Why it’s not working

[colinwhite]

Matt ,what worries me is that Ranierri seems to have played very offensively in the 2nd half against united (with some success),and went for it in the first half against West ham ,pushing many players forward so that we had no defensive numerical superiority (a basic principle of defendingin any footballing culture but especially in italy) for both of their successful transitions from which they scored. Even before they scored it could hav e been slavisa in the dugout and i couldnt help thinking that even our new manager thinks that attack is the best form of defense with this group of players.
For both goals our full backs were too far forward and thus our Central midfielders couldnt be in 2 places at once to pick up both of their goalscorers.
I dont think we have missed fredricks that much but his pace and abillity to get back at speed enabled us to cover up a major weakness in our defense even last year-  that we dont defend that well on the whole,and posssession of the ball was a huge part of  our defensive strategy.

[RaySmith]

You're right Colin, it was all out attack, and we looked sure to score - except it's Fulham, and were exposed at back, which is surprising  I suppose, under CR, and our defenders weren't able to get back in time.

Fred was one who might have got  back into position with his speed, but it looked naïve, anyway, gambling on scoring early, and it nearly came off. Except it didn't.

But we showed how we could dominate play in that first twenty mins, and  There din't seem much difference betwen the teams te rest of the game, but WH looked more organised, and mre of a unit, better at defending and took their chances clinically.

But muchpositive for CR to build on I think.

[The Rock]

Our back 4 aren't good enough.

If we signed Everton, Wolves or Leicester's back 4 for 25m each that should solve the problem.

[Matt10]

Matt ,what worries me is that Ranierri seems to have played very offensively in the 2nd half against united (with some success),and went for it in the first half against West ham ,pushing many players forward so that we had no defensive numerical superiority (a basic principle of defendingin any footballing culture but especially in italy) for both of their successful transitions from which they scored. Even before they scored it could hav e been slavisa in the dugout and i couldnt help thinking that even our new manager thinks that attack is the best form of defense with this group of players.
For both goals our full backs were too far forward and thus our Central midfielders couldnt be in 2 places at once to pick up both of their goalscorers.
I dont think we have missed fredricks that much but his pace and abillity to get back at speed enabled us to cover up a major weakness in our defense even last year-  that we dont defend that well on the whole,and posssession of the ball was a huge part of  our defensive strategy.

I think Ranieri got some answers against Man United, and that was we are a good attacking team. I think he's established that. The problem is you can't be just a good attacking team without being able to put the ball into the back of the net. The numbers being pushed forward is much different than Slavisa's because our fullbacks do not overlap as much, instead, they tuck in dramatically and then try to cut out any transitions. Last year, they sprinted back to their assigned spot, and the focus was not to cut off transitions - that was done by Kmac or StefJo, who would stay central. It's very different than what we've seen the last couple of years because the centre midfielders cover the wing, that forces the outside back of the opposite side to tuck in further or the centre defender to raise the line. This is why we looked good, in spurts, against Man United. We moved our lines 5-10 yards up, which allowed Bryan to get higher up and tuck, while Seri and Anguissa could get wider right - and allow Schurrle to play in a roaming role, which paid off when it was his decisive pass to Kamara eventually setting up the PK.

My approach is too much change each match is a reaction versus a learned process. I think Ranieri is good at the consistency which will lead to a learned process versus just a reaction - like Slavisa did. We here have the luxury to react and change everything based on the result only. We here have the luxury to ignore the fact that we still have to work with the lads 6 other days through the week before truly judging them. I don't think the results can happen if you just keep changing A, B, C and D like it's been suggested, or like we have seen dramatically this season.

I'm just an opinion though and based on my opposition focus articles for Fulham Focus, I'm definitely still figuring out what Ranieri is going to do.

[colinwhite]

The kind of errors made by Seri for Leceisters goal and Bryan for West Hams second are positonal ,and they are 20/25 metres out of position. At that point you have to ask yourself if they even understand the basic premises of their respective roles. Of course we need continuity and simply changing the personel is not necessarily going to solve any problems , but a more fundamental strategy has to be to identify which players to use and then stick to it. I hope Ranierri is getting closer to this, but dont see that much evidence of it.

[MJG]

The kind of errors made by Seri for Leceisters goal and Bryan for West Hams second are positonal ,and they are 20/25 metres out of position. At that point you have to ask yourself if they even understand the basic premises of their respective roles. Of course we need continuity and simply changing the personel is not necessarily going to solve any problems , but a more fundamental strategy has to be to identify which players to use and then stick to it. I hope Ranierri is getting closer to this, but dont see that much evidence of it.

we went through Leicesters goal, if you are personally blaming him then I wonder do you think players should stay within a rigid five yards of their starting position and never cover when players are missing? Chambers was nowhere and arguably should have been in a deeper position than Seri, MLM should have been further back for a start.

