Odoi & Ream

[toshes mate]

On the subject of player performances it is hard to comment without also debating what drives individuals to do and be what they promise before actually taking their places on the pitch.  "Arrogant and positive" is how Jokanovic introduced Harvey Elliott before his start at Millwall.   Of course other footballers of whatever age are neither necessarily arrogant nor necessarily positive when doing their stuff to the adulation of their worshippers.  Ream gets on with his job as if he were a craftsman delicately but deliberately cutting his material in just the way it needs to be cut.  Mitro is all gusto and energy making the point that if you want a goal you'd be wise to seek him out.  Sessegnon, Ryan and Steven both,  are grounded in the school of learning, being discipline, and developing by treading along well paths taken by many before them.  Different people have different approaches and all we should desire of any of them is that they succeed.   What they all have in common is the ability to make mistakes, as all of us are.

Of Alfie Mawson I have no doubt he will come good again.  He has a certain air about him that is wishing to show us what he can really do once he is fully recovered, fully match fit and fully acquainted with his team mates.  Denis Odoi does what I guess he has always done and that is to demonstrate to anyone watching that there is so much more to him than meets the eye.   Of Callum Chambers I know he is a good defender, a footballer with technique and ability way beyond what he is currently demonstrating and so his 'failure' rate is a mystery to me and I feel the problem has to be a mental or makeup issue.  That is why I pin him, unfairly as it may prove to be, as not giving sufficient effort to his game and not necessarily just during game time, but, like everything in a footballer's career, he can change that situation.

I hope all the players on FFC's books do well for themselves as footballers and people and I do realise that what I get to see of them on match days may obscure many other problems working people have no matter what job they have. 

[alfie]

After all that has been said on here, we have yet to see Ream in the premiership, people are putting a lot of faith in him, and I really hope he justifies all this clammering for him

[bog]

We should not forget that it took a few games for Brede Hangland to settle in, and also by his own admission and look at the legendary status he reached. So perhaps we should wait a bit longer before passing judgement.


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[love4ffc]

Think it is a wait and see for the entire back line.  However it is something that needs to be figured out and fast.  I never can buy into the notion of early days.  Every game, goal and point is vital.   

[Shredhead]

Think it is a wait and see for the entire back line.  However it is something that needs to be figured out and fast.  I never can buy into the notion of early days.  Every game, goal and point is vital.   

This.
I was impressed with Odoi when he came on as CB - I've always been a bit shaky about him in that position, even last season. And although Reeeam used to get caught out in the championship - left behind by speedy inside forwards we should play Ream and Odoi when the former gets back from injury as they are a proven combination.

[filham]

At half time against Watford Mawson and


















At 12-30pm last Saturday, after a full weeks training Mawson and Chambers were selcted to play and were considered to be our 1st choice centre backs. After 45 minutes of being overun by Watford Mawson was pulled off in a desprate attempt to stop the rot.


The big question now is how long before we dare risk Mawson again in a premier league match.

[Woolly Mammoth]

I do not look upon Mawson as a risk, not sure what Slavisa thinks.
I would have thought that if our Manager had any doubts about Mawson, he would have given him a run out last night. 

[AnOldBrownie]

Just now  it looks as if the Chambers and Mawson signings are a becoming a repeat of our Icelandic venture.

Last season we wasted £9m on Fonte. You do have to question how often we see these players in action before signing them.

Mawson was a complete unknown, having only played first team football in the PL for two seasons. Real gamble to think he'd be able to play PL football.

He has played two seasons in PL with Swansea. First season he was part of a team that shipped 2nd most goals in the league, Second season he was relegated with them, so I do think he has to prove himself competent at this level.

I'm new here...but the poster above makes a lot of sense.    Even if Mawson or Chambers prove to be "OK", are either of them able to do what Odoi does?   Sure, they've got size and power...but agility and smarts appear to be more important in this system.


Hell, I'd trust Fosu at CB before I'd try either of them there.   He has the pace to help with an attack then get his ass back on defense if he needs to.

If healthy...Odoi and Ream are going to be the every day PL starters.

[FFC NY]

Both Odoi and Ream have the ability and composure to beat a man, carry the ball forwards and quickly turn defence into attack.

When other teams are pressing us it often takes out 2 or 3 of their players and relieves pressure on the whole team - perhaps this is coached as part of Slav's system and it will come with time but it isn't something that Chambers or Mawson have shown in the time they have played so far.

We can't just keep playing it short into Kmac or Seri or knocking it long to Mitro - we need ball playing centre backs for our system to work properly.

