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Relegation

Started by Andy S, April 29, 2019, 12:46:47 PM

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Andy S

Nobody expects an easy ride in the season following relegation. However last years teams that went down have had mixed seasons West Brom are likely to finish in the play-offs the highest of the three. Swansea are likely to finish around 11th spot but Stoke will finish around 16th. I'm not sure if we compare with any of these clubs but I would like to thin a top 4 position would not be beyond us. What are other people's thoughts?

junior white

For me if we make wholesale changes to the playing squad like we did last time, i think we will struggle.

If we only need say 4/5 players to come in the I think we will do rather well. Getting Stef Jo extended and sorting out KMAC's future are essential. To choose from Anguissa, Stef, Tom and KMAC would be quite nice.

ALG01

I tend to think each set of circumstances is different and you can't compare what they do with what we might.
Each team has failed for a variety of reasons, some money, or lack thereof, some poor management, some a particular set of unfortunate circumstances.

In our case, in my opinion, all the building blocks for success are in place, funds available (I believe), but I do think we need a sea change in the way our top management operate and intefere with the team for all the reasons we have discussed through the season, but that is wat i do believe.

So, if we carry on like last season and with no change in personnel and/or philosophy, 16th may be a reasonable achievement but I suspect worse by far.
However, a relatively simple adjustment in how the squad is assembled and selecting the correct manager (not always that easy even for the best) we may yet do well.

Regarding the manager as I see it we can keep Parker, and I think there is a great deal to commend that.
There are only two other candidates I have heard mentioned that would likely bring success with relatively low risk...
bear in mind this is my genuine opinion so please just accept is that
first would be bring back Slav (never gonna happen but he is the top man for the job).
OR
second Chris Houghton who I am assuming will become available during may. He is not prem manager, and failed at it before but he seems to know how to get a team promoted.
I suppose there is A.N.Other but I have not heard a candidate that inspires me better than those suggestions.



junior white

I would chuck Lee Johnson in the mix if we do not go for Parker.

I do not think we will change ow we scout players and thus assemble the squad. Not that I disagree with your logic I just do not see us changing the way we work.

Statto

#4
Quote from: junior white on April 29, 2019, 01:09:29 PM
For me if we make wholesale changes to the playing squad like we did last time, i think we will struggle.

If we only need say 4/5 players to come in the I think we will do rather well. Getting Stef Jo extended and sorting out KMAC's future are essential. To choose from Anguissa, Stef, Tom and KMAC would be quite nice.

Agree

I'd like to see 6-7 of the players that started on Saturday still in our first XI next August (two of MLM/Ream/Odoi, plus Bryan, Anguissa, Cairney, Sessegnon and hopefully Mitrovic) and another 3 of those places filled by other players who are already here (such as Bettinelli, Mawson and McDonald).

Any more than that, and I reckon every additional change costs us 2-3 league places.

hovewhite

#5
Wouldn't like wholesale changes as if that is the case then bottom half finish,add 3players defenders 2off and a back up striker for mitro and after sending back the loanees keep the squad as it is and we will be top 4.


hongkongfulham

Parker has done enough for me to give him the job to bring us in to next season. Players seem to respect him and i can't see any other appointment being less of a risk. Where will we finish? Bloody hard to say but the summer will be telling...

H4usuallysitting

Because we've been relegated a little while now - we should be ahead of the game where we want to be next season.... Parker, Gray & Wells in charge.... try & keep Babel, regrettably Chamber's will go....but we've still got the core of the promotion side....we need a new keeper, centre back & left back - and possibly another striker (if Babel goes) - but currently it's looking like we've got some of our mojo back.....

Milo

Quote from: Statto on April 29, 2019, 01:47:01 PM
Quote from: junior white on April 29, 2019, 01:09:29 PM
For me if we make wholesale changes to the playing squad like we did last time, i think we will struggle.

If we only need say 4/5 players to come in the I think we will do rather well. Getting Stef Jo extended and sorting out KMAC's future are essential. To choose from Anguissa, Stef, Tom and KMAC would be quite nice.

Agree

I'd like to see 6-7 of the players that started on Saturday still in our first XI next August (two of MLM/Ream/Odoi, plus Bryan, Anguissa, Cairney, Sessegnon and hopefully Mitrovic) and another 3 of those places filled by other players who are already here (such as Bettinelli, Mawson and McDonald).

