3 points from three games, unbeaten

[Twig]

Stopped reading when you said Woodrow is the answer. So clearly a WUM.

:plus one:

[hovewhite]

Dh21 thats my take off the 3 same games last season 2 pionts with likes of TC
This season 3 pionts so were ahead of the game.

[grandad]

Nose gets right up my nose.
Always posting negative & provocative topics. Always slagging off the owners. All for his own ego. From now on I will not read any more from him. I prefer to read sensible posts where one can have a sensible debate.

Woodrow!!!! For goodness sake.

[toshes mate]

What a state....Indeed, nose.

Let me help this along with a summary of what I seem to have missed for the past six weeks or so.

Jokanovic confirms he has no part in the transfer operation (buying or selling) as he has done so many times before and is then criticised on here for daring to criticise said operation for selling and buying failures yet again.  So much for the 'two box system' this forum's faithful have oft regaled us with.  We are lucky Jokanovic is enough of a professional not to quit but good luck to him for calling a spade a spade and expecting more from his overpaid and overrated back room executives.  It's a pity there isn't be a little more honesty and professionalism in the higher echelons of Craven Cottage.

Fact - Our current form will not guarantee us the necessary fifty points to secure survival in the Championship, but, hey, not to worry, because the signings we needed back in Summer 2016 are on their way any day now, any month now, any year now, any decade now, any millennium now......   Do you think we could resuscitate a few legends of the past just to make the squad numbers up because, all things considered, the team are playing really well and our leading goalscorer (and possibly best outfield player so far) just broke his leg?  What's that you say ? – we still need strikers, midfield and defensive cover, and Khan Jnr has that covered, honest he has.

Last season I was one of the few optimistic people who said we would run for promotion from the very start.  I even talked up our chances after the poor results in the period September through October.   This season I am a little less optimistic about promotion because, as nose says, our squad is way short on numbers in crucial positions like defence, midfield and attackers in a way that it wasn't last season and that, Friends of Fulham, is why.  Sure there are promising players but they take time to bed in, time that can play havoc on your chances of winning anything.  Did we learn nothing from last term?

We shouldn't have to wait for our recruiters to sign decent players and I'd like to know why they cannot do better than they have been and are doing?  No excuses recruitment department because Jokanovic, his staff and players, are solely judged upon results.

I truly hope Jokanovic works the same miracle as before because he seems to be one of the few people, other than nose on here, who knows who to pick a fight with and how to fight. 

You are not alone, nose.   Other can be as complacent as they want to be but you won't catch me being one of them.

[Lighthouse]

As somebody who agrees about the squad and said so from day one. I can't help but think that even with new signings I would have been fairly proud of our performances in the first three matches. A new keeper that played like Button would be hailed as a keeper we have needed for years. His sudden command of his area and distribution have been great most of the time. Had we bought a defender like Ream or Odoi and we would be saying what a difference it makes. We have bought a forward and he has played well enough when he has appeared.

Despite feeling frustrated about the problems we have in the squad and the problems we now have with injury. I can't help but feel very pleased with the way we have played so far this season against frankly sides who would all expect to be top 6 at the end of the season. 

[MJG]

A lot in there Tosh but on one point please explain how we are shorter in midfield than last season?

[The Enclosurite]

3 from 3 is not a disaster but I can't help feel it should be at least 5 from 3 as we should've finished off Norwich when we had the first half pressure piled on them.  Two tough aways so can't fault a point in either of them but it does make this Saturday a (kinda) must-win now if we want to start building a bit of positive momentum.

I really hope the stat man is working overtime number crunching at the moment because we need some strong reinforcements to our dwindling squad asap.   049:gif

[toshes mate]

A lot in there Tosh but on one point please explain how we are shorter in midfield than last season?

Hi, MJG.  Good to see you back, even minus the statistics.

You never standstill in football and I just believe we needed a Championship experienced defensive midfield workhorse who could give McDonald some respite and offer an alternative style especially as we have lost Malone and we leaked a lot of goals from attacks on our left flank last term.   Cisse, Norwood, and Edun may prove sufficient but I was disappointed not to see an automatic replacement lined up fro Parker's retirement which should have been anticipated.  I believe the sale of Malone was a big mistake.

[MJG]

A lot in there Tosh but on one point please explain how we are shorter in midfield than last season?

Hi, MJG.  Good to see you back, even minus the statistics.

