Matt Smith and Alexander Kacaniklic - POWER & PACE!!

[Sheepskin Junior]

Smith reminds me a bit of Zamora, albeit more of a tank. I think he needs a strike partner to hold the ball up for (give him 20 minutes with Dembele up front, see what happens) to be as good as his potential. But I like him

Kaca is one of my favourite players. I have his name on the back of a shirt. I feel he has buckets of potential and has been improving since the 5-0 vs Norwich couple years back.

Seems like I'm agreeing with you, Nick. Happening quite regularly these days - scary innit? ;)

[N_O_W_S]

Rumours abound regarding two quality central defenders not acquired because HE was haggling over the figures (Lewis Dunk for example); was Dwight Gayle also turned down by his 'penny pinching' all to impress Khan, which frankly does not impress this patron??!

I'm quite enjoying this debate from an outside prospective.

Just to dive in Nick. I understand what you are saying but the above passage highlights somes frustrations with your posts. You start the sentence with "Rumours" which is correct and then carry on like the rumours are statements of fact. It may be that Ali Mac's haggling had an effect on those deals (we will never know lets be honest) but then you throw in a rumour of your own by questioning whether Dwight Gayle not joining (yet! Fingers crossed) is Ali Mac's fault as well. May be Dwight Gayle doesn't want to drop down a league. I also wonder whether he would actually make a huge amount of difference but that is another debate all together.

I also appreciate that you would like to see some money spent, who doesn't. But I would honestly rather the club doesn't throw money around. It encourages higher demands from other clubs and may also mean that when we do want to throw larger chunks around we've already spent it elsewhere. Just my two cents.

[hovewhite]

Nick I happen to think the point you make is a fair one,if the way its written affends some posters so be it cause you cant win em all.

[fulhamben]

Nick I happen to think the point you make is a fair one,if the way its written affends some posters so be it cause you cant win em all.

offends some posters? He personally digs out MJG.someone who adds way more to this board than nick

[Twig]

Alistair, Ally Mac, CEO, Mackintosh,  whatever you want to use I use is no matter and just because I use his first name does not mean he's a friend so don't be silly.. Oh wait that's you all over.
If you carry on reading that clause it can still only be done in a window.
Also requires both clubs and players agreements.

For the record I don't think he should have gone on loan but at least we got an extension in place as well at same time.

Berbatov and Mitroglou are two subjects that have been spoken about many times. Some on here would have kept Berbatov others thought in first half of the season he was a waste of space.
Mitroglou has said he didn't want to play in the league,  rightly or wrongly he has also gone. My understanding is the agreed buy out fee is more than the £4m you mention.

Anyway I'm done on this thread before I get in trouble. We both get under each others skin,  for me it's your blatant bending of the facts or just lying to suit your argument. And then of course when caught out you just ignore the answer.

MJG, your contributions to this board are respected by almost all posters.  They are considered and well informed.
I have read most of your corrections of NB's factual inaccuracies, which are many and blatant, you do not nick pick and in the case of Kit's involvement in Kaka's loan spell you are spot in in your statement of the facts.
As Jona says Nick has the unfortunate habit of presenting opinions as facts.  He emphasises this by underlining, CAPITALISING and bolding his assertions which draws further attention to them. So if they prove to be incorrect he is almost begging for someone to correct him.
Personally I cannot understand anyone seeking attention so dramatically but each to their own. However if you put yourself out there to be shot at Nick don't be surprised if you cop a few bullets.

[Jem]

Alistair, Ally Mac, CEO, Mackintosh,  whatever you want to use I use is no matter and just because I use his first name does not mean he's a friend so don't be silly.. Oh wait that's you all over.
If you carry on reading that clause it can still only be done in a window.
Also requires both clubs and players agreements.

For the record I don't think he should have gone on loan but at least we got an extension in place as well at same time.

Berbatov and Mitroglou are two subjects that have been spoken about many times. Some on here would have kept Berbatov others thought in first half of the season he was a waste of space.
Mitroglou has said he didn't want to play in the league,  rightly or wrongly he has also gone. My understanding is the agreed buy out fee is more than the £4m you mention.

Anyway I'm done on this thread before I get in trouble. We both get under each others skin,  for me it's your blatant bending of the facts or just lying to suit your argument. And then of course when caught out you just ignore the answer.

