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Our defensive unit is currently shocking !

Started by Riversider, July 25, 2018, 11:00:12 AM

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GJB

Good point about Odoi's suspension - forgot that carried forward, also agree he's not a centre back good enough for the Prem and would provide good competition for Christie. Hopefully the Mawson rumours are true, meaning place at RCB will be filled soon.

My main point though was why people are immediately saying Le Marchand isn't a good enough Left Back on the forum - was wondering what evidence this was based on - is this because he's not good enough defensively, or as an attacking player, or is better suited in a different position (LCB)? Have people seen him at LB last season to categorically say he's not good enough? Not trying to prove people wrong, you may be right that he's not good enough. I just genuinely have never seen the player so can't comment at this stage.

@jolslover

Quote from: filham on July 25, 2018, 06:53:49 PM
At the moment our back four against Place looks like:-

                Christie         La Marchand     Ream      Sess.

Will that be capable of keeping Palace in check. for 90 minutes.

To be fair more likely to be Le Marchand at LB and Odoi CB.
I think if we get Mbabu and Lopez in our defence is already looking much better.
I assume we will bring in a left back at some stage as well.
STH H3

Riversider

Mawson and Smalling have both been made available by their clubs,
Those two added to our squad and my concerns suddenly ease,
Imagine those two with Mitrovic when we win a corner, for the first time in donkey's years we would have a genuine goal scoring threat,
Mawson and Smalling would bring that valuable Premier League experience with them to,
Would love to see it happen 👍🏻


Woolly Mammoth

Quote from: GJB on July 25, 2018, 07:44:06 PM
Good point about Odoi's suspension - forgot that carried forward, also agree he's not a centre back good enough for the Prem and would provide good competition for Christie. Hopefully the Mawson rumours are true, meaning place at RCB will be filled soon.

My main point though was why people are immediately saying Le Marchand isn't a good enough Left Back on the forum - was wondering what evidence this was based on - is this because he's not good enough defensively, or as an attacking player, or is better suited in a different position (LCB)? Have people seen him at LB last season to categorically say he's not good enough? Not trying to prove people wrong, you may be right that he's not good enough. I just genuinely have never seen the player so can't comment at this stage.

Agree with what you say. the issue for me is with regard to Le Marchand, is that square pegs in round holes will I imagine get found out in the Premier. He is generally a very decent centre back, and to be fair to him, playing left back will be a little detrimental for him.
Ok in an emergency, but that's all.
I could be wrong, but currently it should be Ream or Le Marchand plus one other top CB.
That's the way I see it, but no doubt the landscape will change over the course of the season, due to injuries etc.
We will need depth all round to stand our ground.
Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.

Woolly Mammoth

Quote from: Riversider on July 25, 2018, 08:30:23 PM
Mawson and Smalling have both been made available by their clubs,
Those two added to our squad and my concerns suddenly ease,
Imagine those two with Mitrovic when we win a corner, for the first time in donkey's years we would have a genuine goal scoring threat,
Mawson and Smalling would bring that valuable Premier League experience with them to,
Would love to see it happen 👍🏻

That could be mouth watering.
Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.

The Rock

Quote from: alfie on July 25, 2018, 03:38:26 PM
Quote from: The Rock on July 25, 2018, 03:19:35 PM
I'd argue we need 3 starting defenders on top of your fav pick of Le Machand, Ream, Odoi, and Christie.

They are all necessary to keep as squad players, but others are right on here in assuming we'll ship an average of 3 goals per match with our current back four.

They will get roasted to a burnt crisp.
You just never know they may turn out to be just fine

I'd take medium well in a heartbeat.


The Rock

As I re-read this thread, I'm not sure anyone knows who our current best 2 defenders are to add to the soon to be 2 big signings?

Odoi and Ream are great for fixing the holes, but they are not foundation material.

I blame SJ for getting them punching above their weight, and a he's done a proper job, but Man City will make it look like Brazil vs. the Faroe Islands. It will be embarrassing.

Milo

Quote from: The Rock on July 25, 2018, 11:14:59 PM
As I re-read this thread, I'm not sure anyone knows who our current best 2 defenders are to add to the soon to be 2 big signings?

Odoi and Ream are great for fixing the holes, but they are not foundation material.

I blame SJ for getting them punching above their weight, and a he's done a proper job, but Man City will make it look like Brazil vs. the Faroe Islands. It will be embarrassing.

I think Ream deserves a chance after being faultless last season. If he struggles with the pace of Prem we can sign a replacement in January.

