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Have fundamental mistakes been made ?

Started by Riversider, September 18, 2018, 12:45:43 PM

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Riversider

I hardly post or read on here anymore as slowly but surely I fall out of love with all things Premier League, so many things that rankle with me, I've even given my season ticket away for this Saturday, team selection and tactics against City being the final straw,
But I was thinking after the team was announced on Saturday, "Have we made fundamental mistakes in our recruitment of players ?"
For me we were one player away from being an automatically promoted side last season, and that position was a right winger with pace to burn, it was the only position that we were crying out for (bar an injury to either Ream or Odoi)
We've spent well over £100 million plus various loan fees, and yet we still lack an out and out right winger with pace to burn,
We pursued Targett all summer, far longer than we should have done it seemed to make us blind to all our other failings, then on deadline day blind panic seemed to set in, with Bryan and Fosuh-mensah almost being brought in as after thoughts,
The back 4 is a complete dogs dinner of a mess , with Jokanovic and all the supporters seemingly having no idea as to what the best defence should be, with the back 4 that started on Saturday we would have lost to anybody, and I've no doubts whatsoever that that back 4 will see us relegated,
Then of course we have Anguissa and the £20 million spent there , somebody must have seen something in him and yet he can't get in the side in front of either McDonald or Johansen,
I think we've got it horribly wrong in the summer and can't see things improving before January,
Last summer Kline was the scapegoat for a poor window last summer , well he's no more and Khan backed Jokanovic to the hilt this summer with unprecedented spending, and yet we still have so many problems all over the pitch,
We're in a mini league with Burnley, Huddersfield and Cardiff , and it's a league that we must win.

BedsFFC

Whilst I do understand where you are coming from, I think you will end up being pleasantly suprised. But, it may take a month or so

hovewhite

The only thing that will stop me being a season ticket holder is the club wacking up the prices to the post early bird levels this season annd that's down to affordable level.
I would never stop watching Fulham any other way.
I understand your reasoning and early doors last season people were questioning slav then big time but then slav sorted it which I expect him to do this season as well.


rogerpbackinMidEastUS

Quote from: BedsFFC on September 18, 2018, 12:50:26 PM
Whilst I do understand where you are coming from, I think you will end up being pleasantly suprised. But, it may take a month or so

I agree, although the continuous system which has brought us success was never going to succeed against Man City.
We gave them too much space and that was probably one of the best performances I've seen from any team for a long time.
They were sensational, it could easily have been 10 and they'll clobber many a team this season.

Sess at full back when he scored all those goals last season ?

I really couldn't understand the team selection, was it stubbornness ?  I think it was certainly naive.
and was never going to compete with Rene's teams performance against Man Utd a while back.

As for the rest of the season, Saturday was not a benchmark and we will have enough good days to easily
stay up, if Joka can be a bit more flexible, starting with Watford this Saturday,
VERY DAFT AND A LOT DAFTER THAN I SEEM, SOMETIMES

SuffolkWhite

I think it is still too early to say how we will do with the new players, and also to see how last seasons players manage the Prem.
Guy goes into the doctor's.
"Doc, I've got a cricket ball stuck up my backside
"How's that?"
"Don't you start"

Snibbo

I think our recruitment exceeded all expectations.

Fitness issues have hampered the bedding down process,  plus Slav does like to tinker a lot.

Once things have settled down,  we'll be fine,  as long as the tinkering subsides


Riverside

I am sure some mistakes have been made
All 12 signings will not work out

But many will work out and we have a good backbone from last season .

It will take time to come together - Burnley win was a bonus for me . And even when it does come together we will not be beating Man C away .

I am not giving away my season ticket and will support the team and enjoy the ride


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

KingofCheese

My other hobby is brewing and I thank the universe that brewer's are not so pessimistic as football fans as otherwise no beers would ever get made just because one or two batches turn out poorly!
Jullie Kaas is mijn Kaas

