and another thing.... referees

[nose returns]

just watched MOTD
Apparently we score a good goal at liverpool and it is ruled out, ok it was close and somethink it was off side but for me it was OK
BUT liverpool, have salah in a well offside position, linesman in perfect line and he is allowed to score, and salah was offside more than once and had no flag... np doubt in mind there is something mighty fishy about the officials

and our game
seri manages to win a ball cleanly, foul
seconds later they take out not one, but two of our players.. definite fouls, nothing given
anguisa's first yellow was really harsh and the second wasn't even close to be a foul, rashford falls awkwardley and akes a meal of his incompetence and lee probate, the man with no integrity, the man that is so lacking in credibility I wouldn't ask him to look after an empty shopping bag for me, gives a second yellow.. it's always 12 men at old trafford and against liverpool. you do not have to believe me but  nonetheless it is true.
and by the way, having looked again at the penalty we got, I think it was a clear foul... that is why probate had to send one of our players off straight afterwards because  h forgot you are not supposed to give the away team a penalty at old trafford even when they are three down

however, seeing seri and anguisa again being quite so pathetic is alarming.

[MaidenheadMick]

Cannot disagree with any of that. Lee Probert has and always will have an underlying hatred of Fulham. God only knows why. You look back at all the games he's refereed Fulham ( and it's quite a few I can tell you ) and I doubt very much if you could find a viictory in that lot. How the match referee assessor cannot see his bias towards Man Utd today is quite simply laughable. Not saying we deserved anything as we didn't, but at least we should be given the right of a fair crack at it. With Probert in charge that was never going to happen.

[SP]

Was going to post the same last night, it's getting tedious now, we need VAR.

[The Old Count]

Even Mark Lawrenson said Probert was awful. He pretty much said what Nose pointed out about the fouls as well.

[Watford_fc]

We had a player sent off for pretty much the same thing last week at Leicester - mainly because the player tackled made such a fuss/meal of it and his team-mates rushed in demanding a red card (even though Leicester were 2-0 up and this was in injury time..)

If anything your guy tried to pull out of the tackle - as suggested its probably because the ref gave you a soft penaltly and Jose/Man U players had a good old moan about it.

[toshes mate]

just watched MOTD
Apparently we score a good goal at liverpool and it is ruled out, ok it was close and somethink it was off side but for me it was OK
BUT liverpool, have salah in a well offside position, linesman in perfect line and he is allowed to score, and salah was offside more than once and had no flag... np doubt in mind there is something mighty fishy about the officials

and our game
seri manages to win a ball cleanly, foul
seconds later they take out not one, but two of our players.. definite fouls, nothing given
anguisa's first yellow was really harsh and the second wasn't even close to be a foul, rashford falls awkwardley and akes a meal of his incompetence and lee probate, the man with no integrity, the man that is so lacking in credibility I wouldn't ask him to look after an empty shopping bag for me, gives a second yellow.. it's always 12 men at old trafford and against liverpool. you do not have to believe me but  nonetheless it is true.
and by the way, having looked again at the penalty we got, I think it was a clear foul... that is why probate had to send one of our players off straight afterwards because  h forgot you are not supposed to give the away team a penalty at old trafford even when they are three down

A good summary.  Probert, like all other 'privileged' employees, knows he is onto a good thing and will not bite the hand that feeds him.  Big money rules the game.  It is football through and through these days.  Sadly.

[grandad]

Every season, no matter which division, the standard of the officials gets worse & worse. Something is not right with the situation. You would think that with TV evidence the officials would be found out but nothing is done. There is big money at stake & perhaps some of it is finding its way into certain pockets.
What has to change is that the officials must be asked to explain their obvious wrong decisions. They are currently so protected by their PGMO Ltd who should be thoroughly investigated.

[Watford_fc]

You would think that with TV evidence the officials would be found out but nothing is done. d.

That doesn't stop players cheating and managers encouraging it all - "all part of the game and all that" as the pundits say.

Maybe VAR might help but you will still get debatable decisions.

I also agree the officials ought to be allowed to come out and explain their decisions (mind you with some you'd be asking them all night!) - as players and managers are allowed to question them in post match interviews when they are often under pressure/stressed so naturally going to hit out at something they don't understand.

Might help with the "respect campaign" if decisions are made clear rather.

Like in rugby - you might not agree with something given but you can understand from the officials why it was given but then sport does enocourage respect/disclipline etc.

[nose returns]

You would think that with TV evidence the officials would be found out but nothing is done. d.

That doesn't stop players cheating and managers encouraging it all - "all part of the game and all that" as the pundits say.

Maybe VAR might help but you will still get debatable decisions.

I also agree the officials ought to be allowed to come out and explain their decisions (mind you with some you'd be asking them all night!) - as players and managers are allowed to question them in post match interviews when they are often under pressure/stressed so naturally going to hit out at something they don't understand.

Might help with the "respect campaign" if decisions are made clear rather.

Like in rugby - you might not agree with something given but you can understand from the officials why it was given but then sport does enocourage respect/disclipline etc.

ia gree that the players are also disgraceful and the vast majority of managers reprehensible in encouraging blatant cheating. diving and feigning injury are a cancer on the gae and the hoding in the box ridiculous.

however my issue with refs is that whislst a few are just poor and makee human errors that tend to even out, probate is one of a reasoanbly large number that have no problem having favourites and ones he discriminates against. if fulham were any other business probate would be charged with discrimination, as wood oliver, dean, durso, halsey and poll...OR they could just favour lareger clubs in red and totenham all of whom seem to get the rub of every decision. refereeing does not even out, it is rotten to the core... it compares to lance armstrong the IOC committee and fifa leadership, for the record i doubt the FA or the prem are big on integrity, the gravy train is just to seductive for honesty.