General

Quote from: Milo on July 25, 2018, 11:21:46 PM
Quote from: The Rock on July 25, 2018, 11:14:59 PM
As I re-read this thread, I'm not sure anyone knows who our current best 2 defenders are to add to the soon to be 2 big signings?

Odoi and Ream are great for fixing the holes, but they are not foundation material.

I blame SJ for getting them punching above their weight, and a he's done a proper job, but Man City will make it look like Brazil vs. the Faroe Islands. It will be embarrassing.

I think Ream deserves a chance after being faultless last season. If he struggles with the pace of Prem we can sign a replacement in January.

Far far far too risky leaving ream who has clear limits to be our key CB option for half of the season. He's just not that good.

You want to put him up against Sterling, Aguero, Sane and Jesus in a one on one let alone together.. there's so much pace in premiership teams alone tracking lines now. He'll be found seriously wanting and all the amazing momentum we've built in the last two years and this summer would start unravelling far too quickly. The premiership is a different beast entirely. Let's not ruin it.


Milo

Quote from: General on July 25, 2018, 11:53:13 PM
Quote from: Milo on July 25, 2018, 11:21:46 PM
Quote from: The Rock on July 25, 2018, 11:14:59 PM
As I re-read this thread, I'm not sure anyone knows who our current best 2 defenders are to add to the soon to be 2 big signings?

Odoi and Ream are great for fixing the holes, but they are not foundation material.

I blame SJ for getting them punching above their weight, and a he's done a proper job, but Man City will make it look like Brazil vs. the Faroe Islands. It will be embarrassing.

I think Ream deserves a chance after being faultless last season. If he struggles with the pace of Prem we can sign a replacement in January.

Far far far too risky leaving ream who has clear limits to be our key CB option for half of the season. He's just not that good.

You want to put him up against Sterling, Aguero, Sane and Jesus in a one on one let alone together.. there's so much pace in premiership teams alone tracking lines now. He'll be found seriously wanting and all the amazing momentum we've built in the last two years and this summer would start unravelling far too quickly. The premiership is a different beast entirely. Let's not ruin it.

I was Reams biggest critic in his early seasons but he has given me nothing to complain about for quite some time now. I have quite a bit of faith in him but agree that his pace given his (relative) advancing age would be his Achilles heel.

I think the decision to replace Ream comes down to the bigger picture.

Currently with Shurrle, Seri, Fabri, and presumably a new RCB and LB we will have 5/11 starring players replaced with new faces. Arguably 6 if you consider Christie hasn't had that much game time with his teammates. If we then replace Ream as well... that's almost 80% of our first team overhauled. Will a lack of squad "gelling" have more of an effect than Reams pace?

It's a tough balance.. but I think with that in mind and given Reams player of the season performances, it would make more sense to review his position in January. However I can see arguments for and against!

Matt10

Quote from: General on July 25, 2018, 11:53:13 PM
Quote from: Milo on July 25, 2018, 11:21:46 PM
Quote from: The Rock on July 25, 2018, 11:14:59 PM
As I re-read this thread, I'm not sure anyone knows who our current best 2 defenders are to add to the soon to be 2 big signings?

Odoi and Ream are great for fixing the holes, but they are not foundation material.

I blame SJ for getting them punching above their weight, and a he's done a proper job, but Man City will make it look like Brazil vs. the Faroe Islands. It will be embarrassing.

I think Ream deserves a chance after being faultless last season. If he struggles with the pace of Prem we can sign a replacement in January.

Far far far too risky leaving ream who has clear limits to be our key CB option for half of the season. He's just not that good.

You want to put him up against Sterling, Aguero, Sane and Jesus in a one on one let alone together.. there's so much pace in premiership teams alone tracking lines now. He'll be found seriously wanting and all the amazing momentum we've built in the last two years and this summer would start unravelling far too quickly. The premiership is a different beast entirely. Let's not ruin it.

How often do we put our defenders in one-on-one situations? I can look through all the 90min matches on ffctv and find about 5 times total that we do that. We build numbers in attack, to build numbers in defense. There's a reason why we're not a counter attacking team, because we don't get exposed from build up as often, and we also don't get exposed through our CDM > CB's unless we cough it up in our own third.

