Here's a question for you about analysing football performance !

[bill taylors apprentice]

Before I get to the point I appreciate there are probably different systems and ways of collating the information etc etc.

You have the player analysis when looking to recruit new players and then I assume information is made available for the coaching staff to analyse and improve the performance of both individuals and the team and finally look at the oppositions strengths and weakness's.

If I have understood things right a players name is added to a list by either the coaching, scouting or research staff and at some point his "Data" will be researched to decide if he will be a targeted for purchase.

So! After yesterdays announcements regarding "Football Operation's" can anyone give me a better idea of what the club is analysing once the interest of a name on a list is triggered?

What are they looking for and what information is in the report, before its offered to those who make the decision to pursue the player or not?

Anyone Know?

[justinfromga]

Before I get to the point I appreciate there are probably different systems and ways of collating the information etc etc.

You have the player analysis when looking to recruit new players and then I assume information is made available for the coaching staff to analyse and improve the performance of both individuals and the team and finally look at the oppositions strengths and weakness's.

If I have understood things right a players name is added to a list by either the coaching, scouting or research staff and at some point his "Data" will be researched to decide if he will be a targeted for purchase.

So! After yesterdays announcements regarding "Football Operation's" can anyone give me a better idea of what the club is analysing once the interest of a name on a list is triggered?

What are they looking for and what information is in the report, before its offered to those who make the decision to pursue the player or not?

Anyone Know?

I am guessing but I would imagine both side speak to the manager first about what type of player he wants.  Take Central Defense for example.  It seems to me SJ does not want anything to do with an old fashioned, strong man who lumps it forward central defender.  So there is no use in either scouting or analytics suggesting one.

As for the analytic side--I said this in the summer and maintain it--their role is primarily in placing a value on players.  Just because a player, his current club, or his agent think he is worth £40,000,000 as a transfer and £100,000 a week doesn't mean that's what we value him at.  The main goal of statistical analysis in all sports is to ensure the club pays the correct price for each player.  It's probably a large reason we haven't seen Fulham sign a player like Keane or Berbatov since the window closed.  You want to pay players for what they do for you, not for someone else.

[bill taylors apprentice]

Thanks for that.

I always assumed that if "stats" were the holy grail and had to confirm what traditional scouting methods showed before any further involvement it would be along the lines of the following........

If you were looking for a wide attacking player you would look at the extensive data that seems to be available to measure his pace, his ability to cross the ball past the first defender etc etc his tracking back to help the FB not to mention his pass completion, shots to goal ratio, interceptions and a multitude of other stats.

Otherwise you end up with a on trick pony like Pringle or a youngster who seems to have the tools but fails to deliver such as Kaca!

Of course the finances are important e.g. he may be within our price range but his wages will be higher than we like and there are reasons why his sell on value is poor.

But I assumed they look deep into his ability to improve the team technically by analysing his match stats e.g. its pointless having the fastest player in the league if the stats show goals rarely come from his crosses  as well as his family, character and financial checks?

[justinfromga]

Thanks for that.

I always assumed that if "stats" were the holy grail and had to confirm what traditional scouting methods showed before any further involvement it would be along the lines of the following........

If you were looking for a wide attacking player you would look at the extensive data that seems to be available to measure his pace, his ability to cross the ball past the first defender etc etc his tracking back to help the FB not to mention his pass completion, shots to goal ratio, interceptions and a multitude of other stats.

Otherwise you end up with a on trick pony like Pringle or a youngster who seems to have the tools but fails to deliver such as Kaca!

Of course the finances are important e.g. he may be within our price range but his wages will be higher than we like and there are reasons why his sell on value is poor.

But I assumed they look deep into his ability to improve the team technically by analysing his match stats e.g. its pointless having the fastest player in the league if the stats show goals rarely come from his crosses  as well as his family, character and financial checks?

That's precisely the point.  The question that needs to be asked of Kline is what statistics is he looking at to determine the players value and ability.  A statistical approach always works if used correctly.  If he's looking at bad states (players top end speed, shot power, etc) then they are useless.  The stats build on top of each other creating the model of the player for each position.

Sorry to Americanize this but in baseball there is a fantastic stat called Wins Above Replacement (W.A.R.).  Each player is worth a certain number of wins above and beyond replacement level.  When adding up a teams projected WAR total a front office can project how many games they will win and how many games the teams around them will win.  I am not sure if there is a stat for football like this (Points Above Replacement?) but I'd imagine Kline is trying to use something that gets to that level.  Results are what matters at the end of the day.  You can have all the flash in the world but if there are major holes in a players overall game they are useless.  It is likely a large reason why the club was so fine with selling Ross and why the club is better today for it.

[HamsterWheel]

I assume that they use the stats to decide if a player fits in with the way the manager wants them to play. So for Fulham they have to be pretty mobile players capable of putting more of a shift in than average Championship players. So they can cope with our possession type of football.

But that don't explain why we got Sigurdsson.....

[justinfromga]

I assume that they use the stats to decide if a player fits in with the way the manager wants them to play. So for Fulham they have to be pretty mobile players capable of putting more of a shift in than average Championship players. So they can cope with our possession type of football.

But that don't explain why we got Sigurdsson.....

In the championship there will always be matches where you need a hulking central defender.  That's what Sig offers in theory.  The fact is we'really not going to sign a physical central defender who also plays well with the ball at his feet.  Those players play in the Premier League.  The most we can ask is to have a physical presence in the squad and on the match days when the manager deems it appropriate he plays.

Obvisouly things haven't worked out with Sig.  My issue more than anything is the money we put in for him, a 30 yr old central defender.  Hes on the downhill side of his career at this point and it's hard to argue his signing wasn't fueled largely in part by the game against England.  There are always misses...it appears to me he's one of only two from this summer.

[bill taylors apprentice]

I assume that they use the stats to decide if a player fits in with the way the manager wants them to play. So for Fulham they have to be pretty mobile players capable of putting more of a shift in than average Championship players. So they can cope with our possession type of football.

But that don't explain why we got Sigurdsson.....

In the championship there will always be matches where you need a hulking central defender.  That's what Sig offers in theory.  The fact is we'really not going to sign a physical central defender who also plays well with the ball at his feet.  Those players play in the Premier League.  The most we can ask is to have a physical presence in the squad and on the match days when the manager deems it appropriate he plays.

Obvisouly things haven't worked out with Sig.  My issue more than anything is the money we put in for him, a 30 yr old central defender.  Hes on the downhill side of his career at this point and it's hard to argue his signing wasn't fueled largely in part by the game against England.  There are always misses...it appears to me he's one of only two from this summer.

I get what your saying but if you've seen Sigurdsson live you will know he is neither a hulk of a CB or a physical presence !
But he was probably a last minute option.