[davew]

I don't think there is "so much wrong". Unfortunately, the results outweigh any kind of contextual logic to argue the points made. The West Ham match showed promise, but it's always one or two moments of being switched off that cost us dearly.

Cairney on the right hand side actually brought even more depth to our midfield. He holds onto the ball fantastically well, can tuck inside and be another anchor to create. He's close to Seri as well so they can work off eachother, which is exactly what was happening in the first 20 minutes of our onslaught on the West Ham goal.

Again, Ranieri's system is not built upon the outside mids/wingers to track back. The reason for this is so we can counter. Our centre mids will cover wings instead, this worked well all match.

I know guys want to talk about change, but that's just theory now. We also talk about consistency and being drilled in defensively. Well, if you take comments above and implement these changes, you're going against what will actually help the team - and that is consistency + chemistry. Sure, we didn't get the result, but there is not a whole lot wrong with our performance against West Ham. Two crucial mistakes from two defenders are what cost us. It's the mental toughness that needs to be worked on the most, the communication, those are the elements. Change personnel all you want as if this is FIFA video game, but it's the very basic fundamentals of being a team that we need to continue to build upon. It's there, there are sparks, but unfortunately, we pay attention to the glaring issues and lump that into a total write-off.

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I have also  thought our performances have improved under CR and maybe we aren't as terrible as everyone  says.

It's results that count, obviously - and we are bottom of the league -but  there is a need  not to panic, and try and  get continuity in the team, and I'm sure the manager wants this.

The way we played in the first twenty minutes against West Ham is significant I think, and although  we lost with two sloppily conceded goals against the run of play- hit on the break, West ham hardly had any more shots on our goal, nor was their much between the teams for the rest of the game, with WH sitting back and making it hard for us - if they'd been behind,they would have needed to come out, and we  would have had more chances.

I agree with Matt, that the mental side is very important, and even one win, and our players could suddenly become a yard faster, and less error prone.

Sorry to disagree, how many more chances did we need, we had plenty and still couldn't take 1 of them, West Ham didn't need to come out, they knew about our defensive weaknesses, they are clear to see week in and week out!

[BedsFFC]

Matt ,what worries me is that Ranierri seems to have played very offensively in the 2nd half against united (with some success),and went for it in the first half against West ham ,pushing many players forward so that we had no defensive numerical superiority (a basic principle of defendingin any footballing culture but especially in italy) for both of their successful transitions from which they scored. Even before they scored it could hav e been slavisa in the dugout and i couldnt help thinking that even our new manager thinks that attack is the best form of defense with this group of players.
For both goals our full backs were too far forward and thus our Central midfielders couldnt be in 2 places at once to pick up both of their goalscorers.
I dont think we have missed fredricks that much but his pace and abillity to get back at speed enabled us to cover up a major weakness in our defense even last year-  that we dont defend that well on the whole,and posssession of the ball was a huge part of  our defensive strategy.

I think Ranieri got some answers against Man United, and that was we are a good attacking team. I think he's established that.

Matt, I'm really not sure about that. Watching our last few games, I really think we struggle because, other than Mitro, we dont have a player or players that occupy the other side and make things happen. I think, once a team is ahead and want to sit on a lead, we're pretty easy to defend against. TC has moments of magic but he's fairly easy to keep out the game. We saw that in the Championship but the good thing down there was that whilst teams were wstching him, we had others that could hurt you.

At this moment in time, I dont belive that Sess has got it to dictate the game.

For all our obvious needs elswhere, I think we are in desperate need of some real final 3rd prowess to take the onus off Mitro anf give him a bit of time and space

[Matt10]

Matt ,what worries me is that Ranierri seems to have played very offensively in the 2nd half against united (with some success),and went for it in the first half against West ham ,pushing many players forward so that we had no defensive numerical superiority (a basic principle of defendingin any footballing culture but especially in italy) for both of their successful transitions from which they scored. Even before they scored it could hav e been slavisa in the dugout and i couldnt help thinking that even our new manager thinks that attack is the best form of defense with this group of players.
For both goals our full backs were too far forward and thus our Central midfielders couldnt be in 2 places at once to pick up both of their goalscorers.
I dont think we have missed fredricks that much but his pace and abillity to get back at speed enabled us to cover up a major weakness in our defense even last year-  that we dont defend that well on the whole,and posssession of the ball was a huge part of  our defensive strategy.

I think Ranieri got some answers against Man United, and that was we are a good attacking team. I think he's established that.

Matt, I'm really not sure about that. Watching our last few games, I really think we struggle because, other than Mitro, we dont have a player or players that occupy the other side and make things happen. I think, once a team is ahead and want to sit on a lead, we're pretty easy to defend against. TC has moments of magic but he's fairly easy to keep out the game. We saw that in the Championship but the good thing down there was that whilst teams were wstching him, we had others that could hurt you.

At this moment in time, I dont belive that Sess has got it to dictate the game.