There's a reason our system is hailed as one of the better ones out there. Championship or not, there can't be any argument to how we go undefeated for over 20 matches. I have full faith in our system, and the players - especially Ream - that Slav picks out.

hovewhite

Mawson and ream would be happy with that at centre back pairing as ream deserves a chance.


bobby01

Yes I would like to see an upgrade at cb, but all this criticism of a defence that went 23 undefeated is a bit ott imo.
Watching the ups and downs since 1958, wouldn't have it any other way, what a roller coaster of a club.

Woolly Mammoth

The worry about the defence with players individually as well as a unit has been a talking point for quite a while.
The Depth and the correct Balance is even more important when you consider the quality of player that we will be facing in the Premier League.
It's a different challenge, and a more difficult one to keep a clean sheet.
Odoi cannot even be considered for the first match, and we only need someone to pick up a knock before the season commences, and we are somewhat in a pickle.
Of course ideally we would love to reward the players that got us back in the Premier.
But we have to use our loaf and be wise before the event.
It's too late once that window closes shut, and we are shipping goals like there is no tomorrow against the best sides in the England.
Idealy we need three more defenders, but I would settle for two providing one was a RCB and the other a LB.
Alfie Mawson and Matt Targett would more than suffice. 
Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.

alfie

Quote from: General on July 25, 2018, 11:53:13 PM
Quote from: Milo on July 25, 2018, 11:21:46 PM
Quote from: The Rock on July 25, 2018, 11:14:59 PM
As I re-read this thread, I'm not sure anyone knows who our current best 2 defenders are to add to the soon to be 2 big signings?

Odoi and Ream are great for fixing the holes, but they are not foundation material.

I blame SJ for getting them punching above their weight, and a he's done a proper job, but Man City will make it look like Brazil vs. the Faroe Islands. It will be embarrassing.

I think Ream deserves a chance after being faultless last season. If he struggles with the pace of Prem we can sign a replacement in January.

Far far far too risky leaving ream who has clear limits to be our key CB option for half of the season. He's just not that good.

You want to put him up against Sterling, Aguero, Sane and Jesus in a one on one let alone together.. there's so much pace in premiership teams alone tracking lines now. He'll be found seriously wanting and all the amazing momentum we've built in the last two years and this summer would start unravelling far too quickly. The premiership is a different beast entirely. Let's not ruin it.
Well there are not too many defenders that can be put up against those players, those that can are already in the top clubs earning top money, and of course he just might continue with last seasons form.
Story of my life
"I was looking back to see if she was looking back to see if i was looking back at her"
Sadly she wasn't


S.F.Sorrow

Quote from: bobby01 on July 28, 2018, 09:33:57 AM
Yes I would like to see an upgrade at cb, but all this criticism of a defence that went 23 undefeated is a bit ott imo.

But half of that defence is gone... And Odoi is really a fullback. I would much rather see him at RB than CB.


Woolly Mammoth

Odoi is no Premier League Centre Back, and he will not even be considered v Palace. No more square pegs in round holes. Odoi may tie down the RB spot, but Christie might have something to say about that.
Then again the club may sign a new right back.
12 days left before the deadline.
Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.

filham

Quote from: GJB on July 25, 2018, 07:05:55 PM
Christie Odoi Ream Le Marchand with Sess on the wing surely?

Also, have people seen enough of Le Marchand to disregard him as not being good enough to be our left back for the season? I haven't so can't comment whether he'll be good enough, but am interested to hear why people consider him as a squad player rather than a starter?
Quote from: GJB on July 25, 2018, 07:05:55 PM
Christie Odoi Ream Le Marchand with Sess on the wing surely?

Also, have people seen enough of Le Marchand to disregard him as not being good enough to be our left back for the season? I haven't so can't comment whether he'll be good enough, but am interested to hear why people consider him as a squad player rather than a starter?
No can do, Odoi suspended.


bugsy

Quote from: Riversider on July 28, 2018, 08:25:39 AM
Please God let those Alfie Mawson rumours be true, Mawson alongside Ream and all of a sudden things start to look a whole lot better,
If we sign him I hope we give him the captain's armband as well,
COYSW
As of 1/2 hr ago and according to ESPN we are now favorite to sign Mawson.

The Old Count

Quote from: Riversider on July 25, 2018, 08:30:23 PM
Mawson and Smalling have both been made available by their clubs,
Those two added to our squad and my concerns suddenly ease,
Imagine those two with Mitrovic when we win a corner, for the first time in donkey's years we would have a genuine goal scoring threat,
Mawson and Smalling would bring that valuable Premier League experience with them to,
Would love to see it happen 👍🏻

I believe we get a sell on bonus if Man U sell Smalling. Wonder if that would come off of any fee?