Great debate on ticket prices

[Spirit of 2000]

On TFI

Looks like no mad rush from the members to buy those 65-75£ tickets for Arsenal. General sale is looming which means we will sell those tickets to Arsenal supporters/tourists. Unless STH will buy them which is unlikely. -- Dave, Tuesday, August 21, 06:10:47am (genkt-057-101.t-mobile.co.uk/149.254.57.101)
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Replies:

    30£ away tickets is the option for me this year. Pricing out genuine supporters and giving third of the ground to day trippers is not the way forward, but I guess club does not care who is buying those tickets. (NT) -- Will, Tuesday, August 21, 07:02:49am (213-152-45-13.dsl.eclipse.net.uk/213.152.45.13)
        All these genuine supporters who don't have season tickets who are up in arms that tickets are more expensive for a team like arsenal than they are for Huddersfield. Anyone would think they only want to come to certain games (NT) -- Me, Tuesday, August 21, 07:57:17am (host-92-21-86-32.as13285.net/92.21.86.32)
            I dont think people are up in arms that they are more expensive - thats pretty obvious. Also pretty obvious that people will be more likely to want to see us against Arsenal than Huddersfield if they are only able to come to 5 or 6 games a season, as many are. Its not the randoms i feel sorry for here, its the members, who have paid a yearly fee, and now get matchday prices like these. Even palace tickets were pricey, and as a result we didnt sell out. It's not the fact we're charging more, its the amount we're charging all round. I still think the club have got their pricing significantly wrong this year, and it all smacks of short termism (NT) -- Same Old Story, Tuesday, August 21, 08:24:20am (NoHost/194.62.232.103)
        absolutely scandalous pricing for "Cat A" matches tbh. Didn't get ST due to family and work commitments meaning I cannot make a percentage of matches. no way can me & the other half afford circa £110 - £150 to go to a football game unfotunately (before other match day sundries and expenses drive it towards the £200 mark) - before anyone quotes the "if you want premier football this is the price", I'llcounter with the factrit's supposed to be a working mans game - then someone will say that times have moved on and football is a business - supply and demand blah blah upon which I'll shrug and have to say that although it's to the games detriment I'll concede I won't get along to as many matches and await someone to have a go at me when I voice an opinion on a game and am branded an "armchair fan" - then the argument turns full circle. Depressing but true and football HAS changed since I was in my 20's most definitely for the worse ... -- HC, Tuesday, August 21, 08:09:39am (NoHost/213.212.80.107)
            so glad I was going home and away virtually every week when it was affordable, I had little bills, no kids, commitments etc -- HC, Tuesday, August 21, 08:10:03am (NoHost/213.212.80.107)
    i dont this is true i have membership these days as a season ticket is impracticle as i cant allways make every game most but not all so i tend to buy tickets when i know for sure i can go.......i suspect im not alone ther must be a good few thousand loyal fans like that...........but even i thought bloody hell £60 for a ticket ..........bit strong.........but as you say im sure some Norwegian/japanese tourist will have them on a one off trip to london...........chelsea fans have been moaning about this for years.......leads to no atmosphere....tourists taking selfies etc.......but hey as you say the club is a business and probably couldnt give a poo..... (NT) -- fulhamoldfart, Tuesday, August 21, 08:13:04am (cpc121226-nmal25-2-0-cust13.19-2.cable.virginm.net/77.96.184.14)
        +1 (NT) -- HC, Tuesday, August 21, 08:18:27am (NoHost/213.212.80.107)
    Football is a bubble of it's own. It has had constant inflation over the last decade, whereas in 'our' world wages have either stagnated or receded. (I worked as a consultant in a company 8 years ago where all of their Staff were told 15% wage cut or redundancies - No one there is back to what their wage was then). So those that run the game walk in different circles now, where £65 is small fry and they probably cannot relate to people that find that too much. They certainly won't understand that people pool there scant resource between husband and wife and will see it as £130 for a game because they and their income are likely one item. -- Glide, Tuesday, August 21, 08:30:14am (3.215.244.195.dsl.static.gibconnect.com/195.244.215.3)