For all our obvious needs elswhere, I think we are in desperate need of some real final 3rd prowess to take the onus off Mitro anf give him a bit of time and space

Really? If anything we became even harder to defend against when we conceded. We piled on the pressure.

This is where I question us sometimes. I just got done watching the match...again. We absolutely bombarded their half of the pitch. Seri, Chambers and Cairney tucked in, and holding to attack again. Bryan staying advanced, while Odoi closer to Chambers. Ream stayed furthest back to keep things calm to distribute to Mawson and Chambers.

I think, again, we're too focused on the result of the game and again...write off all the actual proof in the match that argues back.

I'm a logical man, show me where we didn't pressure West Ham. Considering how often we've let our head down after conceding, I thought we reacted exactly as we needed. The other team can drop back all they want. What separates us is not taking advantage of momentum by not converting our chances.

Like I said earlier, any logic or context gets wiped out when the result dominates our own mentality. Yeah, we lost 2-0, and in those moments of which we conceded should be addressed and scrutinized. However, it does not mean we should completely forget or discredit what actually happened outside of those moments. That is a theme that happens way too often here.

Edit: forgot to respond to your last part, yes I completely agree. We need some real final 3rd prowess, completely agree. I'm not going to bring up January because we have more matches to play still, so for now it's either those who showed that they can score in Schurrle and AK - it is what it is. When January hits, I definitely want someone clinical and a proven goal scorer.

[alfie]

Like I have said before, we are so quick to hammer our defence, yet when forwards miss chances, not much is said.

[YankeeJim]

All this speculation is really just that. There are seven poor teams in the Prem right now. The three who go cold in about March will drop. If we can stay close and then out together a decent run in the last dozen matches, we'll survive and hopefully spend some money WISELY next summer and then head for the Champions League. Or, mid table. LOL

[colinwhite]

MJG , of course there were other reasons for Seri getting caught out of position ,and probably Chambers should have been deeper too ,but given that he wasnt to get dragged so far over and sell yourself like Seri did ,didnt cover him in glory.That was poor from him.If as you suggest,he was aware of the danger,then he should have been delaying the opposition instead of getting a rush of blood to the head and diving in.
When trying to be more solid its really a question of mentally prioritising keeping tight. Unfortunately we seem to have far too many players for which this goes against the grain. Looking at the way we set up and played in the last game and a half you have to think that Ranierri is also starting to come to that conclusion.

[FulhamStu]

Some good points made but we can play great football, be tactically right in attack but if we leave our defence wide open, Premier League teams will continue to punish us.   If you watch the game again, notice how many players West Ham have in their box when we were attacking them.  Then watch how disorganised we are for the first goal and how our defence went completely missing for the 2nd.  You have to get these basics right as a priority.  All the great coaching and tactics is worth nothing if you are that easy to score against.

[MJG]

MJG , of course there were other reasons for Seri getting caught out of position ,and probably Chambers should have been deeper too ,but given that he wasnt to get dragged so far over and sell yourself like Seri did ,didnt cover him in glory.That was poor from him.If as you suggest,he was aware of the danger,then he should have been delaying the opposition instead of getting a rush of blood to the head and diving in.
When trying to be more solid its really a question of mentally prioritising keeping tight. Unfortunately we seem to have far too many players for which this goes against the grain. Looking at the way we set up and played in the last game and a half you have to think that Ranierri is also starting to come to that conclusion.

I love how hes getting the blame when mawson, marchend and chambers should have done better. I went through this argument last week and people will see what they want to see and blame or not blame I suppose. I'll watch next week to make sure they all stick to their required position and play like they are on a table football.

[toshes mate]

If anything we became even harder to defend against [v W Ham] when we conceded. We piled on the pressure.

This is where I question us sometimes. I just got done watching the match...again. We absolutely bombarded their half of the pitch. Seri, Chambers and Cairney tucked in, and holding to attack again. Bryan staying advanced, while Odoi closer to Chambers. Ream stayed furthest back to keep things calm to distribute to Mawson and Chambers.

I think, again, we're too focused on the result of the game and again...write off all the actual proof in the match that argues back.

I'm a logical man, show me where we didn't pressure West Ham. Considering how often we've let our head down after conceding, I thought we reacted exactly as we needed. The other team can drop back all they want. What separates us is not taking advantage of momentum by not converting our chances.

Like I said earlier, any logic or context gets wiped out when the result dominates our own mentality. Yeah, we lost 2-0, and in those moments of which we conceded should be addressed and scrutinized. However, it does not mean we should completely forget or discredit what actually happened outside of those moments. That is a theme that happens way too often here.

This squares with what I thought was good in our performance last weekend.  It was the first time under Ranieri I had observed players moving in an intelligent way in order to gain an advantage over the opposition which could/should have resulted in a goal.  Our problem was being caught cold on the counter, not so much a problem when players calmly respond as they have been disciplined to do, but fatal when panic sets in.  So for me it is about being disciplined and having composure at both ends of the pitch.  That can be achieved on the training ground.