loan when Fulham needed EVERY hand!!  Berbatov with a proper striking partner would have paid dividends (goals) and possibly kept Fulham up.

Mackintosh has allowed O'Hara, Pringle and Cairney to be recruited by Mike "Rigsby" Rigg but which players has he not?  Rumours abound regarding two quality central defenders not acquired because HE was haggling over the figures (Lewis Dunk for example); was Dwight Gayle also turned down by his 'penny pinching' all to impress Khan, which frankly does not impress this patron??!

After seeing Mitroglou look as though he wants to play a role in the squad the Greek forward is carted off to Benfica on loan.  Why are Fulham continually loaning our good players out??  Mitroglou, Smith, Kaca?  This is ALL Mackintosh's money management affecting the squad.  He seems to be so keen to save money at the expense of the team and the paying fans but in the end it could cost Fulham promotion which would make any such short-term meagre savings look puny in comparison.

Rigg has only taken over the identification of which players to get, Mackintosh is still in the power position of agreeing to sign them and his style is too frugal for my liking.

That is the last I will say on this - one hopes by answering I've shown the 'class' you wanted Jonaldiniho.

As for Kacaniklic, he must play on the left and Pringle play in the middle instead of LVC who hasn't looked so good since and during UEFA U-21s where he was hopeless!  Pringle is being played out-of-position because he is a utility man, but Symons once again tries to force round pegs into square holes.  Play Kaca regularly on the left and soon his few detractors will be won over.
Nick Bateman "knows his footie"


fulhamben

Quote from: Ols_S on August 13, 2015, 12:15:31 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on August 13, 2015, 11:49:07 AM
Quote from: Ols_S on August 13, 2015, 11:21:42 AM
I would like to see more Kaca but not at the expense of Pringle, who don't forget made our goal with a cracking effort on Saturday against Cardiff.

Still not entirely sure that Kaca is doing enough with his crossing opportunities but then I haven't been able to judge for myself for a whole game at the cottage recently.

On Matt Smith. He's a great joker up the sleeve to have. He seems to play smart, create chances and be in the right place. Should he start though? Not in my opinion. I honestly think he has more impact off the bench. He could be our Ole Gunnar (just not the same type of player). The question will become should continued impact off the bench warrant a start or cement the idea of him as a quality substitution option to have.

Having said all that I wouldn't start Woodrow.
He's a leftie playing mostly down the right so his crossing won't be that good

That makes sense. Playing out of position then?
slightly, but lots play the inverted role nowadays. Take duff as an example, I think he played the majority down the right. I'm not a fan of it though
CHRIS MARTIN IS SO BAD,  WE NOW PRAISE HIM FOR MAKING A RUN.

Barrett487

Quote from: Scrumpy on August 13, 2015, 01:54:12 AM
Smith = Legend

Kaca = Lightweight

Sorry Alex  :016:

Smith will have to perform well for a long time before he reaches 'legend' status.

Kaca, unfortunately, is lightweight and only impresses when unpressurised and in space. His vision and pass accuracy is poor imo and he is easily knocked off the ball. Ok, he's scored a couple of goals, the last one was a neat finish, but so it should have been, given how he'd been set up. I would add that i haven't watched Tuesday's highlights yet and hope to be proved wrong.