MJG, your contributions to this board are respected by almost all posters.  They are considered and well informed.
I have read most of your corrections of NB's factual inaccuracies, which are many and blatant, you do not nick pick and in the case of Kit's involvement in Kaka's loan spell you are spot in in your statement of the facts.
As Jona says Nick has the unfortunate habit of presenting opinions as facts.  He emphasises this by underlining, CAPITALISING and bolding his assertions which draws further attention to them. So if they prove to be incorrect he is almost begging for someone to correct him.
Personally I cannot understand anyone seeking attention so dramatically but each to their own. However if you put yourself out there to be shot at Nick don't be surprised if you cop a few bullets.

For me, to attack MJG in this manner deserves a few hand granades.

[Travers Barney]

Sorry if I am a bit off topic what with the various wars  going on here but I have been offering shots of green chartreuse to all and sundry who can recall an occasion when the swede has beat his full back and smashed over a cross for a striker to score.....not had a response yet so beginning to wonder whether he has yet to achieve such a feat or whether it's that green chartreuse is not held in quite the high esteem it was in the bohemian years.

coyw

[Nick Bateman]

Alistair, Ally Mac, CEO, Mackintosh,  whatever you want to use I use is no matter and just because I use his first name does not mean he's a friend so don't be silly.. Oh wait that's you all over.
If you carry on reading that clause it can still only be done in a window.
Also requires both clubs and players agreements.

For the record I don't think he should have gone on loan but at least we got an extension in place as well at same time.

Berbatov and Mitroglou are two subjects that have been spoken about many times. Some on here would have kept Berbatov others thought in first half of the season he was a waste of space.
Mitroglou has said he didn't want to play in the league,  rightly or wrongly he has also gone. My understanding is the agreed buy out fee is more than the £4m you mention.

Anyway I'm done on this thread before I get in trouble. We both get under each others skin,  for me it's your blatant bending of the facts or just lying to suit your argument. And then of course when caught out you just ignore the answer.

MJG, your contributions to this board are respected by almost all posters.  They are considered and well informed.
I have read most of your corrections of NB's factual inaccuracies, which are many and blatant, you do not nick pick and in the case of Kit's involvement in Kaka's loan spell you are spot in in your statement of the facts.
As Jona says Nick has the unfortunate habit of presenting opinions as facts.  He emphasises this by underlining, CAPITALISING and bolding his assertions which draws further attention to them. So if they prove to be incorrect he is almost begging for someone to correct him.
Personally I cannot understand anyone seeking attention so dramatically but each to their own. However if you put yourself out there to be shot at Nick don't be surprised if you cop a few bullets.

For me, to attack MJG in this manner deserves a few hand granades.

In what manner?? To disagree wholeheartedly with his downrating a Fulham centre-forward (before a ball was kicked this season)??  Unless he's The Queen I, and others, have every right to point out his misleading observation, using Opta stats or what-not to basically state that Smith is not good enough for Fulham.

That is in the face of watching him TERRORIZE defences when he is allowed to play and not be loaned out by "Alistair" or dropped by Kit, and then viewing the games by hapless Cauley Woodrow chasing shadows, or young Dembele again trying his earnest but looking very raw particularly in the box.  But of course you will rather agree with your "mate" MJG Jem, instead of listen to the argument and decide what is best for Fulham.

I pointed out that a clause should have been included in any loan deal and the one with Kaca which MJG attempted to state he could not be brought back early - but in the link he posted it shows that had a clause been agreed with the Danish club he went to he could very well have been brought back early if we needed him.  This is common practise in the league and on numerous occasions I have seen this occur.  But Mackintosh probably (one assumes) failed to include this clause so Symons had to wait until the next transfer window.

That shows INCOMPETANCE and the man has learned nothing from being an instrument in Fulham's fall from Premier Division grace.  

Smith reminds me a bit of Zamora, albeit more of a tank. I think he needs a strike partner to hold the ball up for (give him 20 minutes with Dembele up front, see what happens) to be as good as his potential. But I like him

Kaca is one of my favourite players. I have his name on the back of a shirt. I feel he has buckets of potential and has been improving since the 5-0 vs Norwich couple years back.