They will be back around the ten game mark, If people want them back.

[Deeping_white]

A lot in there Tosh but on one point please explain how we are shorter in midfield than last season?

Hi, MJG.  Good to see you back, even minus the statistics.

You never standstill in football and I just believe we needed a Championship experienced defensive midfield workhorse who could give McDonald some respite and offer an alternative style especially as we have lost Malone and we leaked a lot of goals from attacks on our left flank last term.   Cisse, Norwood, and Edun may prove sufficient but I was disappointed not to see an automatic replacement lined up fro Parker's retirement which should have been anticipated.  I believe the sale of Malone was a big mistake.

Cisse is the replacement for Parker and he's an upgrade from what I can see as for starters he's able to pass the ball more than 5 yards unlike parker who defined "keeping it simple". Norwood has also show himself to be more than adequate as a backup for TC and Edun has also shown over the summer why he should be in the first team, so our midfield is way better when you consider we only had 4 CM's last year, and one of those couldn't play 90 minutes.

[Keynsham]

A lot in there Tosh but on one point please explain how we are shorter in midfield than last season?

Hi, MJG.  Good to see you back, even minus the statistics.

They will be back around the ten game mark, If people want them back.

I for one, certainly do.

[epsomraver]

Steady start.  Unbeaten despite injuries and cards to key  players.  Playing good football.  Strong signs of players coming in.  Team spirit is great. Kept our key players. Cause for optimism.

STOP TALKING SENSE, WE ARE DOOMED !!!!

[epsomraver]

It's not a case of having the glass half full. It's called being realistic. If we had just played QPR, Burton and Bolton then I'd agree. But we have a tough start to the season, already we are experiencing a bad injury list something that we were very fortunate with last seaosn. Against Norwich we had no Kmac and frustratingly were minutes away from a win, did we play badly? No. It was a carbon copy of last season so is it lack of signings or just the way Jokanovic will always have us playing?

Norwood and Ciise are proving to be massive signings. A massive improvement on no cover and Parker sitting on the bench. Stop worrying about what other clubs are doing, let's revisit this in December when clubs bubbles have burst. Why not compare us to Ipswich who've won 3 out of 3 and spent hardly anything or Villa who are 2nd bottom and spent loads like Wolves? Conveniently you refer to Wolves the club who've started well and spent the most. Spending money proves f*** all in this league, if you do it right it obviously can help but Brighton and Huddersfield weren't amongst the top spenders. The season before Bournemouth weren't either. It's about signing the right players and if that means waiting until they are available in the last week of the window so be it.

Sky sports news said 87 signings were made in the prem before last season started and in the 2/3 weeks after the first game there were a further 54 signings made. So it's not Fulham, it's all clubs and that's in the prem where they have even more money to throw at it.

We played 90 mins against the side the players would have wanted to beat most this season. A personal vendetta to get revenge. After 26secs that game plan went out the window and it was a case of being ugly and grinding out a point as a team. To fight back in that game to draw showed me how much we have grown as a team. We could easily have lost our heads and gone chasing the game but no, the players showed discipline to put their personal temptation to "go for it"  aside and instead used a sensible practical approach. How is that a point to be criticised?

How is a point away to Leeds a point to moan about? Why are your expectations unrealistic just to justify your criticism of the club? Again, no Kalas, no Cairney the captain, we lost Piazon. Ream playing with a facial injury the whole game. The last 2 away games have shown we aren't just a good footballing Team, we are also up for the fight. If we compare with last seaaon, we drew at home to Norwich, drew away to Leeds and lost to Reading away. So technically we are a point up on what last season's results suggest. That might be a fairer way of looking at it and seeing if we are improving. 

It's not been perfect but we've had a tough start. I would agree we need a good left back, a good goalscorer and a centre half. After the way Odoi has played id say that centre half is more for a good backup to Ream now rather than a 'must' starter. Thats 3 players in 2 weeks, not impossible and we will do it. Woodrow is not good enough and I'll be very worried if we opt to give him a go instead of a top new signing (hopefully coming in to lead the line). The thing that's going to make this a long season is reading so much negativity. I was constantly ranting and moaning at people who were positive when Magath was in charge because there was something to moan about. Only 3 teams can go up and it's fine margins so I prefer now to enjoy the ride, enjoy the football and TRY although it's becoming more and more difficult to enjoy reading friends of fulham.

