Honestly... what do we think of Slav now?

[Brawn]

By my reckoning the journey from Brighton Station to Putney Bridge Station is about seventy minutes long (Brighton-Clapham Junction-Wimbledon-Putney Bridge).  A travel card to cover the whole journey would cost about £20.  Add the cost of your seat.  Really want to enjoy Craven Cottage and Fulham football at its best then save up your money and have a good day out in London too.  If FFC win then you get a bonus, and if you don't you can always repeat until they do.

I prefer Brighton-Victoria-Hammersmith. Not all trains stop at Clapham Junction. Additionally think how much that costs for the entire season, and I'd rather spend that money (and I suspect this won't wash well) on cricket. In fact, I do: my season ticket for Surrey is a fraction of what it would cost for Fulham. I think that's a different issue altogether. I can't do Saturday as I've got prior committments. And after that, I'm moving back to Brighton.

Whilst I can't remember exactly how many games I've been to per season, I was making about 10-15 before moving to Brighton.

[EN1 FFC]

Jokanovic is coach and his style is possession football. Lots of opposition managers seem to have been able to counter this style this season, and has left us with slow build up of possession leading to facing packed defences who we can't break down and there is no end product for the amount of possession. Our defence is still vulnerable to counter attacks.
Of the 8 defenders in the squad Jokanovic has only really used 5 in the 4 positions leaving Soares, Madl & Djalo out of the squad.
Of the 8 midfielders in the squad he has only played really 5 leaving out Cisse, Mollo & Graham.
He's tried to use various players as forwards, none out of the present 5 would you class as a main striker more attacking midfield.
Was that the requirement of Jokanovic.
Except for Sessegnon he really hasn't taken a gamble on bringing through the younger players who's form has been better than the players brought in during the summer.
Also during the time Jokanovic has been coach we have lost a lot of good younger players (whether this is his fault I don't know) who could potentially have been far better than the players brought in, but he hasn't used them often in this or previous seasons.

I think there is a difference in the situation of Jol & Jokanovic.
Jokanovic is a Head Coach and only has a say in the type of player he wants and what position, I don't think there are many if any players he has brought to the club through his reputation or contacts.
On the other hand Jol was the manager, he had some say in which players were brought into the club. It's documented by Berbatov that he came to Fulham because of Jol. There are others (some good some bad) who we got because of Jol's reputation and contacts. One we didn't get was Gignac who said he really wanted to sign for Jol, (the signing fell through because Marseilles didn't get his replacement in on dead line day) Gignac even had his agent searching for a replacement.

[filham]

Well anyone posting  anti Jocanovic thoughts right now is up against it. For some reason Jocanovic realised a lot of support on this board immediately he replaced Kit and most of the fans stood by him through times when results and performances were poor and no better than Kit's.
For most of the time he has been with us I have been sitting on the fence waiting for good results to take us into a promotion challenge . Of course in the second half of last season I just had to come down into Jocanovic's side as the football and results were magnificent. However, this season with some poor performances, questionable tactics and selections I have been back up on the fence.

It looks as if we may have turned a corner and there is hope of another top six placing so I am  holding off any judgement on Jocanovic until the end of the season.
Cannot accept any comparison between Jol and Jocanovic, they are so different.

Jocanovic has been with us two years now, it would be interesting to see his points per game record compared to Jol, Kit and Roy.

[flyingfish]

Its not in our human nature to imagine we are wrong but boy, this poster thinks he knows something, although he knows nothing!

I've learnt enough about Football to know I don't know it all, while this guy knows just enough to think he knows what he's talking about!

There is actually a term for this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect . Basically, one's level of knowledge is related to confidence. With a little bit of knowledge, confidence is high. As one learns more about a subject, even though knowledge is increasing, confidence drops. Essentially you learn more about what you don't know over time.

You see this all the time in physical activities - for example - with a little experience really think they are the dog's knob, when they frankly haven't a clue what they are doing and don't know what they don't know.

Also skills required for many jobs - the more experienced one is, the less confident they are that they know all the answers as they have a better wider understanding.

I can't believe I just posted about the Dunning-Kruger effect in a football forum.