Any more than that, and I reckon every additional change costs us 2-3 league places.

So same team as last year + Bryan and Anguissa.

We also need a new winger and right back.


The Rational Fan

#9
First XI: Fabri; Matthias Zimmermann, Mawson, MLM, Bryan; McDonald, Anguissa, Cairney; Kamara, Mitorvoic, R.Sess (on loan)

Second XI: Betts; Christie, Nordveidt or Kalas, Ream, S.Sess; Cisse, Johansen, Seri; Markovoic or Piazon, Fonte, Atyie

Third XI:  Rodak; Fossey, Djaló, Odoi, Drameh; Edun, Riley, Kebano; Torres, Martell Taylor-Crossdale, Elliott

Fourth XI: Norman and Kait

Add a striker/winger to backup Mitro & replace Kamara like Dwight Gale and wow, we have talent and options everywhere.

toshes mate

Quote from: ALG01 on April 29, 2019, 01:12:20 PM
I tend to think each set of circumstances is different and you can't compare what they do with what we might.
Each team has failed for a variety of reasons, some money, or lack thereof, some poor management, some a particular set of unfortunate circumstances.
This, IMO, is the wise reflection upon our circumstances.  We are not WBA, Swansea, or Stoke, and we are not Huddersfield and whoever else comes down with us.  We have our own cake to bake, and we need to make sure the ingredients are vastly superior to the fare dished up in many a summer under the Khans.  And that means care in who is released, sold on, as well as who is retained.  And for all the reasons you reflect upon the Club must get its act together behind the scenes and not tarry with problems that have lingered too long to be ignored again.

We need a team that works from top to bottom and it needs to be mostly in place now.  We have achieved the outlines of a team working well at the very end of the season a familiar pattern under the Khans in recent years but this time we need to make an effort to understand where that team has succeeded and why, and where that team has failed and why.  Three managers say it was a hard task for anyone to make this team play anywhere near to its perceived financial outlay, and someone has to bear the criticism for that, step aside, and allow a better equipped individual to have a go at being better at shaping a 'new' team after all expected departures are considered.  Even if all key staff stay with us we will need a right back from somewhere and they'll need to be up to speed well before the season starts.  Parker is the devil we know.  He may be the best chance we have especially with a decent DoF in place.     

Statto

Quote from: Milo on April 30, 2019, 10:41:13 AM
Quote from: Statto on April 29, 2019, 01:47:01 PM
Quote from: junior white on April 29, 2019, 01:09:29 PM
For me if we make wholesale changes to the playing squad like we did last time, i think we will struggle.

If we only need say 4/5 players to come in the I think we will do rather well. Getting Stef Jo extended and sorting out KMAC's future are essential. To choose from Anguissa, Stef, Tom and KMAC would be quite nice.

Agree

I'd like to see 6-7 of the players that started on Saturday still in our first XI next August (two of MLM/Ream/Odoi, plus Bryan, Anguissa, Cairney, Sessegnon and hopefully Mitrovic) and another 3 of those places filled by other players who are already here (such as Bettinelli, Mawson and McDonald).

Any more than that, and I reckon every additional change costs us 2-3 league places.

So same team as last year + Bryan and Anguissa.


+ Mawson


jarv

Wholesale changes equals chaos usually. It can take months to develop team understanding  at the fine tuned level it needs to be.  Not my words, an ex Chelsea manager (Sexton) at a coaching clinic I attended a long time ago.

I think we witnessed that when Roy was in charge.

Andy S

There are a few things I'd like to see but we have no say over any of this. I still remember at the start of the season people on here saying it was our most successful transfer window. Not many said they were fools. As we cannot take credit we also cannot be blamed

Nero

WE dont need wholesale changes,  whatever was going on at the start of the season under Slav and Claudio seems to have been sorted under Parker. The team are playing as a team and winning, yes the pressure may be off but the results against Man City and Liverpool where nothing to be embarrassed about. It just really a case of who wants to leave and replacing them, and the usual we need another CB and a back up for Mitro if he stays as I think he will he stayed at Newcastle when they came down.  Give it to Parker he seems to have sorted out whatever was going on in the dressing room and if the players like him they may be more willing to stay and fight for a season.


