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Shahid Khan not buying Wembley

Started by Berserker, October 17, 2018, 03:12:27 PM

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MJG

"Why would Populous not be able to recommend a construction company" Who says they haven't?

"They are currently working on Tottenhams new ground (potentially the best stadium in Europe) they designed Wembley, The Emirates and The Allianz Arena it's truly unbelievable to suggest they can't put forward a name for our stand"
Once again who says they haven't? I'd add those are all four brand new stadiums with plenty of room to work with. Not one stand restricted on at least two sides.


"I think the delay (for some reason) went hand in hand with Wembley, now that is no longer on the table hopefully The Riverside Stand news can accelerate"
I don't believe it was or is related. But if comes out it was then ill happily say I was wrong.
Just the views of a long term fan

Forever Fulham

I'm not sure what to make of all this.  But my net impression is that our owner is engaged more and more with this sport, with Fulham, with the future of both.  Maybe he had and still has plans for Wembley that also involve NFL football.  Who knows.  But he's making his presence known to the English football community, people with pull and influence.  And he's seemingly doing it in a polite, respectful, manner.  Some how, some way, it will redound to Fulham FC's further benefit, I'm sure of it. 

flyingfish

Some of the comments on here are hilarious about populous merely putting a name forward and hey presto we have a builder. This is not like booking a builder in for an extension to your house (who incidentally the good ones have waiting lists longerbthan a year around where I live) the tender and design process on major projects takes months. It is not just a question of showing someone the planning drawings and they puff out their cheeks and whistle and name a price it is incredibly complex. I speak with experience in development- these things take time.


Woolly Mammoth

I shall be quite happy and content with a new cushion on my seat.
Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.

Beamer

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on October 18, 2018, 07:50:16 AM
I shall be quite happy and content with a new cushion on my seat.

Hopefully you will be putting the provision of such article out to tender and will be incorporating ideas from said tenders into your final choice. Tricky project cushions - I'm guessing you may be comfy by 2021.

toshes mate

Khan has gone up in my estimation as a businessman.  He has analysed the problem of the FA Council vote before it has even taken place and put his finger on the divisiveness there is within our main Football Authority.   He has given the FA back its own problem of how to bring greater equality back into football in England.   If Wembley is not the fund raiser then the FA must now come to terms with what is to be the fund raiser because otherwise grassroots football in England is going to sink further into the mire until it's in danger of sinking without trace.


Holders

Quote from: toshes mate on October 18, 2018, 09:32:08 AM
Khan has gone up in my estimation as a businessman.  He has analysed the problem of the FA Council vote before it has even taken place and put his finger on the divisiveness there is within our main Football Authority.   He has given the FA back its own problem of how to bring greater equality back into football in England.   If Wembley is not the fund raiser then the FA must now come to terms with what is to be the fund raiser because otherwise grassroots football in England is going to sink further into the mire until it's in danger of sinking without trace.

I agree that it was well-judged to reconsider rather than trying to push an important decision through on a slim majority regardless of the consequences.

You don't have to look too far for an example of what happens then!
Non sumus statione ferriviaria

..FOF..

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on October 18, 2018, 07:50:16 AM
I shall be quite happy and content with a new cushion on my seat.

I am expecting a couple 30million signings in January.......... or an expensive new coach.

Riversider

Quote from: flyingfish on October 18, 2018, 07:13:06 AM
Some of the comments on here are hilarious about populous merely putting a name forward and hey presto we have a builder. This is not like booking a builder in for an extension to your house (who incidentally the good ones have waiting lists longerbthan a year around where I live) the tender and design process on major projects takes months. It is not just a question of showing someone the planning drawings and they puff out their cheeks and whistle and name a price it is incredibly complex. I speak with experience in development- these things take time.