[HectorWeso]

Patience is a virtue, and it is my belief that both Alfie Mawson and Callum Chambers will show that they are both Premier League quality,

Agree totally

Love you MJG but Im not sold on chambers. Not by a long shot. Reckon Odoi, Ream and MLM are better in our system. And that's the crucial bit. In our system.

[thebumponleroyshead]

+1

[toshes mate]

I hope we remember Kalas was okay for us and considered better than Ream by many on here during his first season and yet who was partnering Ream for most of the run than got us promotion last season - Odoi.  Players are not automatons that just reel out the same things every game or even in a single game, they are human and go through phases.  Some never get into the phase that means selection every match and many move on because of that.  Others are deemed adequate and may be bench warmers or get places in lower key matches.  The players the coaches favour most are those who are reliable and do not fluctuate between terrible and barely adequate because they will cost less points than those who vary between fair to very good.   It takes a rather harsh judge after just six PL games to discount or dismiss any of the new signings.     

[ffcne]

Patience is a virtue, and it is my belief that both Alfie Mawson and Callum Chambers will show that they are both Premier League quality,

Agree totally

Love you MJG but Im not sold on chambers. Not by a long shot. Reckon Odoi, Ream and MLM are better in our system. And that's the crucial bit. In our system.

I agree Odoi,Ream,MLM ball playing defenders.And perfect for the way we play.

[hovewhite]

Don't think Mawson ,chambers are bad players ability wise,however I did see the Serbian post match reaction where slav said there positions on the pitch were wrong through out first half and 4 could have been hooked we were that bad.
Odoi,ream  know there positions at every stage of the game plus have confidence of slav which likes of mawson and chambers are in that stage of ream when slav  came in and was prepared to let him go.
It must be difficult for any defender in the season playing the way we set up and even more so in the premier league!

[YoungsBitter]

On the subject of player performances it is hard to comment without also debating what drives individuals to do and be what they promise before actually taking their places on the pitch.  "Arrogant and positive" is how Jokanovic introduced Harvey Elliott before his start at Millwall.   Of course other footballers of whatever age are neither necessarily arrogant nor necessarily positive when doing their stuff to the adulation of their worshippers.  Ream gets on with his job as if he were a craftsman delicately but deliberately cutting his material in just the way it needs to be cut.  Mitro is all gusto and energy making the point that if you want a goal you'd be wise to seek him out.  Sessegnon, Ryan and Steven both,  are grounded in the school of learning, being discipline, and developing by treading along well paths taken by many before them.  Different people have different approaches and all we should desire of any of them is that they succeed.   What they all have in common is the ability to make mistakes, as all of us are.

Of Alfie Mawson I have no doubt he will come good again.  He has a certain air about him that is wishing to show us what he can really do once he is fully recovered, fully match fit and fully acquainted with his team mates.  Denis Odoi does what I guess he has always done and that is to demonstrate to anyone watching that there is so much more to him than meets the eye.   Of Callum Chambers I know he is a good defender, a footballer with technique and ability way beyond what he is currently demonstrating and so his 'failure' rate is a mystery to me and I feel the problem has to be a mental or makeup issue.  That is why I pin him, unfairly as it may prove to be, as not giving sufficient effort to his game and not necessarily just during game time, but, like everything in a footballer's career, he can change that situation.

I hope all the players on FFC's books do well for themselves as footballers and people and I do realise that what I get to see of them on match days may obscure many other problems working people have no matter what job they have. 

Spot on, good post.
Mawson and Chambers have had some success in the Prem, Odoi on recent games has now had some success in the Prem. MLM did ok against Palace and Spurs but we lost both so thats maybe not success. Ream is yet to be really tested. Fosu-Mensah can also play CB but Slav prefers him when needs height at RB, arguably Chambers played RB for Boro for most of his loan and did well so could do otherwise. So we to date have 5 potential CBs, some are right footed and some are left footed. The key issues will be individual players' commitments to learning our system and improving and ability to fit the system.
I think you could see the 4 positions across the back being fluid for some time, much to the anger and frustration of the "must have a settled team" lobby. If Slav has everyone able to play comfortably in the system and with each other then thats a good thing. We would then be able to play height and heft (Mawson and Chambers) against the Burnley and Cardiff style teams away; play ball carrying play makers ( Ream and Odoi) against bottom half teams at home and mix of guile and speed against the top 6 (not Ream, too slow, but Odoi and one of MLM or Chambers) It also gives us options to go 3 across the back with 2 wing backs as needed.
This is a "high class" problem to have. Conceding goals within 90 seconds is just terrible concentration and has to stop, regardless of who is the back 4/5.