Who else thinks Odoi and Seri should start?

[hongkongfulham]

I dont think your a lone voice on Odoi. If anything I know of only maybe one or two other posters who agree with me that Odoi should not be at CB.

I agree. Said in another thread that Ream should be given the chance alongside Mawson, at least until January.

As much as I admire Odoi for his commitment and application and his tenacity on the pitch over 90 minutes.
If we are to survive and stay up, we need an alternative at CB, if not with immediate effect, certainly by January. Which in some ways is a shame because he shows he cares which is more than I can say for one or two others so far.
He may prove me wrong, but I feel we need a step up in quality one way or another.
He is not an orthodox centre back, he has adjusted as well as he can, and all credit to him for that, but he is not a natural.

Think this is spot on. Desire and attitude never in question, but his versatility is adverse to our need for a tailor made CB.

Regarding Seri, we all know he was poor against chelsea, however I saw enough of him at the start of the year that I think he will be huge for us. Court case may be a factor but agree that he needs to improve. If he plays poorly this evening then dropping him is probably justified.

[Neutral Zone Ultra]

I dont think your a lone voice on Odoi. If anything I know of only maybe one or two other posters who agree with me that Odoi should not be at CB.

One of whom is me

[Neutral Zone Ultra]

As much as I love Odoi I'm sorry but I just don't think he's good enough for CB. It worked in the Championship to an extent because we were up against inferior offences where there was less pressure on him and thus allowed him to play the ball well, which, admittedly, he usually does, and because we kept the ball. From what I've seen of him in the Prem, yes he's had his good moments, but I just see a lot of mistakes in him, such as his failed offside trap against Liverpool, getting bullied aerially by Callum Wilson against Bournemouth, his pass to Seri against the scum (which I partly blame the goal for), and in general it just doesn't fill me with confidence seeing a 5'10" CB in such a physical league. The problem we have is that Mawson can't play RCB as seen against Watford, and must play on the left, which leaves a choice of Odoi, Chambers and Fosu-Mensah (he played there for Palace last season) as our RCB options. Everyone seems intent on wanting Chambers in the midfield (understandably, given he's done reasonably well there), and Fosu-Mensah has struggled in his natural position so far for us, so unless people agree with me and MJG that Chambers should be moved back to his natural position of RCB then Odoi it is I suppose. A lot depends on who Claudio sees as our best CDM once they're all fit, which in my opinion is Anguissa, who I think will come good.

As for Seri, I still believe he has plenty of talent, and I don't like this scapegoating of him that certain posters on here like to do after a game, however I do think he needs to improve. The question is how he fits into the team, is he a CDM, CM etc. which is tricky. I think for the time being leave him in there, all this talk of banishing him to the reserves etc. is not constructive at all, but I think he needs to learn to communicate better with the defense so he can offer them more support and protection.

[Denver Fulham]

There's no one to start over Seri atm. You want Johansen or McDonald instead of him? No thanks.

Even if Anguissa is healthy and you play him instead, that's a pretty limited passing range centrally between him and Chambers.

There's no question Seri needs to play better, but I think he's been called out for his mistakes with his contributions minimized more than others.

[AnOldBrownie]

Starting to feel like a bit of a lone voice here. I know both have made mistakes but they add things their replacements don't have.

Odoi is our quickest centre back so can cover players. Seri is our best passer alongside Cairney and he also puts a lot of tackles in, I'm afraid Anguissa as of yet puts fewer tackles in and McDonald is always very safe with the ball, rarely plays decisive passes. Johansen offers bite but yet to fully make the step up, I hope he will.

1.  I feel you on Odoi
2.  Seri does not put in a lot of tackles.  He makes a lot of tackle ATTEMPTS, which is different.   He's defensively a liability and honestly I don't see how his passing is much better than a non-tired Anguissa.    We won't miss Seri's corner taking either.

Regarding Seri, we all know he was poor against chelsea, however I saw enough of him at the start of the year that I think he will be huge for us. Court case may be a factor but agree that he needs to improve. If he plays poorly this evening then dropping him is probably justified.

A few people keep bringing up his form early in the season.   I assume they mean against Burnley and Brighton, because those were the only two games I remember him being close to controlling the midfield.

What top 10 side did he shine against?

...
...

How did he do in the Cardiff game?  Huddersfield?   Two teams with midfields Seri "should" dominate.

People were then saying having Cairney back would open up things for Seri.   Well?

If $$$ is the only reason he's going to put in the shift then he shouldn't be playing.

[Twig]

Odoi - absolutely a starter,
Seri - bench for me.

[Twig]

I just want to say that this is a really positive thread, wherein posters (at least mostly) argue without the need to brand anyone player as crap. It is refreshing to see, so please keep it going!

Just read this and could not agree more. So refreshing that everyone is being positive, even when they don't favour starting one or both of these players.
For the record I recognise Seri has potential but would bench him until he can sort out his confidence or shake off the contract distractions, or whatever is causing him to underachieve.