Well they've been working on this for 5 years or so and planning permission was granted 8 months ago, but I will bow to your superior knowledge and give them more time,
Oh and one other point, Populous have no equal as far as stadium design goes, Khan and Macintosh won't be telling them the name of the construction company that they will be working with that's for sure, it doesn't work like that, Populous would have to much to lose,
Maybe we've forgotten to order the steel again ! 🤣😂😆


MJG

#29
Quote from: Riversider on October 18, 2018, 12:00:20 PM

Oh and one other point, Populous have no equal as far as stadium design goes, Khan and Macintosh won't be telling them the name of the construction company that they will be working with that's for sure, it doesn't work like that, Populous would have to much to lose,

Steve are you getting a design company mixed up with a construction company? Explain why the construction company would not be mentioned to Populous by the club and what would they lose? They (Populous)will have to work with a company when the club pick the construction firm.
Just the views of a long term fan

Take Me Home MAF

Quote from: Lighthouse on October 17, 2018, 03:24:26 PM
Great shame as it feels as if the little Englander comments and criticism he received have worn him down. The game could have done with his money and influence. Instead we are still left with a bunch of self serving blowhards running and ruining the game.

Nothing to do with Fulham, this was a bad deal with no sustainable reason to sell, I opposed it as it did not make commercial sense.

I feel some of the comment epitomise whats wrong with the day and age. When people don't get their own way they attack the people and tarnish them with the same brush, similar to Brexit - "FA old farts" "little Englanders". Its childish.

If you look at Rob Smiths - Press Associations Tweet, it included a graphic of the voters - the opinion was across the board - coaches, refs, councilors didnt want it. Not just "old farts"



Statto

Quote from: Take Me Home MAF on October 18, 2018, 01:22:17 PM
Nothing to do with Fulham, this was a bad deal with no sustainable reason to sell, I opposed it as it did not make commercial sense.

I feel some of the comment epitomise whats wrong with the day and age. When people don't get their own way they attack the people and tarnish them with the same brush, similar to Brexit - "FA old farts" "little Englanders". Its childish.

If you look at Rob Smiths - Press Associations Tweet, it included a graphic of the voters - the opinion was across the board - coaches, refs, councilors didnt want it. Not just "old farts"

I agree with you re Brexit comments FWIW

But what is the "commercial" reason for not selling Wembley?

It was built on finance on which the FA is probably paying ££££tens of millions in interest each year. After those costs and maintenance costs, I expect the next revenue generated from hosting the odd Robbie Williams concert is tiny.

It will probably take decades to generate £600m in net revenue, by which time kids will probably all be playing with hover boards instead of footballs anyway.

What's not commercial about turning a weak, volatile long-term revenue stream into a huge guaranteed lump sum that's more useful now?


Marcel_Gecov

Quote from: Statto on October 18, 2018, 01:33:14 PM
Quote from: Take Me Home MAF on October 18, 2018, 01:22:17 PM
Nothing to do with Fulham, this was a bad deal with no sustainable reason to sell, I opposed it as it did not make commercial sense.

I feel some of the comment epitomise whats wrong with the day and age. When people don't get their own way they attack the people and tarnish them with the same brush, similar to Brexit - "FA old farts" "little Englanders". Its childish.

If you look at Rob Smiths - Press Associations Tweet, it included a graphic of the voters - the opinion was across the board - coaches, refs, councilors didnt want it. Not just "old farts"

I agree with you re Brexit comments FWIW

But what is the "commercial" reason for not selling Wembley?

It was built on finance on which the FA is probably paying ££££tens of millions in interest each year. After those costs and maintenance costs, I expect the next revenue generated from hosting the odd Robbie Williams concert is tiny.

It will probably take decades to generate £600m in net revenue, by which time kids will probably all be playing with hover boards instead of footballs anyway.

What's not commercial about turning a weak, volatile long-term revenue stream into a huge guaranteed lump sum that's more useful now?

This. Especially when you consider that in 12 years the planet will be dead... if you believe the media...

Take Me Home MAF

Quote from: Statto on October 18, 2018, 01:33:14 PM
Quote from: Take Me Home MAF on October 18, 2018, 01:22:17 PM
Nothing to do with Fulham, this was a bad deal with no sustainable reason to sell, I opposed it as it did not make commercial sense.

I feel some of the comment epitomise whats wrong with the day and age. When people don't get their own way they attack the people and tarnish them with the same brush, similar to Brexit - "FA old farts" "little Englanders". Its childish.