I was talking to a couple of mates the other day and one used the DK effect to explain something, while no academic myself I found it an interesting subject.

In the case of this OP my view is he's putting forward his argument confidently but its based on his incorrect assessment !
I don't know enough about DK to say this is a classic case (possibly not) but thought some of the phrases my mate used where appropriate.

Ah ha! What you are experiencing here is the Baader-Meinhof effect!

[Brawn]

Jo[k]anovic has been with us two years now, it would be interesting to see his points per game record compared to Jol, Kit and Roy.

Ask and you shall get!

Including cup competitions and play-off games:

S Jokanovic: P108 W45 D30 L33 - PPG 1.53
K Symons: P64 W22 D17 L25 - PPG 1.30
M Jol: P113 W38 D28 L47 - PPG 1.26
R Hodgson: P128 W50 D32 L46 - PPG 1.42

I believe Slav is being carried by the players. Let's not forget he did worse than Kit with Kit's players in 2015-16.

[Holders]

Jo[k]anovic has been with us two years now, it would be interesting to see his points per game record compared to Jol, Kit and Roy.

Ask and you shall get!

Including cup competitions and play-off games:

S Jokanovic: P108 W45 D30 L33 - PPG 1.53
K Symons: P64 W22 D17 L25 - PPG 1.30
M Jol: P113 W38 D28 L47 - PPG 1.26
R Hodgson: P128 W50 D32 L46 - PPG 1.42

I believe Slav is being carried by the players. Let's not forget he did worse than Kit with Kit's players in 2015-16.

Interesting. I'd expect Fulham to achieve a higher PPG in "Div 2" than "Div 1" , given the club's resources compared to others in that division so RH comes out of this very well, along with SJ.

It would be interesting to know Tigana's stats, if you have them, Mr. Brawn!

[Brawn]

J Tigana: P145 W67 D37 L41 - PPG 1.64

[MJG]

I have taken out cup (and playoff games) and here are the league only figures


Hodgson  P95 - 121Pts  1.27
Hughes    P38 - 49 Pts   1.28
Jol            P89 - 105 Pts 1.17
Symons    P55 - 71 Pts   1.29
Joka         P95 - 146 Pts 1.53

[Lighthouse]

First of all our Coach has been very successful for half a season at Fulham. He took the team with the aid of the stats supported transfer policy to the play offs. But the problems we had during the season and have had since haven't changed. Lack of firepower since the loss of Dembele and Ross and very average defenders and keeper. His tactics HAVE changed but we are always vulnerable to the same type of opposition and type of long ball and pass and crosses. My thoughts on Slav haven't changed. I think he has improved the tactics and has done well but is massively overrated by many.

Jol on the other hand was overrated from day one. He was overrated at Spuds and at Fulham, he never made me confident in his ability.

[Holders]

I have taken out cup (and playoff games) and here are the league only figures


Hodgson  P95 - 121Pts  1.27
Hughes    P38 - 49 Pts   1.28
Jol            P89 - 105 Pts 1.17
Symons    P55 - 71 Pts   1.29
Joka         P95 - 146 Pts 1.53

That agrees with "gut feel" and RH's figure is affected by state of the team at the time he came in, Hughes inherited better. I expect Tigana would still top the list though.

[Holders]

First of all our Coach has been very successful for half a season at Fulham. He took the team with the aid of the stats supported transfer policy to the play offs. But the problems we had during the season and have had since haven't changed. Lack of firepower since the loss of Dembele and Ross and very average defenders and keeper. His tactics HAVE changed but we are always vulnerable to the same type of opposition and type of long ball and pass and crosses. My thoughts on Slav haven't changed. I think he has improved the tactics and has done well but is massively overrated by many.

Jol on the other hand was overrated from day one. He was overrated at Spuds and at Fulham, he never made me confident in his ability.

He wasn't the same without Hughton.

[Bassey the warrior]

This is a laughable post. Slav has done a great job under difficult circumstances. I've not always agreed with some of his selections and exclusions but the fact is we're still in the run for play offs, which is what we were aiming for.