[HV71]

I just want to say that this is a really positive thread, wherein posters (at least mostly) argue without the need to brand anyone player as crap. It is refreshing to see, so please keep it going!

Just read this and could not agree more. So refreshing that everyone is being positive, even when they don't favour starting one or both of these players.
For the record I recognise Seri has potential but would bench him until he can sort out his confidence or shake off the contract distractions, or whatever is causing him to underachieve.

Totally agree

[Bassey the warrior]

Depending on whether Mawson can be coached to play as a right sided centre half so that MLM can play as a LCB, I'd keep Odoi in because we don't have another natural right sided CB, and it seems that Chambers is a holding midfielder for the foreseeable future. Either move Chambers back into that spot immediately or wait until Jan if we're not going to coach Mawson into adjusting.

Seri yes I'd also keep him in. He's become a scapegoat for people who aren't willing to look at what he does in games and instead chastise him for other players mistakes and make up various excuses as to why they wouldn't play him. "He can't tackle" but makes the second most tackles in the Chelsea game and joint most in the Southampton game, "he gives the ball away all the time" makes the most amount of passes out of everyone in our team in the Southampton and Chelsea games. You don't see anyone crucifying Chambers for twatting the ball 50 yards down the line to nowhere but heaven forbid Seri tries to pass to a Fulham player and doesn't make it because suddenly he's not got his heart in it or he's a waste of money or however else someone wants to describe it.

I think you're spot on here. Seri is being penalised because of his transfer fee. We should ignore that and consider what he brings to the team versus what potential replacements would bring. With that in mind it's clear no one brings the same skill set.

I'm hoping Anguissa will improve but at the moment he's not a starter.

[Bassey the warrior]

I'd like to point out that Seri is the third highest player in the squad for successful tackles. Fourth highest for pass conversion. Highest on key passes. This really reinforces my point. He's there on merit and he will only improve with more game time.

Source: https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/170/Show/En

[davew]

I just want to say that this is a really positive thread, wherein posters (at least mostly) argue without the need to brand anyone player as crap. It is refreshing to see, so please keep it going!

Just read this and could not agree more. So refreshing that everyone is being positive, even when they don't favour starting one or both of these players.
For the record I recognise Seri has potential but would bench him until he can sort out his confidence or shake off the contract distractions, or whatever is causing him to underachieve.

I think we are being positive about Odoi starting and mainly positive that Seri should not be playing!!

[davew]

I'd like to point out that Seri is the third highest player in the squad for successful tackles. Fourth highest for pass conversion. Highest on key passes. This really reinforces my point. He's there on merit and he will only improve with more game time.

Source: https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/170/Show/En

That is a real shock to me, just exposes how bad everybody else is then!! Don't always believe stat's though which is why we have signed quite a few of our players in recent years which we shouldn't have, perhaps including Seri?

[St. Andrews White]

Odoi decent but would rather a better starter, always has a mistake in him; RB be better in my eyes with a different CB.
Perhaps Bryan - MLM - Mawson - Odoi

Seri a good player who's not hit early heights yet. Would love to see Anguissa given a go under CR, could be the player we need if his work ethic improves, but if not would rather start Seri for what he offers

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[Bassey the warrior]

I'd like to point out that Seri is the third highest player in the squad for successful tackles. Fourth highest for pass conversion. Highest on key passes. This really reinforces my point. He's there on merit and he will only improve with more game time.

Source: https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/170/Show/En

That is a real shock to me, just exposes how bad everybody else is then!! Don't always believe stat's though which is why we have signed quite a few of our players in recent years which we shouldn't have, perhaps including Seri?

These are stats for his performances for Fulham, so his performances for Nice are irrelevant. Whether it shows he is doing well or other people doing badly, it comes to the same thing: he is deserving of his starting place.

Also, you can't disbelieve stats as these are facts. You could argue they are misleading. If I'd just presented the ball retention stats you could argue this doesn't say whether they are making forward passes or just safe sideways passes, but he is making forward passes as the key passes stat shows. He is also making lots of tackles.

[Sting of the North]

I'd like to point out that Seri is the third highest player in the squad for successful tackles. Fourth highest for pass conversion. Highest on key passes. This really reinforces my point. He's there on merit and he will only improve with more game time.

Source: https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/170/Show/En

That is a real shock to me, just exposes how bad everybody else is then!! Don't always believe stat's though which is why we have signed quite a few of our players in recent years which we shouldn't have, perhaps including Seri?

Contrary to what I wrote earlier about the positive spirit and argumentation of this thread, it is difficult to see what this adds to the discussion. Perhaps you can elaborate as to why you believe that these particular stats are not to be believed? Or why they do not matter when evaluating Seri's contribution to the team? Or maybe add what Seri's competition would bring to the table?

That way an actual discussion outside of "this player is bad" - "no he's not, he's good" can be had.

Just a thought!

[davew]

I'd like to point out that Seri is the third highest player in the squad for successful tackles. Fourth highest for pass conversion. Highest on key passes. This really reinforces my point. He's there on merit and he will only improve with more game time.

