what Fulham need to do now

[FulhamStu]

Everyone knew what the problem was before a ball was kicked. Even the club did and we bought in 5 defenders and an upgrade to the goalkeeper.  The problem was, only one of the defenders made us better and he has been mostly injured.

Where I have sympathy for people who dig out Tony Khan, is we really did not need to spend £50 million on midfield, we needed to spend £50 million on defence.

We did not need a World Cup winning striker, we need a World Cup winning centre half.

The joke is that even though we put all that money into midfield, our current prime tactic is to play 5 at the back and 3 up front.  You really could not make it up.

It's just not joined up thinking anywhere.  We have a clear process for recruitment, I am frankly ok with that and think Tony Khan gets wrongly abused in this respect.   Where I would be far more critical is in our apparent lack of strategy regarding team building.  Going from one type of coach to another one with entirely different methods.  A set of players with the potential ability to play procession football now trying to play a direct style.  What will happen next ?   Where is the continuity within the club.   We hired Magath to utilise the youth, that went well !!  Kit came in to calm the madness but was never a good enough coach or manager.   Slav did a great job in the championship but the way he set out to deliver in the Premier League was naive at best.

We are lacking direction and leadership.  Tony has loads of passion and I like him but the best signing we could make is to bring in a good director of football, someone who really knows the game.  Rigg was the right idea, he was just not good enough.  I would try and get Alardyce not as head coach but as director of football.  He knows what is required in the championship and how to survive in the Premier League.  This season is almost done, we need to plan for them future and then put that plan into practice.  I would then hire a top young coach to work with the players, pick the team and use big Sam as a sounding board and have Big Sam working with Tony and the scouts on players we really need.  Bring the best youngsters into the first team squad but recruit the best players to get us out of the championship next season.  Leaders, strong players in defence.  Quick players up front and try and keep enough of our quality midfielders to dominate as we did under Slav.

There, that was not so difficult was it !

[Statto]

The thing is, Tony Khan, as head of recruitment, both designed the current system, and remains in control of it. So he has to take the blame if that system is, as you say, "not joined up" etc. I've zero sympathy for him.

I was told by some on here years ago that the rationale for taking recruitment decisions out of the manager's hands is it allows you to replace the manager without having to replace the team. Well it clearly doesn't work like that, because as you say, the manager still chooses the tactics and the players need to suit the tactics.

For me, firstly Tony Khan must, absolutely MUST, step down from his role and stop involving himself in the running of the club. If he wants to attend one board meeting as an observer every month, fine, but his knowledge, experience and track record at FFC just don't justify any greater involvement than that.

Then I agree a proper DoF should be brought in to fill that vacuum. But I'd still reconfigure the system to give the manager more control than he has in the current system. Not total control, just more. If the club was being properly run, the ptoential player turnover implications wouldn't be a problem because managers would be staying with the club for 3-5 yr terms rather than changing every 6-12 months.

[alfie]

The thing is, Tony Khan, as head of recruitment, both designed the current system, and remains in control of it. And he's designed it, and continues to run it, in a way that gives him huge influence. So he only has himself to blame IMO. I've zero sympathy for him.

I was told by some on here years ago that the rationale for taking recruitment decisions out of the manager's hands is it allows you to replace the manager without having to replace the team. Well it clearly doesn't work like that, because as you say, the manager still chooses the tactics and the players need to suit the tactics.

For me, firstly Tony Khan must, absolutely MUST, step down from his role and stop involving himself in the running of the club. If he wants to attend one board meeting as an observer every month, fine, but his knowledge, experience and track record at FFC just don't justify any greater involvement than that.

Then I agree a proper DoF should be brought in to fill that vacuum. But I'd still reconfigure the system to give the manager more control than he has in the current system. Not total control, just more. If the club was being properly run, the ptoential player turnover implications wouldn't be a problem because managers would be staying with the club for 3-5 yr terms rather than changing every 6-12 months.

Ok that's fine but with anyone as you I am sure know the only way to gain experience is by doing the job, at this moment we do not know if he has grasped the issues surrounding recruitment, I gues we will find out soon.

[Statto]

Ok that's fine but with anyone as you I am sure know the only way to gain experience is by doing the job, at this moment we do not know if he has grasped the issues surrounding recruitment, I gues we will find out soon.

If he wants to gain experience then he goes and does that by being personal assistant to one of the junior scouts at Carshalton Athletic for a few years. Maybe then he gets promoted to junior scout himself, then maybe a position at a bigger club like Accrington Stanley. Maybe 30 years and another 10 jobs later he will, if he shows he can do the job well, work his way to a DoF role at a PL club.