If you look at Rob Smiths - Press Associations Tweet, it included a graphic of the voters - the opinion was across the board - coaches, refs, councilors didnt want it. Not just "old farts"

I agree with you re Brexit comments FWIW

But what is the "commercial" reason for not selling Wembley?

It was built on finance on which the FA is probably paying ££££tens of millions in interest each year. After those costs and maintenance costs, I expect the next revenue generated from hosting the odd Robbie Williams concert is tiny.

It will probably take decades to generate £600m in net revenue, by which time kids will probably all be playing with hover boards instead of footballs anyway.

What's not commercial about turning a weak, volatile long-term revenue stream into a huge guaranteed lump sum that's more useful now?

Quite simply, why did Khan buy Fulham, and subsequently why did he want to buy Wembley -

-Firstly, he purchased Fulham to get his foot in the door with the FA, nothing to do with liking us or football. In essence so he could start lobbying to get an NFL franchise in London with use of the stadium, or the Jags on a more permanent move.

-Secondly, it became apparent to Khan that Wembley was a colossus and the FA directors, through conversations, wanted to get it off their hands, quite simply because they are bricking it about the current renewal rates of club wembley and minor work that needs doing.

You have to ask yourself, why did Khan want Wembley, and the reason is because it is a miss-run commercial colossus. There is a reason why big artists perform at Wembley, and why large boxing events are being held there instead of the London Stadium. Its size, nothing comes close.

Wembley is 5 years from being paid off, and then can provide a sustainable commercial stream to pass to the Football Foundation  for years to come. Not just jam today.

The FA will have to suck it up, get the right talent in to support, and make this work. If this means having to pay for the upgrades and that having impacts on the balance sheet for a bit, then the way it is

Not digging into the fact Sport England would have had their investment paid back because of the sale, the figure put on it by Khan was embarrassing when its broken down.

Lighthouse

Quote from: Take Me Home MAF on October 18, 2018, 01:22:17 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on October 17, 2018, 03:24:26 PM
Great shame as it feels as if the little Englander comments and criticism he received have worn him down. The game could have done with his money and influence. Instead we are still left with a bunch of self serving blowhards running and ruining the game.

Nothing to do with Fulham, this was a bad deal with no sustainable reason to sell, I opposed it as it did not make commercial sense.

I feel some of the comment epitomise whats wrong with the day and age. When people don't get their own way they attack the people and tarnish them with the same brush, similar to Brexit - "FA old farts" "little Englanders". Its childish.

If you look at Rob Smiths - Press Associations Tweet, it included a graphic of the voters - the opinion was across the board - coaches, refs, councilors didnt want it. Not just "old farts"

I don't agree that it was a bad deal on any level other than Khan was paying too much as many of the experts have commented. You say the opinion was across the board and name all the same self serving jobsworth. I have no idea what this has to do with Brexit other than the fact that clearly people were not well informed enough to make such a decision.  What is a fact is there were many comments attacking the idea that Wembley should be sold to an American who didn't understand the purity of the English National game and would open the stadium up to awful money making ideas other than Football. It did and still does feel very uncomfortable that we are run by such opinion. My apologies if you think any opinion that doesn't agree with yours is childish.  But that is just life.
The above IS NOT A LEGAL DOCUMENT. It is an opinion.

We may yet hear the horse talk.

I can stand my own despair but not others hope


Holders

One forms an opinion on the information presented to one at the time; in the light of new information, or it subsequently emerges that one had been misinformed, one has have every right to revisit one's decision and this is what Khan has sensibly done.
Non sumus statione ferriviaria

alfie

Quote from: Take Me Home MAF on October 18, 2018, 01:48:31 PM
Quote from: Statto on October 18, 2018, 01:33:14 PM
Quote from: Take Me Home MAF on October 18, 2018, 01:22:17 PM
Nothing to do with Fulham, this was a bad deal with no sustainable reason to sell, I opposed it as it did not make commercial sense.

I feel some of the comment epitomise whats wrong with the day and age. When people don't get their own way they attack the people and tarnish them with the same brush, similar to Brexit - "FA old farts" "little Englanders". Its childish.

