News:

Use a VPN to stream games Safely and Securely 🔒
A Virtual Private Network can also allow you to
watch games Not being broadcast in the UK For
more Information and how to Sign Up go to
https://go.nordvpn.net/SH4FE

Main Menu


Transfer Summary - How much was our net gain?

Started by davew, September 01, 2016, 08:39:19 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

westcliff white

the fact is though it isnt a net gain but a net spend. Given he has spent big in the past its harsh to say he doesnt put his hand in his pocket, we are now restricted by FFP even if it is a rolling 3 year average, we wioll be retsricted to some degree.

Every day is a Fulham day

FulhamStu

He has also always said he wants us to be self sustainable.

General

Quote from: Chutney on September 01, 2016, 12:14:31 PM
Quote from: grandad on September 01, 2016, 12:06:37 PM
I think Mr Khan & his team have done a terrific job this window. To acquire the number of excellent players he has for a minimal outlay is to be applauded. It is not written in stone that unless one spends to the limit one has not been successful in the market.
We have learned over the last 10 years that spending big does not guarantee one a top player or success.

Its not about the amount spent, its about the promises made. I agree we should  applaud him had he come out and said " we will get a number of excellent players for a minimal outlay" but he didn't. His claim was that we will do "whatever it takes" to get promoted, he has not fulfilled that promise. 

So no, I will not applaud a man for deceiving us to sell tickets.

People are keen to throw out the "spending big doesn't guarantee success" when that is completely beyond the point. The point is Khan promised to do something and that promise proved to be a lie.

Yes we now have a team capable of finishing around 10th, possibly at a push it could fight for the play offs.

Have we done "whatever it takes" to gain promotion? Not at all.


Umm - whatever it takes to gain promotion?

We're second in the league and have just bought one of the best strikers in the league statistically and improved our squad no end. If that gets us promotion then that is essentially whatever it takes. It's not the opposite. If we get in to the playoffs and then miss out, but strengthen and get promoted the year after, he still would've been proved right, even if not done within a year. He didn't set a timeframe like Al Fayed did and so doesn't have to stick to one. It shows sensible management (finally(, just a shame he had to get us relegated and take two seasons of F*****g everything up before it started to make sense.

He does though need to pay more attention to Jokanovic now. Jokanovic is a good thing for this club, he has reiterated his want to stay and be with us long term and has a sensible head on shoulders with seeming logic to get us going properly.  That's not something we should tamper with, especially with the amount of poor managerial appointments we've had since Hodgson (arguable Mark Hughes too).



Jonaldiniho 88

Quote from: grandad on September 01, 2016, 01:04:47 PM
"Whatever it takes" does not necessarily mean I will spend up to the limit we are allowed. Money is only part of the whole picture which Mr Khan was referring to.
The same few are still clutching at every last straw to have a go at our owner.
Get over it & just concentrate on the football  & leave the rest of running the Club to those who know best. Be thankful we are not owned by Oyston or the Venky´s.

Agree gramps. Also at a time like this when we are doing well (Khan deserves as much credit for success as he gets stick for failure), let's be happy. Why complain when we are playing well? Well done everyone who got us going in the right direction
I feel clubs that spend more won't necessarily do better than us

Apprentice to the Maestro

Quote from: Chutney on September 01, 2016, 08:45:24 AM
Transfer market has it as spent £20.19mil and received £19.18mil.

Meaning a loss of £1.01mil.

Meaning we've barely invested anything and still managed to improve the entire squad.

What this means is that we have plenty of scope to spend in January if we need to.

While it is disappointing to again see us not really push the boat out and spend big, I think its been sensible and the players we now have are capable of top 10.

I think that £20m only includes the Martin loan fee. If we take up the option then we will have spent a significant additional sum.

General

Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on September 01, 2016, 02:33:26 PM
Quote from: Chutney on September 01, 2016, 08:45:24 AM
Transfer market has it as spent £20.19mil and received £19.18mil.

Meaning a loss of £1.01mil.

Meaning we've barely invested anything and still managed to improve the entire squad.

What this means is that we have plenty of scope to spend in January if we need to.

While it is disappointing to again see us not really push the boat out and spend big, I think its been sensible and the players we now have are capable of top 10.

I think that £20m only includes the Martin loan fee. If we take up the option then we will have spent a significant additional sum.


15 permanent outs

plus 5 loans..

So 20 (good maths I know) out... must be one of the largest exoduses we've had in a long while.. It'd be interesting to do the analysis on all our outgoings totalling in terms of money freed up, either by wages or fees.

Stearman, Ross, Stekelenberg, Mitroglu, Amorebieta must've all been higher earners... I can imagine their salaries totalled over a year, even if we were contributing small amounts could've made a difference too to our ability to spend. We may still be in net profit by a way. Undisclosed fees for Stekelenberg and Mitroglu and Amorebieta... I imagine they all went for a significant fee. Stek - £? - Mitroglu - £? and Amorebieta? Ross most have down as being £12 mill right?