Here's to another draw Saturday. I can't wait.  :wine:

Good post Danny, cannot argue against that, If you switch this to Huddersfield playing Man C Man U and Spurs firs three games in prem and lose all three, is that a disaster? no of course not, as you say we have had a really tough start and unbeaten is a reason to be proud of , not moaned at.

[toshes mate]

By this stage last season, even without a nominal, recognised striker and playing three good sides, we had seven points and two wins.  I rest my case.

[VicHalomsLovechild]

By this stage last season, even without a nominal, recognised striker and playing three good sides, we had seven points and two wins.  I rest my case.

And at this stage last season how many points did Newcastle have?

[Arthur]

Fact - Our current form will not guarantee us the necessary fifty points to secure survival in the Championship,

As MJG says, there is a lot in your post. This is a terribly weak argument.

There are nine other clubs whose current form will not get them to 50 points. On current form, therefore, logic dictates that we will finish exactly where we are now - 15th. You and I both know, however, that there is no likelihood of ten clubs failing to reach the 50-point mark.

If you think that we will fail to secure 50 points this season, then say so. If not, to talk in terms of a three-match point-a-game run as a measure of impending relegation is, at best, a spurious point and, at worse, an attempt to exaggerate the extent to which we are ill-equipped this season.

[toshes mate]

I always say what I want to say and not what you want me to say or what you write into what  have said.  Three points from three games is not good form but let's look at the mitigating circumstances since that is what some like to do. 

a)  Against Norwich, particularly in the first half hour, we dominated but we didn't score.  Even after the own goal we failed to capitalise on some really good play.  Norwich scored an equaliser because we didn't score a second goal.

b) Reading.  The Kalas red card was unfortunate, particularly after the handball in the play-off match, for him but when I saw it my first thought was 'red card' because, with the quality of refereeing these days and our 'luck' we seem to get punished harshly when other teams seem to get away with much worse.  We fought hard enough and deserved the draw.  I thought it was a good performance.

c) Leeds.  As against Norwich we dominated in patches, especially first half, but couldn't score a goal.  Piazon was sorely missed after he broke his leg.

Now progress that form through the season.  Good performances, not scoring goals, and see where it leads.

I defend nose's original post because he makes salient points about where we are, what we lack, and, unlike last season I am not seeing silver linings anywhere because the team is struggling to get results.   I really do hope Jokanovic turns it around with or without the anticipated signings but if we don't score goals from all over the pitch then we are not going to see what happened from December to May repeat itself.   And just to make myself very clear I am not criticising the players who are doing their best, it is just that my gut feeling is that their best isn't going to be good enough and Jokanovic needs support from the recruitment team now, not next week or end of month, now. 

[JoelH5]

It's not a case of having the glass half full. It's called being realistic. If we had just played QPR, Burton and Bolton then I'd agree. But we have a tough start to the season, already we are experiencing a bad injury list something that we were very fortunate with last seaosn. Against Norwich we had no Kmac and frustratingly were minutes away from a win, did we play badly? No. It was a carbon copy of last season so is it lack of signings or just the way Jokanovic will always have us playing?

Norwood and Ciise are proving to be massive signings. A massive improvement on no cover and Parker sitting on the bench. Stop worrying about what other clubs are doing, let's revisit this in December when clubs bubbles have burst. Why not compare us to Ipswich who've won 3 out of 3 and spent hardly anything or Villa who are 2nd bottom and spent loads like Wolves? Conveniently you refer to Wolves the club who've started well and spent the most. Spending money proves f*** all in this league, if you do it right it obviously can help but Brighton and Huddersfield weren't amongst the top spenders. The season before Bournemouth weren't either. It's about signing the right players and if that means waiting until they are available in the last week of the window so be it.

Sky sports news said 87 signings were made in the prem before last season started and in the 2/3 weeks after the first game there were a further 54 signings made. So it's not Fulham, it's all clubs and that's in the prem where they have even more money to throw at it.

We played 90 mins against the side the players would have wanted to beat most this season. A personal vendetta to get revenge. After 26secs that game plan went out the window and it was a case of being ugly and grinding out a point as a team. To fight back in that game to draw showed me how much we have grown as a team. We could easily have lost our heads and gone chasing the game but no, the players showed discipline to put their personal temptation to "go for it"  aside and instead used a sensible practical approach. How is that a point to be criticised?