If you look at Rob Smiths - Press Associations Tweet, it included a graphic of the voters - the opinion was across the board - coaches, refs, councilors didnt want it. Not just "old farts"

I agree with you re Brexit comments FWIW

But what is the "commercial" reason for not selling Wembley?

It was built on finance on which the FA is probably paying ££££tens of millions in interest each year. After those costs and maintenance costs, I expect the next revenue generated from hosting the odd Robbie Williams concert is tiny.

It will probably take decades to generate £600m in net revenue, by which time kids will probably all be playing with hover boards instead of footballs anyway.

What's not commercial about turning a weak, volatile long-term revenue stream into a huge guaranteed lump sum that's more useful now?

Quite simply, why did Khan buy Fulham, and subsequently why did he want to buy Wembley -

-Firstly, he purchased Fulham to get his foot in the door with the FA, nothing to do with liking us or football. In essence so he could start lobbying to get an NFL franchise in London with use of the stadium, or the Jags on a more permanent move.

-Secondly, it became apparent to Khan that Wembley was a colossus and the FA directors, through conversations, wanted to get it off their hands, quite simply because they are bricking it about the current renewal rates of club wembley and minor work that needs doing.

You have to ask yourself, why did Khan want Wembley, and the reason is because it is a miss-run commercial colossus. There is a reason why big artists perform at Wembley, and why large boxing events are being held there instead of the London Stadium. Its size, nothing comes close.

Wembley is 5 years from being paid off, and then can provide a sustainable commercial stream to pass to the Football Foundation  for years to come. Not just jam today.

The FA will have to suck it up, get the right talent in to support, and make this work. If this means having to pay for the upgrades and that having impacts on the balance sheet for a bit, then the way it is

Not digging into the fact Sport England would have had their investment paid back because of the sale, the figure put on it by Khan was embarrassing when its broken down.
You seem to know a lot about Khans intentions and why he wanted to do this or that, or maybe you are just making up your own reasons without known facts.
Story of my life
"I was looking back to see if she was looking back to see if i was looking back at her"
Sadly she wasn't

Statto

I don't know enough about it to argue a lot with Take Me Home MAF.

If the FA are "mis-running" it then that seems to me a good reason to sell, because they're not going to magically, overnight become better managers of something they can't currently manage.

And if "the figure put on it by Khan was embarrassing" then people should have been pushing for a higher offer, rather then objecting to the sale altogether. Most of the objections I read were to a private individual, and a foreigner, owning the national stadium, rather then objections to the level of his offer.


toshes mate

As far as I am aware the FA had provisionally accepted Khan's bid in principle, that is the notion of selling Wembley as a fundraiser for English football generally whilst retaining their interest in Club Wembley as an annual source of considerable income.  The FA Council Vote was a requirement in the whole negotiating process which may have required revisiting once negotiations had been concluded.  It is possible, even probable, that Khan's original intelligence on the matter was the FA as a whole would welcome the chance to inject much needed funding to its grass roots since that was a general accepted analysis of the Lancaster Gate dilemma.  What no one anticipated, within the FA or the media, was the level of rejection to the very idea of selling Wembley, in the absence of any other ready made solutions to the funding issues.  It is not as if the FA have had no time to consider alternatives.  Khan has simply determined that he can do better things with his money than wait around for the FA to come to its senses, which, in all probability isn't going to happen very soon.

Take Me Home MAF

#39
I would have been less opposed to the sale if Khan came in with a bid with a more realistic figure. Once the FA had paid the Sport England investment back after they breached the agreement with the sale, and paid other remaining creditors, there was not a lot left over for this laughable proposal of what to do with the money.

Lighthouse - what I was saying with Brexit, is there is now a tendency to start labeling people with differing views - remoaners, gammons etc. My observation was that having a differing with view on the sale prompted the labels on this forum as - old farts, little englanders etc. Which is unjust.

Alfie - I would love to hear a better rationale why Khan purchased our club in 2013. It was obvious from the outset what the intentions were. He has not failed, as the Jags are now a regular fixture in the capital, but he did not factor in the during that period Levy would install an NFL pitch at the Sours new ground. The dream of a London based franchise did take a dent on Wednesday.