Seems like I'm agreeing with you, Nick. Happening quite regularly these days - scary innit? ;)

Yes Sheepskin Junior, Smith does have the physical attributes of Zamora and the style but I feel his potential is greater.  The last couple of seasons Kacaniklic, perhaps because of a slow decline in the quality of our squad, is now standing out as one of Fulham's best, but I feel Symons is not using him enough and preferring to play Pringle out of position rather than a natural wide leftie who could give the strikers better service - plus the pace Kaca has is second to none in our team.

Pace is a major weapon in football.  One sees the likes of Gareth Bale and even Raheem Sterling giving opponents massive problems, purely on their having pace; take that away from those two and they would never command the record transfer fees they commanded.  As said, play Kaca on the left wing over a few games and EVERYONE will see his true worth.

Rumours abound regarding two quality central defenders not acquired because HE was haggling over the figures (Lewis Dunk for example); was Dwight Gayle also turned down by his 'penny pinching' all to impress Khan, which frankly does not impress this patron??!

I'm quite enjoying this debate from an outside prospective.

Just to dive in Nick. I understand what you are saying but the above passage highlights somes frustrations with your posts. You start the sentence with "Rumours" which is correct and then carry on like the rumours are statements of fact. It may be that Ali Mac's haggling had an effect on those deals (we will never know lets be honest) but then you throw in a rumour of your own by questioning whether Dwight Gayle not joining (yet! Fingers crossed) is Ali Mac's fault as well. May be Dwight Gayle doesn't want to drop down a league. I also wonder whether he would actually make a huge amount of difference but that is another debate all together.

I also appreciate that you would like to see some money spent, who doesn't. But I would honestly rather the club doesn't throw money around. It encourages higher demands from other clubs and may also mean that when we do want to throw larger chunks around we've already spent it elsewhere. Just my two cents.

Ols, some posters have invented remarks that I state rumours/opinions as FACTS which I have not.  They have such a feeble counterpoint they need to exaggerate what is being highlighted.  I am casting DOUBT on the people running our football club and providing examples of where things MAY have been botched or misappropriated.  I think everyone accepts extensive errors were made at the top to put Fulham in the predicament of being demoted, and to date, I do not see this changing!!

So Alistair has saved the club £1.5million in wages by loaning an international striker out just as he was looking the part.  Hoorah!! Let's have a street party with bunting, Ali Mack has saved us £1.5million and has possibly cost Fulham certain promotion by rather than having a fantastic squad, having just a slightly decent one.  The math does not add up.

One doesn't know about Gayle; he was here and then he went.  Draw your own conclusions.  About Dunk, same again.  What one does begin to see is a pattern, that Mackintosh is more keen on saving a few bob than ensuring Fulham gain a tremendous talent.  I could be mistaken but that is what I believe is happening.

Nick I happen to think the point you make is a fair one,if the way its written affends some posters so be it cause you cant win em all.

Exactly Hovewhite.  Nobody minded when MJG constantly picked me up on minor details and miss the entire thrust of my posting, but I do so once back to him, and then some folk are upset.  I am human also, if you p**** me do I not bleed??  

In the end, what is best for Fulham the team matters most - one does not welcome a "Ken Bates" style of fiscal control at the club but rather a "Matthew Harding" vision.

We CAN win automatic promotion this season if we cease loaning out our best players, bring in a few and actually have a go.  If Mackintosh is on board for that concept then I will back him all the way.

[Nick Bateman]

Sorry if I am a bit off topic what with the various wars  going on here but I have been offering shots of green chartreuse to all and sundry who can recall an occasion when the swede has beat his full back and smashed over a cross for a striker to score.....not had a response yet so beginning to wonder whether he has yet to achieve such a feat or whether it's that green chartreuse is not held in quite the high esteem it was in the bohemian years.

coyw

Well formulated counter-point and with some humour.  I would say Kaca is only 23 years old NOW, and much of his past was part of a learning curve.  But given a regular place and in this lower level league, he will shine and his pace will be his biggest weapon which Northerners will struggle to contain.

