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Mitro to Palace?

Started by nikhil24, May 16, 2019, 08:45:47 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

JoelH5

Quote from: simplyfulham on May 16, 2019, 07:05:44 PM
Quote from: JoelH5 on May 16, 2019, 01:02:31 PM
Quote from: simplyfulham on May 16, 2019, 12:59:01 PM
Unpopular opinion. I'd prefer to keep Mitro. However if he wants out then I'd happily swap him for Benteke.

Benteke is truly awful. Even so, he wouldn't move to a championship club

He's only truly awful if you have a short memory.

He's down on his luck in a big way, but he still works hard up front. Reminds me a little of Bobby Zamora before he came to us. I think we have a chance to revive him.

Short memory? Sounds like you dont have a memory.  He's been terrible for a number of years.  Just because a player had one or two decent seasons years ago doesnt make them a good player.
I was there, standing in the Putney end

YankeeJim

Quote from: Sting of the North on May 16, 2019, 02:07:54 PM
Quote from: davew on May 16, 2019, 12:11:19 PM
Very optimistic saying that if he stays we will go up, you haven't taken into account that we have no defence? They will give away more silly goals than Mitro & Co can score!

Fulham had I believe the 6th best defensive record in the promotion season. Are you suggesting that Bryan, Mawson and Christie are so much worse than Targett, Kalas and Fredericks defensively so that we will inevitably be much worse defensively next season? If so, what made you end up at that conclusion?

I am not saying that Mitro will score 30 goals, or that it will be enough for promotion, but don't understand why some on here think that our defence will be among the worst in the Championship.


There was an old American football coach who used to say, "If they can't score, they can't beat ya". Our promotion season was one of ball control. The opponent can't score if you have the ball. Betts did a solid job but the back line was mediocre at best. With less attack, the back line would have been exposed.
Its not that I could and others couldn't.
Its that I did and others didn't.

JoelH5

Quote from: YankeeJim on May 16, 2019, 07:29:51 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on May 16, 2019, 02:07:54 PM
Quote from: davew on May 16, 2019, 12:11:19 PM
Very optimistic saying that if he stays we will go up, you haven't taken into account that we have no defence? They will give away more silly goals than Mitro & Co can score!

Fulham had I believe the 6th best defensive record in the promotion season. Are you suggesting that Bryan, Mawson and Christie are so much worse than Targett, Kalas and Fredericks defensively so that we will inevitably be much worse defensively next season? If so, what made you end up at that conclusion?

I am not saying that Mitro will score 30 goals, or that it will be enough for promotion, but don't understand why some on here think that our defence will be among the worst in the Championship.


There was an old American football coach who used to say, "If they can't score, they can't beat ya". Our promotion season was one of ball control. The opponent can't score if you have the ball. Betts did a solid job but the back line was mediocre at best. With less attack, the back line would have been exposed.

Spot on
I was there, standing in the Putney end


Sting of the North

#43
Quote from: JoelH5 on May 16, 2019, 07:53:36 PM
Quote from: YankeeJim on May 16, 2019, 07:29:51 PM

There was an old American football coach who used to say, "If they can't score, they can't beat ya". Our promotion season was one of ball control. The opponent can't score if you have the ball. Betts did a solid job but the back line was mediocre at best. With less attack, the back line would have been exposed.

Spot on

I think that saying is not even close to being spot on, at least not if implying that possession means the opponent can't score. (which your post seemed to indicate). A high possession tactic does indeed take pressure of your defenders more often than for example a kick and run tactic usually does. However, when losing the ball, defenders are often faced with much more difficult situation, because the team tends to be caught high up field. This gives the opponent plenty of space to attack, which makes it so much harder to defend, and often with less support from your more attack minded players (often including at least one fullback). Our last game this season was a good example of when possession didn't translate to making it easier for the defenders (unfortunately, the defenders didn't rise to the challenge either).

Also, in order to play a possession game you need defenders able to contribute. Keeping the ball is, as you state, one way of defending. Our defenders were really good at that, and that also counts.

It is in my opinion much, much easier to play as a defender in a Cardiff type system, without meaning to take credit from their defenders.

So, I disagree that our defenders were "mediocre at best". I think they performed their very difficult job admirably, and I believe that they deserve credit for that. I actually think that Betts was probably the weaker link. In any case, I am not at all worried if we go into the season with our current defenders, they are better than the defenders of most other teams in the division. Granted, they are more suited to a possession system than a Cardiff system, but I really hope we will try the former rather than the later anyway.

JoelH5

Quote from: Sting of the North on May 16, 2019, 10:16:51 PM
Quote from: JoelH5 on May 16, 2019, 07:53:36 PM
Quote from: YankeeJim on May 16, 2019, 07:29:51 PM

There was an old American football coach who used to say, "If they can't score, they can't beat ya". Our promotion season was one of ball control. The opponent can't score if you have the ball. Betts did a solid job but the back line was mediocre at best. With less attack, the back line would have been exposed.