There were lessons to be learned at FFC in 2016, 2017, 2018 and he's not learning them sorry.

[RaySmith]

I want the club to do everything possible to stay in the Prem -there are still a number of games left this season, still potential points to play for, and , I'm sure,  twists and turns in the relegaton battle to come.

Besides, I think the fast changing nature of football, with few contracts seen out for their duration, means it's hard to plan for the future in such a way.

Well, ensuring our Prem survival, is the best possible  thing we can do for the club's future fortunes.

[FulhamStu]

I want the club to do everything possible to stay in the Prem -there are still a number of games left this season, still potential points to play for, and , I'm sure,  twists and turns in the relegaton battle to come.

Besides, I think the fast changing nature of football, with few contracts seen out for their duration, means it's hard to plan for the future in such a way.

Well, ensuring our Prem survival, is the best possible  thing we can do for the club's future fortunes.

The trouble is if you go for that full on you could take many years to recover.  Better surely to make the club strong, a good solid squad very capable of a quick return would surely not be the end of the world.

[filham]

Fulham Stu, you say we have not got the players for direct football, take another look at our goal at Burnley yesterday, a good example of direct football leading to a great goal by Shurrle.

Encouraging wouldn't you say.

[Woolly Mammoth]

The thing is, Tony Khan, as head of recruitment, both designed the current system, and remains in control of it. So he has to take the blame if that system is, as you say, "not joined up" etc. I've zero sympathy for him.

I was told by some on here years ago that the rationale for taking recruitment decisions out of the manager's hands is it allows you to replace the manager without having to replace the team. Well it clearly doesn't work like that, because as you say, the manager still chooses the tactics and the players need to suit the tactics.

For me, firstly Tony Khan must, absolutely MUST, step down from his role and stop involving himself in the running of the club. If he wants to attend one board meeting as an observer every month, fine, but his knowledge, experience and track record at FFC just don't justify any greater involvement than that.

Then I agree a proper DoF should be brought in to fill that vacuum. But I'd still reconfigure the system to give the manager more control than he has in the current system. Not total control, just more. If the club was being properly run, the ptoential player turnover implications wouldn't be a problem because managers would be staying with the club for 3-5 yr terms rather than changing every 6-12 months.

Spot on 101%

[AnOldBrownie]

Everyone knew what the problem was before a ball was kicked. Even the club did and we bought in 5 defenders and an upgrade to the goalkeeper.  The problem was, only one of the defenders made us better and he has been mostly injured.

Where I have sympathy for people who dig out Tony Khan, is we really did not need to spend £50 million on midfield, we needed to spend £50 million on defence.

We did not need a World Cup winning striker, we need a World Cup winning centre half.

The joke is that even though we put all that money into midfield, our current prime tactic is to play 5 at the back and 3 up front.  You really could not make it up.

It's just not joined up thinking anywhere.  We have a clear process for recruitment, I am frankly ok with that and think Tony Khan gets wrongly abused in this respect.   Where I would be far more critical is in our apparent lack of strategy regarding team building.  Going from one type of coach to another one with entirely different methods.  A set of players with the potential ability to play procession football now trying to play a direct style.  What will happen next ?   Where is the continuity within the club.   We hired Magath to utilise the youth, that went well !!  Kit came in to calm the madness but was never a good enough coach or manager.   Slav did a great job in the championship but the way he set out to deliver in the Premier League was naive at best.

We are lacking direction and leadership.  Tony has loads of passion and I like him but the best signing we could make is to bring in a good director of football, someone who really knows the game.  Rigg was the right idea, he was just not good enough.  I would try and get Alardyce not as head coach but as director of football.  He knows what is required in the championship and how to survive in the Premier League.  This season is almost done, we need to plan for them future and then put that plan into practice.  I would then hire a top young coach to work with the players, pick the team and use big Sam as a sounding board and have Big Sam working with Tony and the scouts on players we really need.  Bring the best youngsters into the first team squad but recruit the best players to get us out of the championship next season.  Leaders, strong players in defence.  Quick players up front and try and keep enough of our quality midfielders to dominate as we did under Slav.

There, that was not so difficult was it !

082.gif :plus one:   everything except your appoint of Big Sam.   Pick anyone else to be DOF.

Other than that your post was spot on.

[Woolly Mammoth]

Ok that's fine but with anyone as you I am sure know the only way to gain experience is by doing the job, at this moment we do not know if he has grasped the issues surrounding recruitment, I gues we will find out soon.