[Barrett487]

Sorry if I am a bit off topic what with the various wars  going on here but I have been offering shots of green chartreuse to all and sundry who can recall an occasion when the swede has beat his full back and smashed over a cross for a striker to score.....not had a response yet so beginning to wonder whether he has yet to achieve such a feat or whether it's that green chartreuse is not held in quite the high esteem it was in the bohemian years.

coyw

I've never heard of the 'Green Chartreuse' award for fiction, for that's what your scenario is. Your bottle will remain undiminished i fear.

[Jonaldiniho 88]

Once again nick you are stating facts and creating a link that I can't see. Who is to be credited with smiths signing? Who is credited with Ohara, pringle, and cairney? If Ali Mac is to blame then he has to be credited for this business. If you honestly think Mitro was keen on staying and Ali Mac had everything to do with his leaving for 1.5m in wages and a possible sell on clause of 4m then I think that is naive. Why didn't Mitro leave earlier or stay with the Greek club he had played with before? Why didn't he go to sporting Lisbon? Why wasn't he spanned up first week of the window! Neither of us know the answers. We can assume. I would assume he wasn't wanted for what we wanted to sell for. I would assume the Greek club couldn't afford him. I would assume he would have gone to Lisbon but we got a better offer from benfica. All assumption but if true then Ali Mac did a very good job. Rigg is in charge of footballing matters so in letting Mitro go it's Riggs fault. Why didn't kit come out in the press and say we are desperate to keep him. Kits fault. The only truth is that this mess has been fulhamfc's fault. The rest is assumption.

Jonaldiniho, I was allowing you to have the last word to put the case (above) for Mackintosh and the positives about his work but you have demanded that I respond so I shall.

Rather than a long composition here is the abridged version: pleased he signed Mitroglou, unlucky he got injured in training and also omitted on occasion by Mad Magath, but the striker could have been injured/suspended at any time in our run-in and it was lunacy to allow Dimitar Berbatov to leave on loan when Fulham needed EVERY hand!!  Berbatov with a proper striking partner would have paid dividends (goals) and possibly kept Fulham up.

Mackintosh has allowed O'Hara, Pringle and Cairney to be recruited by Mike "Rigsby" Rigg but which players has he not?  Rumours abound regarding two quality central defenders not acquired because HE was haggling over the figures (Lewis Dunk for example); was Dwight Gayle also turned down by his 'penny pinching' all to impress Khan, which frankly does not impress this patron??!

After seeing Mitroglou look as though he wants to play a role in the squad the Greek forward is carted off to Benfica on loan.  Why are Fulham continually loaning our good players out??  Mitroglou, Smith, Kaca?  This is ALL Mackintosh's money management affecting the squad.  He seems to be so keen to save money at the expense of the team and the paying fans but in the end it could cost Fulham promotion which would make any such short-term meagre savings look puny in comparison.

Rigg has only taken over the identification of which players to get, Mackintosh is still in the power position of agreeing to sign them and his style is too frugal for my liking.

That is the last I will say on this - one hopes by answering I've shown the 'class' you wanted Jonaldiniho.

As for Kacaniklic, he must play on the left and Pringle play in the middle instead of LVC who hasn't looked so good since and during UEFA U-21s where he was hopeless!  Pringle is being played out-of-position because he is a utility man, but Symons once again tries to force round pegs into square holes.  Play Kaca regularly on the left and soon his few detractors will be won over.

Thanks for responding. I still find you blame Ali Mac for too much for making decisions you don't know he made. Once again you have created a post that people want to comment on and I enjoy your posts a lot although I often don't agree or don't agree with aspects. This one is no different. Thanks for letting me have the previous last word and keep posting. My OPs never get the replies yours do. That says something. Probably down to Ali Mac making people uninterested in my posts haha. Only joking.

[EJL]

If anything Kacaniklic's progress has completely stalled from our relegation season onwards. He ended the 12/13 campaign as the best player on the pitch against Swansea, and a winger who looked like he could score goals. Since then it's been a mix of being hauled off by Jol, going out on loan or playing out of position. Hopefully Kaca can finally push on.

[N_O_W_S]

Ols, some posters have invented remarks that I state rumours/opinions as FACTS which I have not.  They have such a feeble counterpoint they need to exaggerate what is being highlighted.  I am casting DOUBT on the people running our football club and providing examples of where things MAY have been botched or misappropriated.  I think everyone accepts extensive errors were made at the top to put Fulham in the predicament of being demoted, and to date, I do not see this changing!!

