Defending

[colinwhite]

I dont think we should start playing five at the back . We could play 6 at the back and if we dont start doing the basics we are still going to ship goals. We were sloppy in defense yesterday and we were too far away from the arsenal forwards for 4 of their goals, they must have thought it was christmas. We were so powder-puff in certain situations it was ridiculous.
I dont believe that we should start playing defensively or necessarily change that much . But we need to change the mentality from one of focusing on attack (christies performance mirroring what I mean ), to winning balls or conceding free kicks by being more aggressive. Lacazette didnt know he was in  a game.
I still think that we also lack (big time ) the defensive shield offered by Kmac last season. Whilst acknowledging that he could be a bit too slow for this level ,I dont see an alternative that is going to focus on defending and covering. Ream looks way off the pace and we need leaders to help us defend better.
For me Mawson and chambers ( although they were woeful against watford) have to come in with Odoi at right back and le marchand on the left,with KMac in front of them.sessignon has to be in front of Le marchand either Schurlle or Vietta has to be sacrificed ( not because they have been poor) for ayete who does a better defensive job. To me that that gives us better defensive balance ,and although we maybe would be weaker going forward I think it needs to be done. Obviously in an ideal world cairney ,Seri and Mitro ,make up the starting Eleven.

[toshes mate]

There isn't a lot of sense in packing defence in the hope that a breakaway will produce a goal.  The players we have are supposed to have the quality needed to play in this league and yet we are, as you say, sloppy, casual and, at times, downright lazy.  I am really unsure, given the personnel at his disposal, that SJ has any chance of sorting out a regime that'll fit all the players he has and that means either changing starting elevens until it fits or changing tactics to produce the same result.  I prefer a back three but we must have someone reliable in midfield as the defensive cover however the side is set up.  Neither Seri nor Anguissa seem able to play that role. but McDonald is clearly struggling just as much as everybody else.  Only Odoi seems spirited enough to take the game as it comes and do whatever is required of him.  At least you notice when he makes mistakes whereas for some others it's a miracle when they do something right. 

Still optimistic SJ will turn it around, but would have preferred much better choices by recruitment from the very start of summer.   Seems to be too many misfits and I do feel they could have done a lot, lot better than they have.

[FFC NY]

Last year defending wasn't exactly a strong point but we would do our best to defend from the front. Mitro was our first line of defence and would be back in our half chasing everything and often bundling their players over! The wide-men would be back defending in our box when required. The tracking back this year is completely different and it seems that a token effort to get back somewhere near our box is 'good enough'. Yesterday there were far too many players jogging back and not even making an attempt to get goal side.

Schurrle, Mitro and Vietto all have a great work-rate but I just wonder if it would be better spent tracking back rather than pressing and ball chasing higher up the pitch. Perhaps they are under instruction to stay higher up the pitch in an attempt for us to be braver but we need to start defending as a team and for me everyone is responsible.

[Twig]

Neither Schurrle nor Vietto are much use in defending from the front.  Shurrle goes into a tackle like Bambi and Vietto goes missing.  I recognise they both have other qualities so I'm not criticising them as players, I just think they are weak in helping us defend from the front.  if we are going to persist with them both then I tend to agree that we need full backs who are more defensive minded, probably Odoi and MLM.  As defensive midfield cover I'm sorry but sadly McDonald just appears to be way off the pace.  I suppose we have to persist with Zambo but he is looking increasingly like another expensive mistake.  Personally that position would be my priority in the January window along with a CB.

[colinwhite]

I would even give some thought to playing Odoi in front of the back four. We have to do something. Ok Christie bombed up the line but where was the covering DM to slide across to cover him when needed? Sadly Vietto looks to me to be the one to make way for another more 2 way operating player like Sessignon.

[Ordar]

I would even give some thought to playing Odoi in front of the back four. We have to do something. Ok Christie bombed up the line but where was the covering DM to slide across to cover him when needed? Sadly Vietto looks to me to be the one to make way for another more 2 way operating player like Sessignon.

Interesting you suggest playing odoi in DM, I actually have had that thought this week aswell.

Main thing we should tactically change is the full backs pushing up so far. This has to be sacrificed and them play much deeper. The space the full backs leave is constantly exploited by teams, and alot of the goals we concede come from counters down the wings.

Not sure the whole "style" argument is true anymore. We usually put together 3 or 4 nice passages of play per game, and the rest of our attempts at attacking are token at best.

We wont stay up playing the system and style we are attempting to do at the moment. We're conceding a record number of goals and not exactly scoring many at the other end

[richnj]

I would even give some thought to playing Odoi in front of the back four. We have to do something. Ok Christie bombed up the line but where was the covering DM to slide across to cover him when needed? Sadly Vietto looks to me to be the one to make way for another more 2 way operating player like Sessignon.

Agreed - exactly the problem; no DM.  You can keep 3 at the back and go 5 mids with Mitro and Vietto or Shurrle up front.  Sit Odoi and someone else in front of the back 3, then string 3 in front of them.. 3-2-3-2

[AnOldBrownie]

Still optimistic SJ will turn it around, but would have preferred much better choices by recruitment from the very start of summer.   Seems to be too many misfits and I do feel they could have done a lot, lot better than they have.

That's a bit harsh.    I just rewatched the game (it's up on 90 minutes) and I'd say the biggest problem (other than the FBs getting caught out and not being athletic enough to get back) is our midfielders watch the ball when it's not in Fulham's possession and allow attacking players to dictate what happens.  It's like they're not engaged as much as they should be.   The ball isn't stopped before it gets to be a threat to our back line.    A cross gets allowed that should never be allowed.   

It's one of the things that Ryan Fredericks (sorry to keep bringing his name up) excelled at last year.    His pace allowed him to get to spots that would make a crosser, or an attacker ...have to rethink what they were about to do.


PACE on defense.

It's why I was/am so optimistic about Fosu, but unlike Ryan Fredericks, Timothy Fosu-Mensah isn't comfortable in Slav's system yet.

Odoi is fine.    Ream, and even MLM at CB are fine.    Three CBs are fine, but those two wingers and the holding mid better damn well be dialed in to challenge everything.

The midfielders and the wings need to help defend.

[Milo]

Think poor old Odoi will end up at right back so agree with you there.

However MLM has looked poor whenever played away from LCB. Also Ream made one error for the goal in his first game back. Otherwise I thought he looked relatively tidy. Would disagree he looked "way off the pace"... probably slightly off the pace.

[colinwhite]

Our defending in our box was very poor for their first ,second and fourth goals . They have 2 strikers that they have payed more than 100mill for and we let them turn and shoot in our 6 yard box.
we played some decent fotball ,but goals change games especially when you gift them to the opposition.

[filham]

Ok , I am convinced from the above that Odoi was our best defender on Sunday and now we have to play him at central defence, holding midfielder and right back . Can we clone him twice in time for the Cardiff match.