Spot on

I think that saying is not even close to being spot on, at least not if implying that possession means the opponent can't score. (which your post seemed to indicate). A high possession tactic does indeed take pressure of your defenders more often than for example a kick and run tactic usually does. However, when losing the ball, defenders are often faced with much more difficult situation, because the team tends to be caught high up field. This gives the opponent plenty of space to attack, which makes it so much harder to defend, and often with less support from your more attack minded players (often including at least one fullback). Our last game this season was a good example of when possession didn't translate to making it easier for the defenders (unfortunately, the defenders didn't rise to the challenge either).

Also, in order to play a possession game you need defenders able to contribute. Keeping the ball is, as you state, one way of defending. Our defenders were really good at that, and that also counts.

It is in my opinion much, much easier to play as a defender in a Cardiff type system, without meaning to take credit from their defenders.

So, I disagree that our defenders were "mediocre at best". I think they performed their very difficult job admirably, and I believe that they deserve credit for that. I actually think that Betts was probably the weaker link. In any case, I am not at all worried if we go into the season with our current defenders, they are better than the defenders of most other teams in the division. Granted, they are more suited to a possession system than a Cardiff system, but I really hope we will try the former rather than the later anyway.

Cant remember which manger it was, Steve Bruce maybe? He said towards the end of last year, every manager's tactics when playing us was to get at us and press high as we had a poor defence. The problem was, they couldn't ever get the ball to put us under any real trouble.

That sums us up perfectly last year. Weak defence but as we were so good with possession, people couldn't expose us.
I was there, standing in the Putney end

The Rational Fan

#45
Teams going down nearly always find defending is easier in the Championship because the oppositions aren't as good, but scoring goals can be just as hard if not harder as Stoke found out.

Next year, Fulham will almost certainly have the most expensive squad on paper and one of the better teams in the division. Lower half teams will enter the field trying not to concede and catch us on the counter. It can in many ways be harder to score against a team that we should beat, because they are less likely to push forward in order to win.

I believe we will do well against the teams in top part of the table (win some and lose some) but it's our ability to score against those in the bottom half that will determine our season. We need to win half our games next season, if we can dispose of bottom half teams the way we did against "low block Brighton" at home we will do well.

Mitro is key to beating low block teams, no defense (including a ManCity) can defend against that guy if he gets 90 minutes of service in the box. With Mitro, opposition teams have to cut off the service. The real difficult for relegated teams in the Championship is what Wolves had with lower ranked teams this year, it's hard to score if teams refuse to attack in numbers. Mitro is most dangerous if a team defends deep, so ideal for a top championship team.


simplyfulham

#46
Quote from: JoelH5 on May 16, 2019, 07:28:34 PM
Quote from: simplyfulham on May 16, 2019, 07:05:44 PM
Quote from: JoelH5 on May 16, 2019, 01:02:31 PM
Quote from: simplyfulham on May 16, 2019, 12:59:01 PM
Unpopular opinion. I'd prefer to keep Mitro. However if he wants out then I'd happily swap him for Benteke.

Benteke is truly awful. Even so, he wouldn't move to a championship club

He's only truly awful if you have a short memory.

He's down on his luck in a big way, but he still works hard up front. Reminds me a little of Bobby Zamora before he came to us. I think we have a chance to revive him.

Short memory? Sounds like you dont have a memory.  He's been terrible for a number of years.  Just because a player had one or two decent seasons years ago doesnt make them a good player.

Alright well just for the record..

I don't think you can call a player who has got into double figures for goals in the premier league  in 4 seperate seasons 'truly awful'. Considering Brian McBride didn't manage to accomplish this ever! (Not having a pop at Brian, just purely using a fulham great for a reference point).

Oh and the most recent of which was when he scored 15 goals for Palace 2 years ago. 2 years?!? So the same season that we reached the play offs and got knocked out by reading. Can you remember that or is that too long ago as it was 'a number of years' now.

And by the way, I don't know if you've been paying attention, but this Fulham team have spent most of the season being truly awful. I reckon Benteke would fit right in with this team and at Champioship level.

Statto

He has been out with their captain again this evening. Seems to be his best mate at the moment. Going to palace would mean staying in London, and he's the type of striker Hodgson likes. As I said a couple of months ago, it pains me to contemplate it but I can see him going there.

I'd like to see us pull out all the stops - match what they're offering, make him vice captain and promise we'll release him next summer if we don't go back up.

The Rational Fan

#48
Quote from: Statto on May 16, 2019, 11:51:03 PM
He has been out with their captain again this evening. Seems to be his best mate at the moment. Going to palace would mean staying in London, and he's the type of striker Hodgson likes. As I said a couple of months ago, it pains me to contemplate it but I can see him going there.

I'd like to see us pull out all the stops - match what they're offering, make him vice captain and promise we'll release him next summer if we don't go back up.