    Be interesting . its on bt and kicks off at noon and sunday. Sell out or not ? (NT) -- stormy weather., Tuesday, August 21, 08:42:20am (97e7d96c.skybroadband.com/151.231.217.108)
    The hardcore fans who went through the 80's and 90's will be slowly but very surely priced out of attending, atmosphere will suffer, those £60 tickets will be bought by tourists or the middle class (who think going to a game with some chums may be a bit of a lark) who now inhabit most of Fulham, Hammersmith and Putney after the original local FFC supporting families were driven out by house prices etc (cue someone now accusing me of "inverted snobbery") – Lots of finger pointing then ensues about not selling our tickets, no atmosphere, crap support and armchair fans blah blah blah. As SOS says above – the raising of match day pricing so dramatically smacks of short termism rather than growing the grass roots fanbase but of course "It's the price of the premiership/supply and demand/times have changed/it's a business blah blah fecking blah" -- HC, Tuesday, August 21, 08:47:18am (NoHost/213.212.80.107)
        Sorry if this is watering down your "ticket price " argument, but remember it's the original locals who are happy to sell their houses at bonkers money, and move to the sticks, clearing their mortgages and setting themselves up for life that have helped fuel the price rise. -- Glide, Tuesday, August 21, 08:53:05am (3.215.244.195.dsl.static.gibconnect.com/195.244.215.3)
            fair point well made Glide but there are certainly cases of the kids leaving home from families in those areas not being able to buy property there or former council tennants similarly afflicted if they were considering the housing market. -- HC, Tuesday, August 21, 09:12:45am (NoHost/213.212.80.107)
    There is a much rather unsavory attitude .creeping in by some that if you dont have a season ticket you are a) not a real fan and b) its tough chit that tickets cost so much. Indicative of the ME society we seem to live in. I shall now add to that- just wait until next years season ticket prices are announced! (NT) -- Nick (Owen), Tuesday, August 21, 08:48:13am (cpc97164-walt22-2-0-cust406.13-2.cable.virginm.net/80.3.229.151)
        well said. I have an 'early bird' season ticket this year, and i will be lucky enough to be able to absorb the anticipated rises next year but it still doesnt stop me thinking theyre getting this wrong.because they are pricing out long term fans. Kids prices are especially exhorbitant (NT) -- Same Old Story, Tuesday, August 21, 08:55:01am (host86-189-236-253.range86-189.btcentralplus.com/86.189.236.253)
        Nick Owen. Loving the empathetic attitude mate. Maybe some families would rather simple day to day necessitys rather than spunking over 200 to take them to see their team ... that ME attitude must appall your outstanding morals mate. Or does that just get filed under "tough poo"?? (NT) -- Spirit of 2000, Tuesday, August 21, 09:01:02am (NoHost/148.252.129.188)
            Think you need to Re-Read Nick's post, you have got it's meaning backwards -- Glide, Tuesday, August 21, 09:14:24am (3.215.244.195.dsl.static.gibconnect.com/195.244.215.3)
                Oops sorry Nick. I find myself in agreement and needing to read more carefully (NT) -- Spirit of 2000, Tuesday, August 21, 09:25:32am (NoHost/148.252.129.188)
    Was always likely to happen.Isn't the premiership great.Already fondly remembering the vgood old days. (NT) -- LittleFulhamerRog, Tuesday, August 21, 09:00:46am (bcdd9447.skybroadband.com/188.221.148.71)
    It looks like fulham are selling tickets online to Arsenal members now. (NT) -- Surely not?, Tuesday, August 21, 09:10:06am (79-69-162-143.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com/79.69.162.143)
        gone fishing ? (NT) -- stormy weather., Tuesday, August 21, 09:16:59am (97e7d96c.skybroadband.com/151.231.217.108)
    Genuine and straight question. Ignore the idea of A B C category matches, what price should a good seat be for a one-off match? (NT) -- ffc123, Tuesday, August 21, 09:21:48am (NoHost/213.120.234.154)
        To me playing against teams like palace and burnley is a more interesting game as playing the "big six" is usually defend for your lives and try get a point. £30 away cap is fair I think, why should big six fan pay more at every ground (NT) -- Waterboy, Tuesday, August 21, 09:43:27am (NoHost/85.255.236.14)