[Watford_fc]

Yes I do agree there is greater pressure from the bigger teams on officials from their managers and even fans!

Seems before every big match there is a comment or discussion on who the ref is and what he did in a previous game...

Trouble is there are so few officials it seems that the same old names who might not be very good or easily influenced get matches each week.

Most appear to be unfit as well in my view but that is a different matter - do they need to encourage younger refs to come through?

And yes like so many in football offcials are protected and don't need to explain themselves.

[Woolly Mammoth]

Players cheat, Managers cheat, Referees cheat, and they call it the beautiful game.

[ealex40]

I just checked Lee Probert's career record  when  officiating the matches of every club in the league.

He's refereed 21 of our games. We've won 6, drawn 6 and lost 9 times. We've been Yellow carded 29 times, 2 straight Red cards, 1 sent off for two Yellows and been penalized for 4 penalty kicks. Our opponents in those 21 games had 25 Yellows, 2 sent off for two Yellows and were also awarded 4 penalties. So you can see we were not that unfairly treated.

When he refereed Man United's 13 matches, they won 10 and drew 3, lost none. They received 11 YC, 1 RC and conceded 2 penalties. Their opponents had 17 YC, 0 RC and had 2 sent off for two yellows and conceded 1 penalty.

Apart from the statistics, I've always been wary of Probert. He once sent off Hangeland, early in our 1-3 home loss to Sunderland and this season awarded 2 pens to Brighton in the 2-2 draw.

[Forever Fulham]

I just checked Lee Probert's career record  when  officiating the matches of every club in the league.

He's refereed 21 of our games. We've won 6, drawn 6 and lost 9 times. We've been Yellow carded 29 times, 2 straight Red cards, 1 sent off for two Yellows and been penalized for 4 penalty kicks. Our opponents in those 21 games had 25 Yellows, 2 sent off for two Yellows and were also awarded 4 penalties. So you can see we were not that unfairly treated.

When he refereed Man United's 13 matches, they won 10 and drew 3, lost none. They received 11 YC, 1 RC and conceded 2 penalties. Their opponents had 17 YC, 0 RC and had 2 sent off for two yellows and conceded 1 penalty.

Apart from the statistics, I've always been wary of Probert. He once sent off Hangeland, early in our 1-3 home loss to Sunderland and this season awarded 2 pens to Brighton in the 2-2 draw.

Statistics can be deceiving, ealex40.  Some yellows and reds aren't that consequential when the score is already, say, 3-0.  The uncalled offsides that produces a goal is infinitely more consequential than a swan dive or hand ball call in midfield. 

There will always be affirmative bias in this league when a huge storied club plays a 'small' club team.  As prior posters have commented above, a club like ManU is an industry onto itself, a major business, which sells papers, puts eyeballs in front of TV sets for advertisers to buy around, furthers the careers of sportscasters, commentators, pundits, reporters, and on and on.  And in a sense occupies one of the select chairs of a fellowship that carries the flag for the country, its reputation.  When a small club that's struggling pulls out a decision or win against a major, it upsets the natural order of things.  Causes panic.  Unsettles the water.  Not to say that referees deliberately, intentionally steer judgment calls towards the powerful and against the less powerful.  Not intentionally, no.   But the power of suggestion.  Oh, yes.  They compartmentalise.  They rationalise.  They convince themselves in the moment that the great Salah was on not off.  Or that the fall was from real contact, not a dive.  In boxing there's an old saw: To beat the champion, you have to knock him out.  Or at least knock him down a few times.  ManU is one of those opponents you can't leave the outcome to chance, to the vagaries of subjective judgments.  I come away from that game thinking even with the poor refereeing removed from the equation, we would have still lost, but it would have been more respectable.

We were never going to beat that team.  Not at this stage, sitting in 20th, the trap door threatening.  A tie would have been joyous.  We have to beat the lower third often and the midtable teams occasionally.  To survive, to get our sea legs for next season, and a refined roster for the Tinkerman.  Can't complain about losing to ManU if we can't beat the teams in 18th and 19th place...

[bobbo]

He's a homer . Takes the easy options on debatable situations. So that he gets less stick. God help us that powers that be have seen fit to make him a prem league ref, just tells what a state they're in with officials.

[MikeTheCubed]

Although the performance of Lee "the Hunchback" Probert was somewhat inconsequential to the result (Let's be honest, Man Utd went down to first gear once they were 3-0 up), he is nonetheless one of the officials I write off our chances with beforehand. I therefore had a tiny bet of £2.50 for a player to be sent off during the match at 6/1, thanks for the £15 Lee!

[bobbo]

Although the performance of Lee "the Hunchback" Probert was somewhat inconsequential to the result (Let's be honest, Man Utd went down to first gear once they were 3-0 up), he is nonetheless one of the officials I write off our chances with beforehand. I therefore had a tiny bet of £2.50 for a player to be sent off during the match at 6/1, thanks for the £15 Lee!

oh mike I agree it was a big ask to be MU but didn't need his inept performance to help the . Someone aught to tell him he's out of the tunnel - think about it.

[Woolly Mammoth]

He's a homer . Takes the easy options on debatable situations. So that he gets less stick. God help us that powers that be have seen fit to make him a prem league ref, just tells what a state they're in with officials.

There are a lot of homers on the Referees Panel for all the reasons you have stated and a few more.

[Bill2]

Just watched the full 90 and I have realised why Anguissa was sent off, we had started playing better and got goal. Well that is not allowed so he had to do something and the easiest option was to send someone off. Looking at the sending off at no time did he get his yellow card out and then show the red, was it not shown on TV or in his haste he got it wrong. Probably looking forward to his conversation and pat on the back with Jose. Also if Mitro was offside for the goal at Liverpool, Mata certainly was for the cross for their third goal.