Woolly Mammoth

#8
I do share the concerns of anyone at this time, who do question various issues with regard to the team and management.
A week in football is a long time.
In my humble opinion I would not have tackled the City match with that starting lineup or system of play.
Now some may ask, what do I know that Slavisa does not, who am I to question his judgement.
My answer to them is, I haven't the foggiest, I haven't a clue.
However, as we all know this isn't rocket science. 
Pundits and coaches and managers will try and convince us it is, but they would do that wouldn't they, because they earn a very lucrative living out of it.
Certainly some of the first issues to be tackled.
Are Fulham match fit for a Premier Division Level Match.
Because the first 90 plus minutes are the most important.
Of course we all also know that the ball never gets tired. 
So then whatever level you may play at, you have to get the basics right, right from the start, and there are many basics.
I cannot name them all, there are far too many.
But it could be getting your first touch and your timing up to speed. Supporting the man on the ball at all times.
He needs to have at least three players to pass to when he is on the ball. It's things like talking and communication, getting your throw ons right, not throwing it at somebody's chest or stomach as I have often seen.
Throwing to feet is generally the best option, the ball is quicker to control and you can literally control and pass in one movement.
If in doubt when taking a throw, then work the line, where heading the ball on comes into contention.
Simple things like concentration at set pieces for and against, and also at restarts. Play to the whistle.
Basics like, if our full back gets beat like so often happened on Saturday, do not run in the slip stream of the player that has just creamed you, go inside to the centre back position, as your centre back should automatically come across to cover you, show the guy the line, delay him long enough for you to get into his position to restore the balance depth and shape in defence. By delaying him your centre back is buying time for the rest of our players to get back and pick up these markers.
By doing that he either forces the opponent to put in an early cross which should be meat and drink to out Keeper and defence. But also it may force the opponent to recycle and move the ball across to the other side.
By then our team have their shape back.
Another important aspect is good habits. We have to adopt good habits. That is a fundamental requirement.
So it shows it's a simple game, not rocket science, providing the players are prepared to run through a brick wall for the Manager, and come out fighting on the other side.
Because if the players are not prepared to do that, then the manager does have a problem.
If a players is having a bad game, he can still run around. That's basics. How many times do we see players deliberately standing next to an opponent, so nobody can pass to him, because he is saying don't pass to me I am being marked.
But actually he doesn't want the ball because he has lost confidence.
Of course on the other side of the coin, in Slavisas defence, he did not know that Seri was going to have a bad game by his standards. He did not plan to concede an early goal. Plus he cannot be judged on playing City, that's a hell of an ask.
But Managers are there to manage, on and off the pitch.
I reckon we need to leave it until about the 16th match before jumping off Beach Head.
But I reckon that won't need to happen, because we do have enough quality players, more than at least six other teams.
We will certainly have a far better picture of where we are by then.
There are so many basics, that is just a few examples.
Please remember,  " Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan ".

Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.


grandad

Where there's a will there's a wife

IKnowNothing

Quote from: KingofCheese on September 18, 2018, 02:50:13 PM
My other hobby is brewing and I thank the universe that brewer's are not so pessimistic as football fans as otherwise no beers would ever get made just because one or two batches turn out poorly!
Having been a artist and furniture maker for the last 33 years I could not have said it better myself.  082.gif  If only I could afford a jet flight and a place to stay I'd be all over that ticket to Fulham. Ahh! the hardship of some.

Woolly Mammoth

Quote from: IKnowNothing on September 18, 2018, 03:11:44 PM
Quote from: KingofCheese on September 18, 2018, 02:50:13 PM
My other hobby is brewing and I thank the universe that brewer's are not so pessimistic as football fans as otherwise no beers would ever get made just because one or two batches turn out poorly!
Having been a artist and furniture maker for the last 33 years I could not have said it better myself.  082.gif  If only I could afford a jet flight and a place to stay I'd be all over that ticket to Fulham. Ahh! the hardship of some.

If your a furniture maker you could earn a small fortune making Armchairs for Supporters of all clubs, there should be a huge demand. 
Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.


IKnowNothing

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 18, 2018, 03:18:16 PM
Quote from: IKnowNothing on September 18, 2018, 03:11:44 PM
Quote from: KingofCheese on September 18, 2018, 02:50:13 PM
My other hobby is brewing and I thank the universe that brewer's are not so pessimistic as football fans as otherwise no beers would ever get made just because one or two batches turn out poorly!
Having been a artist and furniture maker for the last 33 years I could not have said it better myself.  082.gif  If only I could afford a jet flight and a place to stay I'd be all over that ticket to Fulham. Ahh! the hardship of some.

If your a furniture maker you could earn a small fortune making Armchairs for Supporters of all clubs, there should be a huge demand. 
I don't do upholstery.

HamsterWheel

A year ago we lost 2-1 to Burton Albion. Now we've lost 3-0 to Manchester City.
Clearly we're going backwards as a team and should jack it in and go play netball.

Del-boy

To be fair, few players come to prem from abroad and clicked in like that. Seri, LM, Anguisa are new to prem, England, style of game, Fulham. It takes some time to adjust to all these things.
Others were not first choices in their previous clubs.
It is a mistake to think that last season team needed just few changes to make it in the prem. SJ is solving a bit of puzzle at the moment, and he will do a great job, I have no doubt. I followed his work in Partizan Belgrade and in Wofford. It takes time but gives a results, as you all remember from last season.

P. S. Sorry for the spelling errors, didn't write in English for a while.


Lighthouse

I don't think fundamental mistakes have been made. We are not looking for a settled back four. We are looking for a back four who can play against the team they are facing. That is according to our coach. While we could have always done with more or better players. I think the speed in which we moved for alternative players when deals fell through was astonishing. I don't believe we are missing in any position but yes it would be good to be stronger in all positions. I am not sure a club like ours could have done much better.

But I do agree that mistakes are made in tactics and selection. Fans must remember that even last season our coach was apt to make a few odd selections, substitutions and make the occasional mistake. Those fans who cannot see that or agree that that happens I am afraid will have to come to the realisation soon enough. No that doesn't mean he should be sacked or that there is a list of better coaches ready to take his place. But he does make mistakes and I thought we were poor Saturday. Yes I was happy to only lose by three goals but frankly twice that would have been a fairer result.