Apprentice to the Maestro

Quote from: Statto on September 01, 2016, 10:06:55 AM
We clearly haven't spent much, if anything.

To the extent we were going to judge Khan on this window it must go down as another test he has failed.

But the team looks half decent, albeit not as good as it could have been, so probably best just to get behind them now and hope Jokanovic can work a miracle.

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-fulham/transfers/verein/931/saison_id/2016

The Transfermarkt figure of £20m spent seems to only include the Martin loan fee. If we convert the option in January then we will have spent approximately £1m + £7m = £8m over what we took in.

Will that be a big enough spend for you?

Apprentice to the Maestro

#27
Quote from: Chutney on September 01, 2016, 11:45:00 AM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on September 01, 2016, 11:35:20 AM
Quote from: Roberty on September 01, 2016, 10:39:20 AM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on September 01, 2016, 10:11:38 AM
Remember Mr Khant had stated "whatever it takes", one can assume that £1:01m is " whatever it takes"

The amount we spend on transfer is not the full story.

You have to take into account how much we are spending on wages - if we are spending less he has even more wiggle room in the January transfer window but if it is more we will have less

"what ever it takes" he's spent BIG on players during his tenure - Motro and Ross for instance - it did not do any good - Ross may well have scored lots of goal but our playing style meant we let too many in - much better to get the right players.

Mr Khant said "whatever it takes" prior to releasing season tickets this season......I'm only quoting him

The man will tell us whatever we want to hear to sell tickets, we are naive if we still believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

I really do think the squad has improved, that much is clear, however I am tired of Khan taking us for mugs in regards to his communication and messages to the fans.

If he'd come out at the start of the window and said "we will buy carefully and try not to overspend" then he would of been telling the truth. But he knew that telling the truth wouldn't sell the same amount of tickets as a wild promise with no substance.

"Whatever is takes" was an outright lie.

What we have done this summer is buy carefully and improve the squad with cheap but useful players that have no doubt progressed us. What we haven't done this summer is "whatever it takes" to get promotion, which is what was promised.

Result of the window for me:

- Happy with the squad.

- Disappointed in the owner for yet more lies.



Fortunately for normal human interaction few of us would take such an extreme interpretation of the phrase "Whatever it takes" and are certainly not as gullible as to invest in a season ticket purely on the basis of it.

Also, the season has only just begun and who can say what the outcome will be as others have pointed out. Maybe we have got what it takes.

ToodlesMcToot

The only net gain that matters to me relates to points .... 25 to 30 of them over last season, hopefully.
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." — The Dude


Porthogs FC

Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on September 01, 2016, 02:58:04 PM
Quote from: Statto on September 01, 2016, 10:06:55 AM
We clearly haven't spent much, if anything.

To the extent we were going to judge Khan on this window it must go down as another test he has failed.

But the team looks half decent, albeit not as good as it could have been, so probably best just to get behind them now and hope Jokanovic can work a miracle.

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-fulham/transfers/verein/931/saison_id/2016

The Transfermarkt figure of £20m spent seems to only include the Martin loan fee. If we convert the option in January then we will have spent approximately £1m + £7m = £8m over what we took in.

Will that be a big enough spend for you?

This. Crazy that people think the club hasn't spent just because they went for a loan with an option to buy (net 7 - 8 Million transaction which initially is only ~$1.5 - 2 Million). On top of that, if we bought Kalas and Piazon, we'd be WAY over, probably around a net spend of $15 million if all were purchased rather than loaned.

Shrewd business by the club.

The Equalizer

Why do we need to spend big to do well? This summer, the Premier League clubs spent £1.165Billion on players.

Last season Leicester City won the league with a squad worth £45 million.
"We won't look back on this season with regret, but with pride. Because we won what many teams fail to win in a lifetime – an unprecedented degree of respect and support that saw British football fans unite and cheer on Fulham with heart." Mohammed Al Fayed, May 2010

Twitter: @equalizerffc

dhowells21

Absolutely ridiculous some of the claims that Khan has failed in this window.

If we'd spent 14 million on Kodija then would it be classed a success? Just because he spent a boat load of money?

There's absolutely no need to go wild on spending if it's not necessary. One of the biggest reasons our net spend is so low, is cause of the amount of money we got in. We spent 20 mln on players, and have much better quality than what we let out overall.

We've managed to improve the squad a lot, without a big red mark on our books. How is that not a successful transfer window..


MJG

When your clubs 'Income' (not transfer fees) is only going to be around the £25-28M figure and your staff costs 'Wages' are going to be somewhere in the region of £22-27M and that's without 'other' running costs. You can see that a club can only run on transfer profit or a board who put money in.

My guess at things is:



Even if you take the transfermarket website figures and add Martin to the 'bought' figure we have easily exceeded the difference between income and expenditure at a very basic level. In a one year cycle Khan can put £5M in within the FFP rules to cover part of a £13M loss. I'd say looking at money in, transfers in, possible wages that we are going to show a loss this year.
Will it be at the £13M allowable one under FFP? probably not as it stands, but i think it will be mighty close come the end of the season. I dont think there is a lot more than can be asked at this moment in time.