[F(f)CUK]

Jokanovic plays a very risky form of football.  The flying wingback/fullbacks leave horrendous gaps at the back and put tremendous pressure on our centre backs.  As a result, our centre backs either appear to be saviours or lightweights.  They need speed, positional sense, excellent recovery abilities and then because we like to play out from the back, also be good in possession.  We have been very lucky in maintaining a healthy Kalas/Ream partnership, as over the long-term Odoi/Djalo/Madl would have been found out.  I would love a new central defender to improve what we have, but actually believe that we have to stick with our favoured two for the remainder of the season as they know the system and have adapted to it quickest.  This is, however, the key to our team set-up working.

The next thing that has to happen, is that we have to scare the opposition.  We have to encourage the opposition to play defensive minded football, as our fullbacks are defensively weaker than we would hope.  This allows our fullbacks to play further up the field and be on the front foot. 

Overall, when our system works and when teams allow us to play our game, we are likely to win and potentially comfortably.  However, the risks from good counterattacking teams are evident.  Overall I like the fact that Jokanovic likes us to be attack-minded and I am willing to accept that it won't always work and when that happens I am happy enough not to demand Jokanovic's head.  Imagine Tony Pullis with this team and thank our lucky stars.

[bog]

I have been supporting for 65 years and he is on the list of managers who I feel content with. There have been many who I have not been! One thing is that we now win a lot of away games and we never used to. 


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[toshes mate]

Jokanovic plays a very risky form of football.

Strangely enough I think the style SJ plays is intended to be low risk football.  High risk is low possession leading to high percentage yield from fewer chances.  SJ's strategy, at its best, yields high possession and high chance of outscoring opponents.  The key is always converting possession to chances you score from in either form.  Therefore the higher the possession the more chances and the more goals scored.  We have yet to see it at its best simply because inappropriate choices about recruitment and sale have made life more awkward for our coach than it needed to be.   It defies belief that he is unable to exercise a power of veto over both sales and incoming transfers that at least says you cannot sell without sensibly replacing first.  He has no such power of veto either way.

[Matt10]

I think this is going to just turn into a tactical debate. Counter-attack versus high possession. At the end of the day, it's all about how he's using each player in the positions to their full potential.

As long as he never puts Johansen in the false-9 again, we should be okay :) .

[filham]

This is a laughable post. Slav has done a great job under difficult circumstances. I've not always agreed with some of his selections and exclusions but the fact is we're still in the run for play offs, which is what we were aiming for.

No , this is a good post and covers the most important aspect of Fulham's prospects this season, that is Jocanovic.  He is interesting and very different to our previous managers.

The stats given above show that he could be on the verge of producing a great team and have now made me feel more confident about him. If we can get the three players he needs in this window then another top six finish is possible.

[toshes mate]

The stats given above show that he could be on the verge of producing a great team and have now made me feel more confident about him. If we can get the three players he needs in this window then another top six finish is possible.

Mmm, you need stats to help you?  You haven't been at the kline cakes have you?  :-)

[RaySmith]

It's all about stats of course, one particular stat-ie league table finishing places.

Last year Slav got us into the top 6, when it didn't seem that likely until almost  halfway through the season, and this year  he's overseen an upturn in our performances and   results, adversely  affected  earlier in the season by injuries and  new players  finding it hard to adapt, which once again sees us with a chance of  getting into the top  six.

If we get into the top 6 again that will surely be seen as great achievement, let alone if we actually go up, but let's see how this season pans out, and then  judge our manager.

[Whitesideup]

A couple of things:

1) "There's no risk attached to our passing. It's backwards and sideways rubbish. But it seems to be getting results."  Well, that in itself suggests it's not always "sideways or rubbish." And there have been some excellent games, away to Cardiff being the best example.

2) "The defending is increasingly haphazard too."    Er, 8 goals conceded in the last 8 games, increasingly haphazard? I think not.

Sorry, but I thought a lot of this post is simply misinformed at best, plain wrong in other regards. This may well be because you haven't seen enough of us this year. We have had a problem in the final third, I think that's true, and consequently our possession does not always lead to the number of goals we would hope for, but I am not sure that Joka is totally responsible for that - I don't know the extent to which signings have or haven't been made at his behest.