WindyCity

Quote from: Andy S on April 29, 2019, 12:46:47 PM
Nobody expects an easy ride in the season following relegation. However last years teams that went down have had mixed seasons West Brom are likely to finish in the play-offs the highest of the three. Swansea are likely to finish around 11th spot but Stoke will finish around 16th. I'm not sure if we compare with any of these clubs but I would like to thin a top 4 position would not be beyond us. What are other people's thoughts?

I think it's still too early to forecast next season.  There will be some players gone.  New brought in.  And head coach is still not clear.  I do fear, and I hope I'm wrong, another drop next year.  This is based on a very leaky defense, and if FFC can't/doesn't bring in players to shore up, I just don't see things going well next season.

fulham traveller

I would be delighted with a top ten finish, realistically I think we will finish about 14th

The Rational Fan

#17
Quote from: Andy S on April 30, 2019, 01:15:01 PM
There are a few things I'd like to see but we have no say over any of this. I still remember at the start of the season people on here saying it was our most successful transfer window. Not many said they were fools. As we cannot take credit we also cannot be blamed

My newsagent (ex West Ham reserves player) said on 10th August 2018 he said only a fool would think one good transfer window would have immediate effect and we had bought well but will get relegated.

He thinks you cannot beat teams buying a new squad 3 months before the season starts, of course we bought mamy players 3 hours before season starts even worse.

Lately, he said "Fulham should embrace being a yo-yo club" until one of the top 17 clubs in England implode, i think he is right. I see Bournmouth, Brighton and Burnley imploding in the next few seasons, a few aging players may result in teamwork needing a rebuild for them.


The Rational Fan

#18
Quote from: Statto on April 30, 2019, 01:06:57 PM
Quote from: Milo on April 30, 2019, 10:41:13 AM
Quote from: Statto on April 29, 2019, 01:47:01 PM
Quote from: junior white on April 29, 2019, 01:09:29 PM
For me if we make wholesale changes to the playing squad like we did last time, i think we will struggle.

If we only need say 4/5 players to come in the I think we will do rather well. Getting Stef Jo extended and sorting out KMAC's future are essential. To choose from Anguissa, Stef, Tom and KMAC would be quite nice.

Agree

I'd like to see 6-7 of the players that started on Saturday still in our first XI next August (two of MLM/Ream/Odoi, plus Bryan, Anguissa, Cairney, Sessegnon and hopefully Mitrovic) and another 3 of those places filled by other players who are already here (such as Bettinelli, Mawson and McDonald).

Any more than that, and I reckon every additional change costs us 2-3 league places.

So same team as last year + Bryan and Anguissa.


+ Mawson

I would add we need top-class players off the bench replacing Betts, Mawson, Cairney and Mitro; like Fabri, MLM, Seri and Babel. Most threads seem to focus on the first XI, but some of them won't fire, some will get injured and some will need a rest from time to time. We need a complete second XI and something that looks like a decent third XI (Rodak, Fossey, Riley, Elloitt & Fonte). Each game needs 14 players, being the best team in final 25 minutes will make a huge difference and its something we failed at this season. I would note, as much as I like Cairney and Seri neither are 90 minutes for 46 games a season type players (both are required).

Tony Khan's number one skill and number two skill as DoF is getting money from the owner (he has almost no equal in that area), as for trading players half the DoFs are below average and he is defaintely in that half. He can help Fulham most by providing squad depth, reducing the sale of players and offerring extensions to any existing players that the coach likes.

Next season, we should be aiming to be the Manchester City of the Championship , not the Tottenham Hotspurs of the Championship. Our first XI should be easily good enough to get automatic promotion, but we need a team that can win games without any of Mawson, Cairney and Mitro too. No use use beating Leeds and Aston Villa then drawing with Rottenham and Barnsley.

We need a deep deep squad, its a good managers job to work out chemistry between players. If he has enough players at his disposal, he should be able to work out chemistry given enough time. This season, it seems we were struggling to fit Cairney and Seri into the same team but that's not the true problem; with more players in other positions (e.g. defensive midfield and right wing) we would have been picking one to start (e.g. Cairney) and the other (e.g. Seri) would be replacing him the last 20-30 minutes rather than playing in the wrong position.

The Rational Fan

#19
I would love to discuss where the bench and squad the needs reinforcements. I think Striker would be top of FFC list only Mitro is a class striker and once loans go back we will need wingers too.

In a 46 game season, we need to have three players in every position, of course players like Odoi that play three positions make that easier. But, we need a lot of players especially as some like Markovoic need to have a plan B in case he is truly crap.