        Depends on the club's priorities. They can max out the prices or keep tickets affordable for ordinary supporters. Ticket revenue after all is a fairly small percentage of a Premier League club's income. I was with a Huddersfield supporting friend yesterday and he said that all their season ticket prices are the same at a little over £300. Hence they sell out to locals. (NT) -- GS, Tuesday, August 21, 09:46:45am (149.155.125.91.dyn.plus.net/91.125.155.149)
            Your third sentence points to an irony, which is that a club *needs* to charge higher prices in the Championship, but of course can't dream of getting away with it. Concerns about short-termism are justified here. A generation of us will be bowing out ofor age reasons and will need replacing. Could we have afforded to get hooked for life as youngsters today -- actually turning up that is, not just streaming and tweeting? (NT) -- b+w g., Tuesday, August 21, 10:13:48am (host86-152-36-75.range86-152.btcentralplus.com/86.152.36.75)
    its a buisness, what do you expect? you think the khans are fans, you think they have the same emotional attachment as us? think again. we spend season after season screaming for ambitious investment and when it eventually comes, there are complaints about ticket prices. the tv cash wont cover transfer fees and personal terms, khan will be dipping into his pocket. he aint a charity. you want ambition and premiership football, well now youve got it and you have to pay for it. (NT) -- bob, Tuesday, August 21, 09:44:17am (188.29.165.91.threembb.co.uk/188.29.165.91)
        false economy. Brighton a team who finished 15th last season coined £107 million for TV income, prize money and various EPL related add ons. If we sold 25,000 tickets every home match at an average of £50 per ticket (probably will be lower with neutral end and concession tickets) then we would be coming in at around £23 mil in ticket sales - a fraction in comparison. However if we (as will most mid to small sized premier clubs) get relegated - under the current conditions our traditional fan base will be badly hit - a resource the club will be more reliant on without the premiership millions. As SOS says the current ticketing structure is short termist and likely to alienate hard core / long term fans and their families who may well be lost as a result. -- HC, Tuesday, August 21, 10:05:26am (NoHost/213.212.80.107)
    There was a piece the other day which showed that many of last years premier league clubs could have played in front of empty stadiums all season and still turned a profit. (NT) -- HE, Tuesday, August 21, 09:46:44am (NoHost/213.86.156.210)
        whats many? 3 or 12? its an ambiguous statement. maybe the top 4 but for most clubs theyre spending around ffp parameters with a number of clubs, even huge support bases like Newcastle, unable to invest much. almost all premiership clubs are in massive debt in some form. (NT) -- bob, Tuesday, August 21, 10:04:50am (188.29.164.194.threembb.co.uk/188.29.164.194)
            the number was 11 - over 50% of the permier league (NT) -- HC, Tuesday, August 21, 10:06:57am (NoHost/213.212.80.107)
                Link within reply -- HC, Tuesday, August 21, 10:10:51am (NoHost/213.212.80.107)
            Your own reply contains the best argument against what you're saying. 'Even those with huge support bases'. Exactly. Newcastle, even with double the capacity, are reliant in tv money for any level of suffiency, because gate reciepts are fractional to a clubs income (NT) -- Same Old Story, Tuesday, August 21, 10:14:41am (host86-189-236-253.range86-189.btcentralplus.com/86.189.236.253)
        I now live away from London with a young family, so I can only get to 6-7 home games a season. I've been home and away regularly in all 4 divisions, had a season ticket for years etc and I'm not bothered about watching us against the big sides, but the club are taking the rise with tickets prices against the likes of Palace and Bournemouth too. So, I'll end up watching a stream at home or televised games in the pub, whilst the club are happy to fill seats with tourists or away fans. (NT) -- Short term thinking that will alienate a lot of long standing fans. Next years season ticket prices will be interesting if we stay up., Tuesday, August 21, 10:07:20am (NoHost/213.120.234.138)