If he wants to gain experience then he goes and does that by being personal assistant to one of the junior scouts at Carshalton Athletic for a few years. Maybe then he gets promoted to junior scout himself, then maybe a position at a bigger club like Accrington Stanley. Maybe 30 years and another 10 jobs later he will, if he shows he can do the job well, work his way to a DoF role at a PL club.

There were lessons to be learned at FFC in 2016, 2017, 2018 and he's not learning them sorry.

Exactly he should start at the bottom and learn from his superiors, before he can fill the post he is currently in, not qualified in any shape or form, and is only in the job because of his father, and will continue to undermine the club, until he is replaced by a more qualified and experienced football person.

[FulhamStu]

Fulham Stu, you say we have not got the players for direct football, take another look at our goal at Burnley yesterday, a good example of direct football leading to a great goal by Shurrle.

Encouraging wouldn't you say.

Good spot, I guess what I am saying is our major spending was on midfield which becomes far less important if you are going more direct.   So back to my OP, that £50M spent on Seri and Frank would have been far more effectively spent on a top top central defender and a right back.

Regarding the continual slating of Tony Khan...last May he was a star, 90% of our fans were delighted at the summer recruitment.   I am saying, now we can see he made mistakes and he should have a football man next to him.   His Dad has the money...fact, more likely to let his son spend it than me.  That's all good in my book.  Tony is a decent, very enthusiastic, loves Fulham.  Nothing wrong with that.  All this make him work his way up is fairy tale stuff....  it's not a fair world.  Do you think the Queen would be rich or speak posh if she grew up on a tough council estate in the North West.

[Woolly Mammoth]

Fulham Stu, you say we have not got the players for direct football, take another look at our goal at Burnley yesterday, a good example of direct football leading to a great goal by Shurrle.

Encouraging wouldn't you say.

Good spot, I guess what I am saying is our major spending was on midfield which becomes far less important if you are going more direct.   So back to my OP, that £50M spent on Seri and Frank would have been far more effectively spent on a top top central defender and a right back.

Regarding the continual slating of Tony Khan...last May he was a star, 90% of our fans were delighted at the summer recruitment.   I am saying, now we can see he made mistakes and he should have a football man next to him.   His Dad has the money...fact, more likely to let his son spend it than me.  That's all good in my book.  Tony is a decent, very enthusiastic, loves Fulham.  Nothing wrong with that.  All this make him work his way up is fairy tale stuff....  it's not a fair world.  Do you think the Queen would be rich or speak posh if she grew up on a tough council estate in the North West.

I don't know where you get 90% of fans were pleased and thought he was a star.
More like the other way round, a noisy 10% who would jump off a cliff like Lemmings.
I haven't met one single Fulham Supporter who was not in doubt of most of his ill judged signings, and fairly sceptical, as it was well known already that TK did not know the difference between a football and a snowball, and it has all contributed to Fulhams demise.

[Denver Fulham]

The joke is that even though we put all that money into midfield, our current prime tactic is to play 5 at the back and 3 up front.  You really could not make it up.

The reason we have to play 5 at the back is because our central midfielders (and fullbacks) are terrible by Prem standards. Seri and Anguissa being anywhere from well below expectation to basically useless has murdered everything else we've tried to do this season, although more or less failing to improve any spot in the back four from a Championship team hasn't helped either.

It's frustrating, because this is what sent us down in 2014, too. The Sidwell-Murphy pairing was the worst in the league. We tried to fix it this time, and it went completely pear-shaped, leaving us in the same position, hemorrhaging stupid goals every week.

[FulhamStu]

Fulham Stu, you say we have not got the players for direct football, take another look at our goal at Burnley yesterday, a good example of direct football leading to a great goal by Shurrle.

Encouraging wouldn't you say.

Good spot, I guess what I am saying is our major spending was on midfield which becomes far less important if you are going more direct.   So back to my OP, that £50M spent on Seri and Frank would have been far more effectively spent on a top top central defender and a right back.

Regarding the continual slating of Tony Khan...last May he was a star, 90% of our fans were delighted at the summer recruitment.   I am saying, now we can see he made mistakes and he should have a football man next to him.   His Dad has the money...fact, more likely to let his son spend it than me.  That's all good in my book.  Tony is a decent, very enthusiastic, loves Fulham.  Nothing wrong with that.  All this make him work his way up is fairy tale stuff....  it's not a fair world.  Do you think the Queen would be rich or speak posh if she grew up on a tough council estate in the North West.

I don't know where you get 90% of fans were pleased and thought he was a star.
More like the other way round, a noisy 10% who would jump off a cliff like Lemmings.
I haven't met one single Fulham Supporter who was not in doubt of most of his ill judged signings, and fairly sceptical, as it was well known already that TK did not know the difference between a football and a snowball, and it has all contributed to Fulhams demise.

