QPR lose arbitration claims against fine for breaching the EFL's FFP

[Baszab]

Administration is very unfair on the supporters - imagine how we would feel if FFC was bust up - we would still be loyal supporters - what happened to Portsmouth was a disgrace but their huge fan base really lost out - same as Glasgow Rangers and others  -- it is the owners and directors who should take the brunt of the punishment not the fans - I genuinely feel sorry for (some of) QPR fans if they are banished

[FFCpmd]

They're certainly not happy......

http://www.wearetherangersboys.com/forum/showthread.php?197056-FFP-latest

[Marcel_Gecov]

Reading that forum, I actually - dare I say it - feel sorry for them. There's a sense of the inevitable and the quicker they are taken behind the shed the better for all concerned so fans can move on. The more interesting question IMO is whether the club has to pay the fine or the board.

[toshes mate]

From 2011 7 clubs in England have gone into administration compared to   34 in the previous decade.
Like it or not the principles of FFP that have filtered down the League's has stopped club having as many issues as previously.

I suspect the making of an example of a football club that had flagrantly broken the rules is (and always has been) the best way to enforce those rules however inadequate they may be.  I suspect it will not stop others from attempting to 'get away with it' especially if any 'appeal' seems to mitigate the punishment.  Enforcement of the rules should put a club as it exists now out of business and make it do a 'Glasgow Rangers' if it wants to return, but I guess any offender has a right to appeal until the final curtain is drawn on the matter.   

[filham]

Today's Telegraph shows how Rangers spent this money, the wage bill was enormous for a Championship club. Zamora was earning £75k per week and Andy Johnson was on a mere £40k per week. Both were past their best at the time.

[Riversider]

What I don't understand is this, why haven't the Football League imposed  a fine AND an embargo?
Why should they still be able to sign players in January when a club like Bolton Wanderers is under an embargo ?
We've had an embargo as have Blackburn and Forest so why not them ?

[MJG]

What I don't understand is this, why haven't the Football League imposed  a fine AND an embargo?
Why should they still be able to sign players in January when a club like Bolton Wanderers is under an embargo ?
We've had an embargo as have Blackburn and Forest so why not them ?

Because the rules were:
Go up and fail its a fine and no embargo.
Stay down and fail its an embargo and no fine.

There was no rule to fine and embargo

[toshes mate]

Today's Telegraph shows how Rangers spent this money, the wage bill was enormous for a Championship club. Zamora was earning £75k per week and Andy Johnson was on a mere £40k per week. Both were past their best at the time.

That article is a very interesting read especially the quote from EFL CEO Shaun Harvey that 'the EFL would work with their valued member club' on the question of placing QPR in jeopardy once again if the fine results in a further loss exceeding FFP rules.   This really questions the basis upon which FFP rules have been drawn up no matter how much distaste we may have for those who break the rules at will.   It really muddies the waters rather than clearing them.

[Riversider]

What I don't understand is this, why haven't the Football League imposed  a fine AND an embargo?
Why should they still be able to sign players in January when a club like Bolton Wanderers is under an embargo ?
We've had an embargo as have Blackburn and Forest so why not them ?

Because the rules were:
Go up and fail its a fine and no embargo.
Stay down and fail its an embargo and no fine.

There was no rule to fine and embargo

Oh ok I didn't realise that, so in a way they've got an advantage over Bolton for the rest of this season as they can bring players in during January, which seems a bit unfair.

[MJG]

What I don't understand is this, why haven't the Football League imposed  a fine AND an embargo?
Why should they still be able to sign players in January when a club like Bolton Wanderers is under an embargo ?
We've had an embargo as have Blackburn and Forest so why not them ?

Because the rules were:
Go up and fail its a fine and no embargo.
Stay down and fail its an embargo and no fine.

There was no rule to fine and embargo

Oh ok I didn't realise that, so in a way they've got an advantage over Bolton for the rest of this season as they can bring players in during January, which seems a bit unfair.

Totally. If you are spending too much the main thing a club should do is stop spending. So a ban on transfers and then wage cap would be the basis of my sanctions for these type of rules.

[Mike the White]

Whatever your opinions, the fact is you have some sympathy for QPR fans.  Like us they are loyal supporters who just happen to follow the team of choice and they are ripped off by the owners and management.  I remember when we nearly folded some years ago we got the support of other clubs' fans.  So genuinely hope they sort it out and remain in the championship

[Riversider]

Whatever your opinions, the fact is you have some sympathy for QPR fans.  Like us they are loyal supporters who just happen to follow the team of choice and they are ripped off by the owners and management.  I remember when we nearly folded some years ago we got the support of other clubs' fans.  So genuinely hope they sort it out and remain in the championship

Must be joking, you sound like the type of supporter that would wear a half and half scarf !
If this was Fulham facing this fine their supporters would be turning up at The Cottage in March ready to sing "Flats on The Cottage, they're building flats on The Cottage" and good luck to them because that's what football rivalry is all about.