Unless Mitro has a release clause enforced or we get £40m+, Fulham should not sell him. Any DoF would need £25m to replace Mitro and that's only if we buy pre-season. If we buy on deadline day even the best DoF would need £30m, but our DoF will buy on deadline day and needs at least £40m. Our DoF biggest advantage is he has a lot of money to invest, FFC could do worse than having our promotion hopes invested in Mitrovoic with a support cast around him. That is to say Fulham will do worse if they try to do clever transfers and recruitment. Fulham's plan should be to keep everyone except Sessegnon and invest in strength and depth. If FFC strategy requires money rather than wisdom from our DoF, then that is an excellent strategy for Fulham. Mawson, Anguissa, Cairney and Mitro lead promotion with 20 other players is the simple plan that can work, stick with it. I am sure other excellent strategies exist, but we will fail to implement anything except the simplest plan. Keep everyone we can from the last two seasons, make sure anyone lost like Fredricks and Sessegnon are replaced with similar players and we will be ok.


hovewhite

TRF a good plan that I would go with also as another mass clearout would set back the club 3 or 4 years in my view.

70sPimlico

Quote from: JoelH5 on May 16, 2019, 10:32:08 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on May 16, 2019, 10:16:51 PM
Quote from: JoelH5 on May 16, 2019, 07:53:36 PM
Quote from: YankeeJim on May 16, 2019, 07:29:51 PM

There was an old American football coach who used to say, "If they can't score, they can't beat ya". Our promotion season was one of ball control. The opponent can't score if you have the ball. Betts did a solid job but the back line was mediocre at best. With less attack, the back line would have been exposed.

Spot on

I think that saying is not even close to being spot on, at least not if implying that possession means the opponent can't score. (which your post seemed to indicate). A high possession tactic does indeed take pressure of your defenders more often than for example a kick and run tactic usually does. However, when losing the ball, defenders are often faced with much more difficult situation, because the team tends to be caught high up field. This gives the opponent plenty of space to attack, which makes it so much harder to defend, and often with less support from your more attack minded players (often including at least one fullback). Our last game this season was a good example of when possession didn't translate to making it easier for the defenders (unfortunately, the defenders didn't rise to the challenge either).

Also, in order to play a possession game you need defenders able to contribute. Keeping the ball is, as you state, one way of defending. Our defenders were really good at that, and that also counts.

It is in my opinion much, much easier to play as a defender in a Cardiff type system, without meaning to take credit from their defenders.

So, I disagree that our defenders were "mediocre at best". I think they performed their very difficult job admirably, and I believe that they deserve credit for that. I actually think that Betts was probably the weaker link. In any case, I am not at all worried if we go into the season with our current defenders, they are better than the defenders of most other teams in the division. Granted, they are more suited to a possession system than a Cardiff system, but I really hope we will try the former rather than the later anyway.

Cant remember which manger it was, Steve Bruce maybe? He said towards the end of last year, every manager's tactics when playing us was to get at us and press high as we had a poor defence. The problem was, they couldn't ever get the ball to put us under any real trouble.

That sums us up perfectly last year. Weak defence but as we were so good with possession, people couldn't expose us.

And to give credit to our defenders, they were pretty good at keeping the ball. They got better as the season went on and got very used to the balls coming out from Betts. It was pretty scary at the start of the season, that in itself I think was a big part of our long run from Xmas.


JoelH5

Quote from: simplyfulham on May 16, 2019, 11:33:05 PM
Quote from: JoelH5 on May 16, 2019, 07:28:34 PM
Quote from: simplyfulham on May 16, 2019, 07:05:44 PM
Quote from: JoelH5 on May 16, 2019, 01:02:31 PM
Quote from: simplyfulham on May 16, 2019, 12:59:01 PM
Unpopular opinion. I'd prefer to keep Mitro. However if he wants out then I'd happily swap him for Benteke.

Benteke is truly awful. Even so, he wouldn't move to a championship club

He's only truly awful if you have a short memory.

He's down on his luck in a big way, but he still works hard up front. Reminds me a little of Bobby Zamora before he came to us. I think we have a chance to revive him.

Short memory? Sounds like you dont have a memory.  He's been terrible for a number of years.  Just because a player had one or two decent seasons years ago doesnt make them a good player.

Alright well just for the record..

I don't think you can call a player who has got into double figures for goals in the premier league  in 4 seperate seasons 'truly awful'. Considering Brian McBride didn't manage to accomplish this ever! (Not having a pop at Brian, just purely using a fulham great for a reference point).

Oh and the most recent of which was when he scored 15 goals for Palace 2 years ago. 2 years?!? So the same season that we reached the play offs and got knocked out by reading. Can you remember that or is that too long ago as it was 'a number of years' now.

And by the way, I don't know if you've been paying attention, but this Fulham team have spent most of the season being truly awful. I reckon Benteke would fit right in with this team and at Champioship level.

Are you his agent?  :005: Let's forget Chris Smalling scored more than him this season. Smalling up front anyone?
I was there, standing in the Putney end