Wolly, I like a load of your stuff, but frankly, maybe the fans you met did say this..but..everything, or 90% of everything I read was very positive.  On FOF, in the media and most fans I spoke too.

People were saying stuff like, they think we will finish in the top 10.. etc etc etc.

Have I lost the plot or does your memory let you down ?    Blimey mate.

[FulhamStu]

The joke is that even though we put all that money into midfield, our current prime tactic is to play 5 at the back and 3 up front.  You really could not make it up.

The reason we have to play 5 at the back is because our central midfielders (and fullbacks) are terrible by Prem standards. Seri and Anguissa being anywhere from well below expectation to basically useless has murdered everything else we've tried to do this season, although more or less failing to improve any spot in the back four from a Championship team hasn't helped either.

It's frustrating, because this is what sent us down in 2014, too. The Sidwell-Murphy pairing was the worst in the league. We tried to fix it this time, and it went completely pear-shaped, leaving us in the same position, hemorrhaging stupid goals every week.

Denver Fulham...Seri is not useless.   Are you saying Ranieri is a totally inept, useless, has no idea what he is doing manager ?  Because he picks the useless Seri above Cairney etc etc.  Some of the stuff being posted at the moment is flipping stupid.  I get it we are all frustrated, I get it that Seri is not as good as we had hoped, I get it that Anguissa has been massively dissapointing so far.  But that's football, I still think Anguissa can be a good player, I do worry about the attitude of over paid footballers..not being hungry enough, not sweating blood for the cause.  This is why maybe League football is better than Premiership, because they are not quite so over indulged.  I repeat, playing 5 at the back, yes because our defence is crap, and 3 forwards is giving the midfield 2 too much to do.  We should at the minimum be only playing 2 up top and have 3 in midfield.   And no, I would not play Seri and Cairney together, well certainly not at the start of the game.

[The Rational Fan]

We need to raid teams with a few quality players that would love to play for Fulham instead of their current club. Let's raid Huddersfield in the winter transfer window, their season is over. They have played Fulham, Cardiff and Burnley twice getting six points; and now they have to play the other sixteen team again that they only got five points against in the first round.

[Denver Fulham]

The joke is that even though we put all that money into midfield, our current prime tactic is to play 5 at the back and 3 up front.  You really could not make it up.

The reason we have to play 5 at the back is because our central midfielders (and fullbacks) are terrible by Prem standards. Seri and Anguissa being anywhere from well below expectation to basically useless has murdered everything else we've tried to do this season, although more or less failing to improve any spot in the back four from a Championship team hasn't helped either.

It's frustrating, because this is what sent us down in 2014, too. The Sidwell-Murphy pairing was the worst in the league. We tried to fix it this time, and it went completely pear-shaped, leaving us in the same position, hemorrhaging stupid goals every week.

Denver Fulham...Seri is not useless.   Are you saying Ranieri is a totally inept, useless, has no idea what he is doing manager ?  Because he picks the useless Seri above Cairney etc etc.  Some of the stuff being posted at the moment is flipping stupid.  I get it we are all frustrated, I get it that Seri is not as good as we had hoped, I get it that Anguissa has been massively dissapointing so far.  But that's football, I still think Anguissa can be a good player, I do worry about the attitude of over paid footballers..not being hungry enough, not sweating blood for the cause.  This is why maybe League football is better than Premiership, because they are not quite so over indulged.  I repeat, playing 5 at the back, yes because our defence is crap, and 3 forwards is giving the midfield 2 too much to do.  We should at the minimum be only playing 2 up top and have 3 in midfield.   And no, I would not play Seri and Cairney together, well certainly not at the start of the game.

I never said that. I suggested that Anguissa has been basically useless (and Seri has played below expectation). Seri was probably our best player on Saturday.

[Woolly Mammoth]

Fulham Stu, you say we have not got the players for direct football, take another look at our goal at Burnley yesterday, a good example of direct football leading to a great goal by Shurrle.

Encouraging wouldn't you say.

Good spot, I guess what I am saying is our major spending was on midfield which becomes far less important if you are going more direct.   So back to my OP, that £50M spent on Seri and Frank would have been far more effectively spent on a top top central defender and a right back.

Regarding the continual slating of Tony Khan...last May he was a star, 90% of our fans were delighted at the summer recruitment.   I am saying, now we can see he made mistakes and he should have a football man next to him.   His Dad has the money...fact, more likely to let his son spend it than me.  That's all good in my book.  Tony is a decent, very enthusiastic, loves Fulham.  Nothing wrong with that.  All this make him work his way up is fairy tale stuff....  it's not a fair world.  Do you think the Queen would be rich or speak posh if she grew up on a tough council estate in the North West.