[Chesh]

One thing that no-one appears to have mentioned yet - surely QPR should have kept back some of the huge wedge they got for getting into the Premier League, even if they got it piecemeal.

After all, the gamble was 'if we get promoted it will have been worth it' - well, maybe so, but they always knew the fine would have to be paid if they wanted to come back into the Championship, and so should have kept some back.

Don't like to see other clubs go the wall, but this is a case of wanting their cake and eating it.

Therefore, little sympathy, unless the losses were utterly unavoidable from their previous relegation, and otherwise imo they are just trying to wing it.

The fans I do feel sorry for, even though they're Rangers, but the bleating about the 'unfairness of it all', and blaming the EFL is wide of the mark  - look no further than Tony Fernandes and his naive dealings ...

[Chesh]

Today's Telegraph shows how Rangers spent this money, the wage bill was enormous for a Championship club. Zamora was earning £75k per week and Andy Johnson was on a mere £40k per week. Both were past their best at the time.

That article is a very interesting read especially the quote from EFL CEO Shaun Harvey that 'the EFL would work with their valued member club' on the question of placing QPR in jeopardy once again if the fine results in a further loss exceeding FFP rules.   This really questions the basis upon which FFP rules have been drawn up no matter how much distaste we may have for those who break the rules at will.   It really muddies the waters rather than clearing them.

I would guess that any fine would go down in the P/L account as an 'exceptional' or 'extraordinary' item, which may then be outside the any trading loss that is actually taken into account for FFP? Don't know - just summising, but I think this would be a fair solution.

I think there should be a penalty for the continued fruitless appeals though, as this has been basically taking the p***. I reckon an embargo would be fair enough to serve as a warning to others to just take their medicine...

[MJG]

A long read here but well worth it from Rangers pov.
Of course usual suspects saying spend everything on going up won't bother but hey go.
https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/news/46804

[Chutney]

A long read here but well worth it from Rangers pov.
Of course usual suspects saying spend everything on going up won't bother but hey go.
https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/news/46804

An interesting read, certainly some good reflections, but it doesn't reflect the reality that other clubs have spent and stayed up and will therefore not be punished, and in that case it is totally worth it to do so. Watford and Bournemouth being two prime examples. Its a gamble certainly, but if managed correctly pays huge dividends. QPR are shoddily run, we are in no way comparable to them, even with our absentee owner we seem to be way more organised than they have ever been. Wolves this season are giving it a go, time will tell how that ends for them.

[Riversider]

Aside from all this, does anybody know how their 40,000 all seater stadium is coming along ?
😉

[Marcel_Gecov]

A long read here but well worth it from Rangers pov.
Of course usual suspects saying spend everything on going up won't bother but hey go.
https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/news/46804

Interesting the author seems confident QPR will appeal and drag this out for another two years. He rationalises it in the passage below, but I'd be interested to know if he's a lawyer (unlikely) or just a football fan speculating (likely). As I said before it's hard to appeal arbitration; a key prerequisite for going to arbitration is you agree you'll accept the arbitrators' decision!


"QPR will appeal through the courts on the grounds of proportionality. Simply put, you cannot legally impose fines on a business that threaten the existence of the business itself. So you can fine HSBC £1.4bn because it can afford it, but you can't fine the local Spar Shop the same amount for the same offence because that would put the business under. A fine of £58m for a business of QPR's current turnover, the club will argue, is disproportionate."

Thanks Statto, i didn't realise you entered arbitration having had to agree that. I think there will be a deal done (the equivalent of settling out of court) and the fine will be far lower perhaps with a ban on transfers this winter and next summer and a slap on the wrist. Hopefully this will still lead to the sale of the best players and relegation. 

[mrmicawbers]

Feel sorry for a few QPR supporting pals.However the Club knew the Rules and their consequences and chose to ignore them. They must now pay the price.Only seems fair. 096.gig

[BestOfBrede]

Agree that QPR (owners/directors) knew the rules and flaunted them, but isn't this ffp rubbish supposed to be there to save clubs from going bust?
My point is, the owners tried to be clever/sly and get away with it and so shouldn't it be them that pays rather than the Club(fans)?

We took our punishment and got on with it, which we could say delayed any progression. Therefore, all teams should also take their punishment and the QPR owners did not.
But to put the club in danger of going bankrupt and being no more seems totally against the reason ffp Was designed in the first place?

I dislike them enormously and agree that many of their fans would be in their element if it was us, but us smaller clubs will be wiped out if we don't stick together!

I think qpr should be fined (reasonable) and certainly have a recruitment ban, which should be reasonably harsh due to their ridiculous delay tactics, but not to the extent of making them bankrupt.