[hovewhite]

Well sounding like a broken record again,but I do believe that early bird prices will be minimum £600 next season bearing in mind no Riverside stand also so will be looking. To squeeze S.T holders which counts me out .

[Statto]

There's a decent discussion about economics to be had once you get past the moaning.

We'll likely spend £100m+ on wages, transfer fees etc this year, ultimately for a yield of about 40 pts. £2.5m per point. So if you can attribute 3 pts over the course of a season to the improved atmosphere you'd get from a sell-out crowd of proper fans (pure speculation I admit, but how might that Juve game have gone if the atmosphere that night was quiet and crap?) you could argue the value of that is £7.5m. Halving the price of all tickets would cost less than that.

There's also the inverse of the old argument about tax - the more you tax people, the less people stick around to pay tax, and overall tax receipts actually go down. With our tickets it may be that if you lower the price, we sell more, and perhaps overall revenues stay the same or even go up, despite the cost of an individual ticket going down. For example 20,000 fans paying an average of £50/ticket gives the same revenue as 25,000 paying £40/ticket. 

I also agree with the points made about the long-term implications - the economic benefits of growing your fan base. 

As to the argument about inflation, I'd be interested to know what our prices were when we last came up in 01/02 and when we went down 13/14. General inflation adds up to about 50% since 2001 and probably 10-15% since 2013. I expect ticket prices may have gone up by more than that but it explains some of it.

[Huxley]

With the knowledge of a proper VPN and 720p+ available for "free" it will be an easy choice for people not to attend games or pay for a pay per view service.

[MJG]

As to the argument about inflation, I'd be interested to know what our prices were when we last came up in 01/02 and when we went down 13/14. General inflation adds up to about 50% since 2001 and probably 10-15% since 2013. I expect ticket prices may have gone up by more than that but it explains some of it.

All prices below are FULL season ticket prices post early bird offers for the 2013/14 and 2018/19 season


JH Stand A AL K KL
2013 Adult £449 Concession £409 Junior £125
2018 Adult £549 Concession £459 Junior £129

Hamersmith H1H8
2013 Adult £449 Concession £409 Junior £220
2018 Adult £549 Concession £459 Junior £229

Riverside SL ZL
2013 Adult £449 Concession £409 Junior £220
2018 Adult £749 Concession £459 Junior £249

Hammersmith H2 H7
2013 Adult £499 Concession £439 Junior £250
2018 Adult £599 Concession £489 Junior £249

Riverside TL XL
2013 Adult £499 Concession £439 Junior £250
2018 Adult £749 Concession £519 Junior £249

Putney P1
2013 Adult £449 Concession £409 Junior £200
2018 N/A

Putney P2
2013 Adult £499 Concession £439 Junior £250
2018 N/A

Hammersmith H3/4/5/6
2013 Adult £599 Concession £449 Junior £250
2018 Adult £649 Concession £509 Junior £249


JH Stand B/BL/C/CL/H/HL/J/JL Riverside Z/S
2013 Adult £669 Concession £469 Junior £250
2018 Adult £749 Concession £519 Junior £249

Riverside Z/S
2013 Adult £669 Concession £469 Junior £250
2018 Adult £799 Concession £559 Junior £299


JH Stand D/DL/G/GL
2013 Adult £739 Concession £509 Junior £299
2018 Adult £849 Concession £559 Junior £299

JH Stand E,EL,F,FL
2013 Adult £849 Concession £849 Junior £849
2018 Adult £949 Concession £849 Junior £849

Riverside X/T
2013 Adult £849 Concession £849 Junior £849
2018 Adult £949 Concession £849 Junior £849

Riverside Vl,WL,W
2013 Adult £999 Concession £999 Junior £999
2018 Adult £1149 Concession £999 Junior £999

[Spirit of 2000]

Surely the issue being discussed is more pertinent to match day tickets rather than ST and I think that's where the biggest disparity will be found. Renewals of ST has kept prices in check so far.

[MJG]

Surely the issue being discussed is more pertinent to match day tickets rather than ST and I think that's where the biggest disparity will be found. Renewals of ST has kept prices in check so far.

It is, but thought Id give this data for info.

Matchday tickets have varied. I have shown recently that in late 2013 Swansea at home Adults were from £35 and Man Utd was from £49. I fully expect to see lower match tickets before xmas, but if club is able to sell tickets and keep the ground at 95% capacity, then from a buisness pov they may have been proved right.

[bobbo]

I'm not complaining, bought my ST in March , W block riverside 7 yards off the hallway line , concession for £750 approx . But I do feel for the fans who can't make many games having to stup up unrealistic prices.

"  ITS THE PRICE OF SUCCESS "

[Statto]

if club is able to sell tickets and keep the ground at 95% capacity, then from a buisness pov they may have been proved right.

Only if certain assumptions are true -
- high ticket prices don't affect the matchday atmosphere, or failing that, the atmosphere doesn't affect the team's performance
- high ticket prices don't affect the future size of our fan base/attendances
- high ticket prices don't affect sales of other products on which the club can make a profit, eg shirts and burgers
...etc

not saying these are true but the economic implications are quite complicated. bit like saying Inamoto cost us £10k per week (wages) when in fact we probably made loads of that back indirectly through shirt sales to japanese fans etc

the football supporters federation should commission a proper study of this