I don't know where you get 90% of fans were pleased and thought he was a star.
More like the other way round, a noisy 10% who would jump off a cliff like Lemmings.
I haven't met one single Fulham Supporter who was not in doubt of most of his ill judged signings, and fairly sceptical, as it was well known already that TK did not know the difference between a football and a snowball, and it has all contributed to Fulhams demise.

Wolly, I like a load of your stuff, but frankly, maybe the fans you met did say this..but..everything, or 90% of everything I read was very positive.  On FOF, in the media and most fans I spoke too.

People were saying stuff like, they think we will finish in the top 10.. etc etc etc.

Have I lost the plot or does your memory let you down ?    Blimey mate.

I found it hard as did my colleagues and associates, to comprehend how some people were getting all excited by some of the players brought in last Summers who we spent over inflated prices on, as well as the ill judged loans, it was always going to end in tears.
But I lived in hope that things would turn out better, but knowing in my gut that it was poor recruitment by a poor recruitment team.
After gathering all the evidence and research, I can categorically state that you may have lost the plot, but that often can happen when people try and defend the indefensible, which I can understand, it's like the last throw of the dice. But we are all on the same side, so i can sympathise, it's not easy supporting Fulham as we have all gathered.
May I ask you to address me as Woolly, or even Mr Mammoth, or some even call me God, if none of those float your boat, then Sir will have to do.
But I prefer Woolly if it's ok with you. 🍺🐘

[Matt10]

The spending was on the midfield, not because we were more direct, but because we played Slav football, at the time. The majority on here, social media and even tv pundits, said that we needed to get PL quality and PL experienced players because our promotion side was far from it.   

So, let's dig into who was available. Looking at the summer signings by the PL, see if there are any of the players on the "OUT" we could have picked up. The pickings are slim.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/667700

They become even slimmer knowing full well that we are a newly promoted side, newly promoted coach, a set system of a unit midfield 3 that had an unbeaten streak of 23 in the league below. 

From the OUT list, here are the ones that could have possibly worked. Only those who are Premier League experienced mind you:

1. Harry Arter >> Bournemouth > Cardiff on loan
2. Benik Afobe >> Bournemouth > Wolves perm
3. Davy Klaassen >> Everton > Werder Bremen perm
4. Kevin Mirallas >> Everton > Fiorentina loan
5. Jon Flanagan >> Liverpool > released, at Rangers perm
6. Danny Ings >> Liverpool > Southampton perm
7. Dwight Gayle >> Newcastle > West Brom loan
8. Kouyate >> West Ham > Crystal Palace perm

From that list, and competing with the likes of Cardiff, Southampton, West Brom and Crystal Palace:

1. Harry Arter >> Bournemouth > Cardiff on loan
2. Danny Ings >> Liverpool > Southampton perm
3. Dwight Gayle >> Newcastle > West Brom loan
4. Kouyate >> West Ham > Crystal Palace perm

Now, we want midfielders because the perception is that Seri and Anguissa are useless:

1. Harry Arter >> Bournemouth > Cardiff on loan
2. Kouyate >> West Ham > Crystal Palace perm

Was our recruiting team in for them? Just Arter from what I can find. Kouyate was signed at the start of August.

1. Harry Arter >> https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2018/07/27/do-report-fulham-ready-to-sign-bournemouth-midfielder-harry-arte/

------------------

So what do we do now? How slim is that list now? We keep talking about how we want premier league experienced players. Just because we know what we do now, does not do anymore to invalidate the fact that the crop to choose was slim, and regardless we had to go outside that filter. Multiple teams on that list made mistakes in their signings going outside of the filter of PL experienced. Ours just sticks out more because of where we are on the table and people can't seem to comprehend that there is no such thing as time machines.

It's time to move on into the present and the future.

[The Rational Fan]

Absolutely brillant analysis "Matt10", showing that proper midfielders (rather than athetic box-to box defenders) with EPL experience are so so expensive. It seems like "Route One Football's major advantage" is that you don't need to spend much money on expensive midfielders cause you hoof it over them anyway, which allows a team to spend on backs and forwards instead.

TK is not the problem (FFP Rules limit his budget), the problem is Slav Football requires very expensive all round high quality EPL players. Big Sam requires cheap morons that can do one (or two) thing really really well; goalkeeper / centre backs that stop attacks scoring and send the ball down field; midfielders that are incredible box to box athetes (that dreamed as a child of have the ball skills of Calton Palmer but failed) and forwards that shoot wherever they get the ball cause they never learnt to pass.