How is a point away to Leeds a point to moan about? Why are your expectations unrealistic just to justify your criticism of the club? Again, no Kalas, no Cairney the captain, we lost Piazon. Ream playing with a facial injury the whole game. The last 2 away games have shown we aren't just a good footballing Team, we are also up for the fight. If we compare with last seaaon, we drew at home to Norwich, drew away to Leeds and lost to Reading away. So technically we are a point up on what last season's results suggest. That might be a fairer way of looking at it and seeing if we are improving. 

It's not been perfect but we've had a tough start. I would agree we need a good left back, a good goalscorer and a centre half. After the way Odoi has played id say that centre half is more for a good backup to Ream now rather than a 'must' starter. Thats 3 players in 2 weeks, not impossible and we will do it. Woodrow is not good enough and I'll be very worried if we opt to give him a go instead of a top new signing (hopefully coming in to lead the line). The thing that's going to make this a long season is reading so much negativity. I was constantly ranting and moaning at people who were positive when Magath was in charge because there was something to moan about. Only 3 teams can go up and it's fine margins so I prefer now to enjoy the ride, enjoy the football and TRY although it's becoming more and more difficult to enjoy reading friends of fulham.

Here's to another draw Saturday. I can't wait.  :wine:

Great post. I am normally quite pessimistic but I am happy with our start.

The games we have played will be some of the hardest we have all season. We've been able to get them out of the way early doors.

Sure we have dropped points by not winning these games but so have our opponents, who are also challenging for promotion.

Leeds drew at home (better result for us)
Reading drew at home (better result for us...)

We still get the chance to play them at home.

Be realistic.. this is actually a pretty good start and that's not even taking into account the injuries we have!

COYW!!!!!!!

[nose]

well I have to say I am stunned
for so many of you to continually read my posts as you want rather than what I am trying to say (I am not concise and cannot help that).

we had three brilliant battling performances and got three points
as abfg says, about the same as we were last season.

The management claimed they were ambitious and all that
Three times we have heard joca moaning bout transfers, more measured than last year but still more of the same

three points from three winable games, but the lack of investment is doing for us now, as predicted by so many of us.

if you really think this is good, then you clearly do not understand what ambition, as espoused by TK implies. I took his words at face value and was enthused, he was going to right the errors from before, perhaps they had learned. But they have not.

Brilliant team ethic and organisation and pretty football, but it's time to kick on and improve. What is so difficult about that. Three seasons ago these three points would have been a triumph, now they are not, not if we think promotion is the aim.

That is what i am talking about, is promotion the aim? It seems to me the owners are not doing what is necesary, not showing ambition. That is what the post is about.

Under the circumstances the team have been brilliant, I will always think  tweak here or there could have improved things, but that is something else. I see these three games as opoortunities lost to pick up points IF we had a goalscorer IF we had cover at center back although adoi was brilliant by all accounts and IF we generally had a bit more quality.
What is so difficcult about that. I am not negative at all, I am being optimistic we can still do it, I want success but see the chance being squandered, that is what the OP is about.

Regarding woodrow, i was not having a go at the manager. he does not rate him, so why have him on the bench. But stats do say his goals per minute on the field ratio are the best at the club, we needed a goal and he was there.

I al;so worry as things stand cairney may be reviewing the situation, I hope not.

[Arthur]

I always say what I want to say and not what you want me to say or what you write into what  have said.

My point is straightforward: that the statistical argument you used to claim that relegation is on the cards is terribly weak. I stated it at the outset of my initial post.

I have no desire for you to say anything particular. Suspecting that you don't believe that relegation is that likely, I merely speculated as to the value of making a high-profile point (heralded with the word 'Fact', no less) of something you don't think will happen.

I defend nose's original post because he makes salient points about where we are, what we lack, and, unlike last season I am not seeing silver linings anywhere because the team is struggling to get results.   I really do hope Jokanovic turns it around with or without the anticipated signings but if we don't score goals from all over the pitch then we are not going to see what happened from December to May repeat itself.   And just to make myself very clear I am not criticising the players who are doing their best, it is just that my gut feeling is that their best isn't going to be good enough and Jokanovic needs support from the recruitment team now, not next week or end of month, now. 

Thank you for expanding upon the reasons why you concur with nose. Having read these, I see a number of points that have their merits.