However we can't legislate for injury to Ream or Carney. We are always going to be in trouble when certain players are injured. We are a very small fish in a big ocean. We will need to survive a few seasons before we can compete well at this level. But our first plunge will have a few fights for survival but I am not sure we made any real mistakes as we were ready to take that plunge.
The above IS NOT A LEGAL DOCUMENT. It is an opinion.

We may yet hear the horse talk.

I can stand my own despair but not others hope

BlackWhiteArmy

Hmmm, don't think any fundamental mistakes has been made. Fulham's 100m as a newly promoted club, and UTD's, Liverpools or even clubs like Everton or Watford 100m are not the same.
So far I think Seri is a pure quality but my modest opinion is that he is not a relegation battle player and that when/if things (start) are going bad he'll be useless so unless team start picking some wins soon he'll be worse and worse instead of better and better. Anguisa, yet to be convinced he's worth any of the money payed for him, so far didn't see anything useful coming from him, but that's kind of player you can buy (overpay) for 20m as a newly promoted team, I know people are excited about this guy but in my opinion worst acquisition so far, I'm totally willing to eat all the poo i pooped if proven otherwise and will be happy to. Also Christie really need to work on his crossing, I ignore city game, whatever Jokanovic's plan for that one was is irrelevant but in a Palace Game I really felt like with at least one Solid cross game could have been changed. Also this short distribution from the last 4 is cool but seriously, like 2-3 goals this season came after lazy horrible short passes from the back being intercepted. Much bigger teams with better players don't do risky passes for no reason in the last 30.

Aside of that, I think Fulham should be between 12th and 16th spot this year, sorta think Hudder and Cardiff are going down for sure, and one of these: Newcastle, Brighton, Southampton even and Burnley are gonna be taking 18th spot, pretty sure West Ham is staying up too.

Woolly Mammoth

Quote from: IKnowNothing on September 18, 2018, 03:47:20 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 18, 2018, 03:18:16 PM
Quote from: IKnowNothing on September 18, 2018, 03:11:44 PM
Quote from: KingofCheese on September 18, 2018, 02:50:13 PM
My other hobby is brewing and I thank the universe that brewer's are not so pessimistic as football fans as otherwise no beers would ever get made just because one or two batches turn out poorly!
Having been a artist and furniture maker for the last 33 years I could not have said it better myself.  082.gif  If only I could afford a jet flight and a place to stay I'd be all over that ticket to Fulham. Ahh! the hardship of some.

If your a furniture maker you could earn a small fortune making Armchairs for Supporters of all clubs, there should be a huge demand. 
I don't do upholstery.

Quote from: Del-boy on September 18, 2018, 04:14:12 PM
To be fair, few players come to prem from abroad and clicked in like that. Seri, LM, Anguisa are new to prem, England, style of game, Fulham. It takes some time to adjust to all these things.
Others were not first choices in their previous clubs.
It is a mistake to think that last season team needed just few changes to make it in the prem. SJ is solving a bit of puzzle at the moment, and he will do a great job, I have no doubt. I followed his work in Partizan Belgrade and in Wofford. It takes time but gives a results, as you all remember from last season.

P. S. Sorry for the spelling errors, didn't write in English for a while.

I thought for a minute you had written Walford, I was going to say you have been watching Eastenders again.
Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.


Woolly Mammoth

Quote from: IKnowNothing on September 18, 2018, 03:47:20 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 18, 2018, 03:18:16 PM
Quote from: IKnowNothing on September 18, 2018, 03:11:44 PM
Quote from: KingofCheese on September 18, 2018, 02:50:13 PM
My other hobby is brewing and I thank the universe that brewer's are not so pessimistic as football fans as otherwise no beers would ever get made just because one or two batches turn out poorly!
Having been a artist and furniture maker for the last 33 years I could not have said it better myself.  082.gif  If only I could afford a jet flight and a place to stay I'd be all over that ticket to Fulham. Ahh! the hardship of some.

If your a furniture maker you could earn a small fortune making Armchairs for Supporters of all clubs, there should be a huge demand. 
I don't do upholstery.

Upholsterers never die, they fully recover.
Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.

IKnowNothing

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 18, 2018, 04:31:06 PM
Quote from: IKnowNothing on September 18, 2018, 03:47:20 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 18, 2018, 03:18:16 PM
Quote from: IKnowNothing on September 18, 2018, 03:11:44 PM
Quote from: KingofCheese on September 18, 2018, 02:50:13 PM
My other hobby is brewing and I thank the universe that brewer's are not so pessimistic as football fans as otherwise no beers would ever get made just because one or two batches turn out poorly!
Having been a artist and furniture maker for the last 33 years I could not have said it better myself.  082.gif  If only I could afford a jet flight and a place to stay I'd be all over that ticket to Fulham. Ahh! the hardship of some.

If your a furniture maker you could earn a small fortune making Armchairs for Supporters of all clubs, there should be a huge demand. 
I don't do upholstery.

Upholsterers never die, they fully recover.
Ta da ba Boom!  And now you tell me. :005: