Author Topic: We have been lied to once again  (Read 3989 times)

Offline Arthur

  • Silver Fox
  • *
  • Posts: 2263
Re: We have been lied to once again
« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2016, 12:23:26 AM »
You are addressing your remark to the wrong person; it is the O.P. to whom this should be directed.

I have merely pointed out that his harking back to a remark made two years ago makes his argument 'old hat'.

I assume that if he knew of a recent statement to support his claim, he would refer to it.

As you are aware of a number of 'misleading and evasive statements', it would help the O.P. if you quoted something current that reinforces his belief that 'we're being lied to again'.


Oh no I'm not !

As you've been told elsewhere contributors don't have to provide fact upon fact to back up their posts but if you had your wits about you you would be aware of the owners bold statement at 12.30 on the 27th April 2016 when he promised a team capable of promotion and the aim was promotion.

And before anyone starts pulling Khans words apart and trying to make out it proves nothing let me remind you nobody put a gun to his head and made him say that and while no one can guarantee promotion those words don't match whats happened so far.

Seeing as this has turned into somewhat of a pantomime: 'Oh yes, you are!'

I pointed out that the O.P's alleged 'lie' was a remark Khan made some two years ago and that it was, therefore, nothing new. I don't need to be aware of what our Chairman has said since to know that this is so.

Telling me that Khan has made similar comments in the two years since does not support my view; on the contrary, being in possession of such knowledge can only help the O.P.

Hence, my suggestion that you would be better off letting the O.P. know that there is a recent statement which he can draw upon.


As it is, the verbatim remark to which you refer is: 'Slaviša will be given the green light to build a team capable of promotion... and take aim at promotion'.

Is this a lie? Too early to say, in my opinion.



Offline Arthur

  • Silver Fox
  • *
  • Posts: 2263
Re: We have been lied to once again
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2016, 12:35:44 AM »
Arthur,

I would like to remind you, that this is a footballing forum, a place where people come to discuss their footballing opinions, not a place where they have to constantly back up their opinions with facts or creditable statements.

The OP has not been misleading, nor should they have to provide you with factual information, just so it satisfies your level of beliefs.

Please debate reasonably, or not at all.

Having behaved so improperly as for you to need to admonish me publicly, I have deleted both posts that precede your intervention.

I confess, however, that I am struggling with your interpretation of what constitutes reasonable debate.

The O.P. was attacking Shahid Khan. As our owner is not in the position to defend himself, I believed I was permitted to do so.

Indeed, were Khan to have met his accusers today, the discussion may well have gone along the following lines (the same lines as did my debate in this thread):

'You're lying yet again!' the O.P. exclaims.
'No, I'm not; that remark is two years old,' Khan replies.
'I think the O.P's right. You've told a number of lies,' another unhappy supporter interjects.
'If I'm 'lying again', tell me, then: What's the lie?' our Chairman asks.

I would argue that anyone would be hard put to come up with a more natural reaction than these two responses. Nor would anyone think that this defence was in any way unreasonable.

Apprentice to the Maestro

  • Guest
Re: We have been lied to once again
« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2016, 12:40:52 AM »
If you go back far enough you will find other similar statements about plans for the club made by the owner that can reasonably be interpreted in a certain positive way.

It is also fair to view the actions taken by the club following those statements to be inconsistent with those reasonable expectations that the owner had led us to believe. 

There is a history of misleading and evasive statements building, if you are not aware of them then you are not in full command of the facts. 

You are addressing your remark to the wrong person; it is the O.P. to whom this should be directed.

I have merely pointed out that his harking back to a remark made two years ago makes his argument 'old hat'.

I assume that if he knew of a recent statement to support his claim, he would refer to it.

As you are aware of a number of 'misleading and evasive statements', it would help the O.P. if you quoted something current that reinforces his belief that 'we're being lied to again'.


Oh no I'm not !

As you've been told elsewhere contributors don't have to provide fact upon fact to back up their posts but if you had your wits about you you would be aware of the owners bold statement at 12.30 on the 27th April 2016 when he promised a team capable of promotion and the aim was promotion.

And before anyone starts pulling his words apart and trying to make out it proves nothing let me remind you nobody put a gun to his head and made him say that and while no one can guarantee promotion those words don't match whats happened so far.

And you are telling us now for certain that this team or the one at the end of the transfer window is not capable of promotion?

Here we go again, you just can't accept someone's opinion can you? You have to highlight in bold words 'for certain' as if the poster has to prove to you that we won't get promoted. Once again, who cares, it's his opinion, he's entitled to it, if we go up we go up, if we don't we don't.

And yes, you're a bore, just like your little whinge above, about how this thread is the worst you've ever seen, And this the fof way, you're so overdramatic it's unreal.   

I accept opinions all the time on here even if I do not agree with them if, boringly, those opinions fit with the facts and stats that we know and are coherently expressed rather than being based on a series of dubious and pessimistic assumptions.

What is strange is that some posters who offer their opinions very forcibly get very sensitive when asked about the basis of those views.

What is an opinion worth if it is not worth explaining?

In this case I am pointing out that it is rather early to dismiss a whole season when the transfer window has not closed and a ball has yet to be kicked in anger.

You do not have to agree with that but many will feel that is a valid query.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 12:46:09 AM by Apprentice to the Maestro »


Offline toshes mate

  • Gentleman Jim
  • ***
  • Posts: 6403
  • Vitam Impendere Vero
Re: We have been lied to once again
« Reply #43 on: August 03, 2016, 12:45:06 AM »
Most every business I can think of these days seems to make promises that are not kept.  It's in advertising, it's in hype, it's in the media, it's everywhere, even in sport.  I know little about Mr Khan aside from what I have seen and read from the obvious sources but it would seem strange to buy a football club with a reasonable potential income just to watch it decay away and so whatever frustrations we feel about Fulham FC we must accept he has been thwarted by management appointments that have, up until Mr Jokanovic, failed.  Players, lots of them, have been brought into the team but have not performed to ability or required standard in a team that has consistently under-achieved, and it is Mr Khan's money that has purchased them and paid their wages.  Mr Khan appears to have done most of what he could reasonably be expected to do given he has staff aside from the football coaches advising as necessary.  Perhaps the advice Mr Khan has been getting has been inappropriate but again who would know outside the Club?   We are all good at the blame game, it's human nature, but it's a lot harder to contribute positive influence during tough times. Like shouting for your team when they are five nothing down and only ten minutes into a game it is about our DNA and how we raise the morale of everybody when there is not much to feel happy about.   We get a lot of practice of that at Fulham and we should be good at it.
   

Apprentice to the Maestro

  • Guest
Re: We have been lied to once again
« Reply #44 on: August 03, 2016, 12:51:12 AM »
If you go back far enough you will find other similar statements about plans for the club made by the owner that can reasonably be interpreted in a certain positive way.

It is also fair to view the actions taken by the club following those statements to be inconsistent with those reasonable expectations that the owner had led us to believe. 

There is a history of misleading and evasive statements building, if you are not aware of them then you are not in full command of the facts. 

You are addressing your remark to the wrong person; it is the O.P. to whom this should be directed.

I have merely pointed out that his harking back to a remark made two years ago makes his argument 'old hat'.

I assume that if he knew of a recent statement to support his claim, he would refer to it.

As you are aware of a number of 'misleading and evasive statements', it would help the O.P. if you quoted something current that reinforces his belief that 'we're being lied to again'.


Oh no I'm not !

As you've been told elsewhere contributors don't have to provide fact upon fact to back up their posts but if you had your wits about you you would be aware of the owners bold statement at 12.30 on the 27th April 2016 when he promised a team capable of promotion and the aim was promotion.

And before anyone starts pulling his words apart and trying to make out it proves nothing let me remind you nobody put a gun to his head and made him say that and while no one can guarantee promotion those words don't match whats happened so far.

And you are telling us now for certain that this team or the one at the end of the transfer window is not capable of promotion?

Here we go again, you just can't accept someone's opinion can you? You have to highlight in bold words 'for certain' as if the poster has to prove to you that we won't get promoted. Once again, who cares, it's his opinion, he's entitled to it, if we go up we go up, if we don't we don't.

And yes, you're a bore, just like your little whinge above, about how this thread is the worst you've ever seen, And this the fof way, you're so overdramatic it's unreal.   

As advised by FriendsofFulham, if a poster does not like the posts of another member then they can choose to 'ignore' them and so not see their future posts.

Offline Texas White

  • Legend
  • ***
  • Posts: 1062
Re: We have been lied to once again
« Reply #45 on: August 03, 2016, 01:06:16 AM »
I will defer judgement on the transfers/Khan's promises/Joka's capabilities until November 1st....by then things should be very clear indeed....
could not agree more 10 games is when I'll start pointing fingers if needs be, but let's hope it doesn't come to that.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk




Yes agreed


Offline Brawn

  • Graham Leggat
  • **
  • Posts: 408
Re: We have been lied to once again
« Reply #46 on: August 03, 2016, 06:23:34 PM »
Khan's ownership has been poor from the word go:

1 - Not letting Jol go in the summer of 2013.
2 - Taking too long to let Jol go during the season (it took 5 consecutive losses).
3 - Not giving Meulensteen enough time.
4 - Going off the back of Mackintosh's advice to hire Magath somewhat dumbfoundedly.
5 - Sacking Meulensteen just after the transfer window when we were turning a corner.
6 - Not sacking Magath in the summer of 2014.
7 - Not allowing Magath to speak to Southampton in the summer of 2014.
8 - Allowing Magath to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
9 - Taking too long to sack Magath after the start of the season.
10 - Taking over a month to appoint Kit Symons even though there were no other candidates.
11 - Appointing Mike Rigg.
12 - Zero ins in January 2015.
13 - According to TransferMarkt, not spending any money (net) on transfers since relegation.
14 - Taking over a month to hire Jokanovic.
15 - Allowing the club to fall under FFP as a result of Magath's madness in Summer 2014 (Dino Fazlic et al).
16 - Allowing McCormack to leave.
17 - Annoying Jokanovic (read his post-match comments after the Palace(?) friendly).

Offline Chutney

  • Silver Fox
  • *
  • Posts: 2172
Re: We have been lied to once again
« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2016, 06:34:13 PM »
Khan's ownership has been poor from the word go:

1 - Not letting Jol go in the summer of 2013.
2 - Taking too long to let Jol go during the season (it took 5 consecutive losses).
3 - Not giving Meulensteen enough time.
4 - Going off the back of Mackintosh's advice to hire Magath somewhat dumbfoundedly.
5 - Sacking Meulensteen just after the transfer window when we were turning a corner.
6 - Not sacking Magath in the summer of 2014.
7 - Not allowing Magath to speak to Southampton in the summer of 2014.
8 - Allowing Magath to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
9 - Taking too long to sack Magath after the start of the season.
10 - Taking over a month to appoint Kit Symons even though there were no other candidates.
11 - Appointing Mike Rigg.
12 - Zero ins in January 2015.
13 - According to TransferMarkt, not spending any money (net) on transfers since relegation.
14 - Taking over a month to hire Jokanovic.
15 - Allowing the club to fall under FFP as a result of Magath's madness in Summer 2014 (Dino Fazlic et al).
16 - Allowing McCormack to leave.
17 - Annoying Jokanovic (read his post-match comments after the Palace(?) friendly).

Can we get this tweeted to ffclive for the big screen on friday?