Apprentice to the Maestro

Quote from: Statto on September 01, 2016, 03:57:57 PM
The whatever it takes comment was made at the same time as the statement "it's not about balancing the books" which reinforces the view it meant spending generously

Agree with chutney's sentiment

Well then you are not being realistic, particularly for someone who keeps quoting figures.

Khan has also said we have to be sustainable and there are the FFP rules that we all know about plus a few other things like the expenditure on Motspur Park and keeping a balance between players in the wage bill.

If you look at MJG's analysis Khan is pushing the boundaries on what can be spent on the playing side.

We can all argue whether Khan has spent wisely or got value for money and probably agree that he has not and where it went wrong but he seems to be spending within a reasonable margin of what is allowed.

YankeeJim

I really feel that we have made good progress. Khan came in with little knowledge and after the team had been bleed dry. It would seem that Mo got the best of that deal by far. Khan at first did what many here have begged for and "splashed the cash" for a certain Greek. Mistake. He then splashed the cash for a certain Scott. Better, but not enough supporting characters. This window the focus was changed and we revamped the entire squad. Perhaps Khan has learned. Perhaps he got out of the way. Doesn't matter. The team is markedly better. If we are still successful come January, then maybe that would be the time to buy that one player that can put us over the top. The club seems to be managed much better and there seems to be a plan in place. No more "splashing the cash" which to me smacks of desperation.
Whatever the outcome. Khan will get the blame and SJ will get any credit. That, I suppose is the nature of football.
Its not that I could and others couldn't.
Its that I did and others didn't.


Riverside

Shocked that Khan is still taking a beating after this transfer window .

A complete overhaul of the squad with almost every position improved with starters and all positions now have cover .

And a 1st class manager in place .

I for one think he and yes Rigg have finally got it right and should be congratulated .

FFC1999

Are people really still moaning? We've had one of our most productive transfer windows where we have sold one star and created a fully stacked squad. Jokanovic has been clever in bringing in bargains from abroad instead of pleasing the many on here by paying big for championship standard players. Ayite - 2million instead of doing a Villa who paid 6 million plus Traore for a like for like in Adomah.

grandad

Quote from: MJG on September 01, 2016, 04:47:41 PM
When your clubs 'Income' (not transfer fees) is only going to be around the £25-28M figure and your staff costs 'Wages' are going to be somewhere in the region of £22-27M and that's without 'other' running costs. You can see that a club can only run on transfer profit or a board who put money in.

My guess at things is:



Even if you take the transfermarket website figures and add Martin to the 'bought' figure we have easily exceeded the difference between income and expenditure at a very basic level. In a one year cycle Khan can put £5M in within the FFP rules to cover part of a £13M loss. I'd say looking at money in, transfers in, possible wages that we are going to show a loss this year.
Will it be at the £13M allowable one under FFP? probably not as it stands, but i think it will be mighty close come the end of the season. I dont think there is a lot more than can be asked at this moment in time.

Excellent post Mike.Perhaps a few on here will realize why we have not been able to spend the big millions they were screaming for.
Where there's a will there's a wife


MJG

#38
Quote from: Statto on September 01, 2016, 06:29:32 PM
Quote from: MJG on September 01, 2016, 04:47:41 PM
When your clubs 'Income' (not transfer fees) is only going to be around the £25-28M figure and your staff costs 'Wages' are going to be somewhere in the region of £22-27M and that's without 'other' running costs. You can see that a club can only run on transfer profit or a board who put money in.

My guess at things is:



Even if you take the transfermarket website figures and add Martin to the 'bought' figure we have easily exceeded the difference between income and expenditure at a very basic level. In a one year cycle Khan can put £5M in within the FFP rules to cover part of a £13M loss. I'd say looking at money in, transfers in, possible wages that we are going to show a loss this year.
Will it be at the £13M allowable one under FFP? probably not as it stands, but i think it will be mighty close come the end of the season. I dont think there is a lot more than can be asked at this moment in time.




Your own figures for this year show a £2.6m profit in 2016/17 before transfers, and according to the Transfermarkt figures you mention our net spend this year was £1.7m. And from that you have us "mighty close" to a £13m deficit?!

With maths like that who needs Grandad's posts for a laugh.

Anyway, we've been back and forth on this. If you really believe what you've written (which I doubt) ask the club at the next FST meeting. See what the answer is.

this where we differ.... I'm looking at the whole running of the club, and not just FFP.there are other costs apart from wages so that profit soon disappears Also if you add the Martin bought figure you get more of a loss.

The Rock

Bigger picture, the books are basically balanced at this point. We weren't going to do much better this transfer window. I didn't think we'd actually bring in more than one player after the Ross sale, as we've been conditioned to believe that Khan and the board lie to the fans. SJ had to publicly plead to have the club sign players. I am delighted beyond belief.