Source: https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/170/Show/En

That is a real shock to me, just exposes how bad everybody else is then!! Don't always believe stat's though which is why we have signed quite a few of our players in recent years which we shouldn't have, perhaps including Seri?

These are stats for his performances for Fulham, so his performances for Nice are irrelevant. Whether it shows he is doing well or other people doing badly, it comes to the same thing: he is deserving of his starting place.

Also, you can't disbelieve stats as these are facts. You could argue they are misleading. If I'd just presented the ball retention stats you could argue this doesn't say whether they are making forward passes or just safe sideways passes, but he is making forward passes as the key passes stat shows. He is also making lots of tackles.

If he is playing tonight, I will concentrate my attentions on just what he is doing and not watch the match as a whole, as an accountant (retired) I think I might just be capable of doing my own statistics and comparing them to what the experts come up with. So how many people are involved in producing all of these statistics in just 1 match covering all the players and the type of different statistics that seem to be available, must be mind boggling? Sorry to say that based on what I have seen which is every match this season and some several times as I have taped them, I do not rate him good enough (up to now) as a PL player, thank God he has made so many tackles otherwise we would be in real trouble with a relegation issue and probably also more goals conceded, that would take some beating though! Let's hope we win tonight and if he plays he (and others) put in a better performance and I can put down my pen and paper by half time and enjoy the victory! Just an after thought, where is he in the stat's for passes to the opposition and number of times he has lost the ball?

[davew]

Even Chambers overall rating is higher than Seri, says it all really! Just studied all the stat's from the link you provided, so 2 assists out of the 12 this season in 14 games is acceptable then, anyway I am more concerned that he starts to show that he is worthy to wear a Fulham shirt by showing more desire and ability and whatever he cost us will allow us to move on and talk about somebody else. Perhaps Ryan Sess, he has been 1 of our worst players according to the stat's (lol)!

[Sting of the North]

Even Chambers overall rating is higher than Seri, says it all really! Just studied all the stat's from the link you provided, so 2 assists out of the 12 this season in 14 games is acceptable then, anyway I am more concerned that he starts to show that he is worthy to wear a Fulham shirt by showing more desire and ability and whatever he cost us will allow us to move on and talk about somebody else. Perhaps Ryan Sess, he has been 1 of our worst players according to the stat's (lol)!

Does it say it all? So who replaces Seri then? Since McDonald, Johansen, Cairney and Anguissa are all below Seri in the overall ratings. Maybe you want to play Fabri in midfield, since he is the only higher rated player that is not normally a starter.

[davew]

I'd like to point out that Seri is the third highest player in the squad for successful tackles. Fourth highest for pass conversion. Highest on key passes. This really reinforces my point. He's there on merit and he will only improve with more game time.

Source: https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/170/Show/En

That is a real shock to me, just exposes how bad everybody else is then!! Don't always believe stat's though which is why we have signed quite a few of our players in recent years which we shouldn't have, perhaps including Seri?

Contrary to what I wrote earlier about the positive spirit and argumentation of this thread, it is difficult to see what this adds to the discussion. Perhaps you can elaborate as to why you believe that these particular stats are not to be believed? Or why they do not matter when evaluating Seri's contribution to the team? Or maybe add what Seri's competition would bring to the table?

That way an actual discussion outside of "this player is bad" - "no he's not, he's good" can be had.

Just a thought!

It may well add nothing to the debate on this thread which was titled who should play!!! Quoting stat's doesn't either really, we are bottom of the table or we were the last time I looked and heading for a record number of goals conceded in PL history, what I was trying to convey was my own opinion of a player who "supposedly" has quality (unseen up until now...by me anyway..except in 2 matches). Perhaps I have been watching the House of Commons debates too much lately, especially this week, I think he should leave in the next window or maybe remain depending on what he does in the remaining 2018 fixtures.  Anyway enjoy tonight's match!!

[davew]

Even Chambers overall rating is higher than Seri, says it all really! Just studied all the stat's from the link you provided, so 2 assists out of the 12 this season in 14 games is acceptable then, anyway I am more concerned that he starts to show that he is worthy to wear a Fulham shirt by showing more desire and ability and whatever he cost us will allow us to move on and talk about somebody else. Perhaps Ryan Sess, he has been 1 of our worst players according to the stat's (lol)!

Does it say it all? So who replaces Seri then? Since McDonald, Johansen, Cairney and Anguissa are all below Seri in the overall ratings. Maybe you want to play Fabri in midfield, since he is the only higher rated player that is not normally a starter.

We have nobody in the current squad to replace him according to the stat's, so much game time have the guys played compared with Seri, think I know the answer to that question without referring back to the stat's! Apart from Cairney, there is nobody in the current squad which is why we will need to spend again in the next window or just accept that the results are not going to get any or much better! Off to prepare to watch the match now hopefully on some internet stream/firestick stream available, otherwise back to the GJ commentary which is more depressing than reading my own comments (lol)!