So Alistair has saved the club £1.5million in wages by loaning an international striker out just as he was looking the part.  Hoorah!! Let's have a street party with bunting, Ali Mack has saved us £1.5million and has possibly cost Fulham certain promotion by rather than having a fantastic squad, having just a slightly decent one.  The math does not add up.

One doesn't know about Gayle; he was here and then he went.  Draw your own conclusions.  About Dunk, same again.  What one does begin to see is a pattern, that Mackintosh is more keen on saving a few bob than ensuring Fulham gain a tremendous talent.  I could be mistaken but that is what I believe is happening.
[/quote]

I agree that maybe the club could have been handled better over the last several seasons but I don't think that falls on one person as has been endlessly discussed on here.

I too have doubts over what has and hasn't gone on at the club but to blame Ali Mac for loaning out a striker who has stated he doesn't want to play here seems sensible. You may have seen the photos on the offal of Mitro's return to training. It didn't look like an open arm welcome back from the squad. I have no doubt that he is a quality player. But having someone around that doesn't want to be here is likely to affect the squad mentality and harmony as a whole. Its a fragile state of mind anyway I would assume after what was a pretty disastrous season last year.

Just to address the wage few bob comment. Maybe that is what is happening. But can I ask would you like to see Dunk here on £35k when he maybe warrants £15k? Again with Gayle as I said above we don't really have control over his wages so who knows why that deal stalled (if there ever was one in the pipeline). I also wouldn't put us not being promotion candidates on Ali Mac. The existing talent at the club should have performed better last season. This season we will have to wait and see. I don't think a Dunk or a Gayle are the key solution some are claiming. Just an opinion.

I enjoy your posts. Some have some merit to them, some don't (in my opinion), but you always get a good heated argument going!

[N_O_W_S]

If anything Kacaniklic's progress has completely stalled from our relegation season onwards. He ended the 12/13 campaign as the best player on the pitch against Swansea, and a winger who looked like he could score goals. Since then it's been a mix of being hauled off by Jol, going out on loan or playing out of position. Hopefully Kaca can finally push on.

I agree. Although at least he was part of a great deal of cash plus him and delle valle for Paul Konchesky.

I would think that first team football would help him progress, but he has had first team loans. Hopefully we can see his form from preseason and the Capital One carry into the league.

[Bronaldinho]

Kacaniklic is a funny player. Yes, he's good at running with the ball and being direct but far too many times he's just ran into the wrong place and should have offloaded the ball sooner etc.

Obviously there's potential but with one-year left on his deal I can't see him featuring heavily if he's not in the long-term plans of the club.

[Nick Bateman]

Kacaniklic is a funny player. Yes, he's good at running with the ball and being direct but far too many times he's just ran into the wrong place and should have offloaded the ball sooner etc.

Obviously there's potential but with one-year left on his deal I can't see him featuring heavily if he's not in the long-term plans of the club.

That is shocking news!!  Kacaniklic on last year of contract.  This would be utter folly if we don't get him to renew it now, even if he isn't wanted by Symons.

[N_O_W_S]

Kacaniklic is a funny player. Yes, he's good at running with the ball and being direct but far too many times he's just ran into the wrong place and should have offloaded the ball sooner etc.

Obviously there's potential but with one-year left on his deal I can't see him featuring heavily if he's not in the long-term plans of the club.

That is shocking news!!  Kacaniklic on last year of contract.  This would be utter folly if we don't get him to renew it now, even if he isn't wanted by Symons.

I agree it would be a shame to lose what is a decent squad player for nothing. At least we didn't pay anything for him!

[VicHalomsLovechild]

The Club (any club) when handing out a contract would work out the worth of that player to them over a set period. If the player performs really well or other Clubs become interested in them, the Club may step in early and renew, if both parties agree. If on the other hand the player doesn't improve or the playing style changes etc etc the Club may not offer him another contract and he leaves at the end of it. The Club meantime looks to invest elsewhere. You (who knows his footie) like the rest of us knows very little about what is actually happening within the Club. You're ignoring the players value to all those involved with him at the Club. Which only they know, so you can continue to having a pop at someone you detest.   

[Nick Bateman]

I do not detest Ali Mac.  I just did not like many decisions he made which has harmed the club I care for.  Simples.