Author Topic: Fulham’s defence must be improvedii  (Read 1686 times)

Offline FulhamStu

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Fulham’s defence must be improvedii
« on: May 19, 2019, 10:53:22 PM »
I just watched the last 30 minutes again of the fantastic 2-0 win in the Semi Final v Derby for the first time this season.

What you notice is our great possession play, but also the absolutely terrible mistakes made in defence.   Our back line in the Premier League was very similar and that back 4 and was frankly a relatively average defensive unit.  Great going forward yes, but made too many mistakes.  To even think that defence could handle the Premier League was madness and just re-confirmed my view that only really adding an injured Mawson was the great mistake of last summers transfer dealings.   
We love Tim Ream, but defensively he is not good enough, he made about 3 critical errors in that last 30 mins v Derby that could have cost us, the difference then was that Derby unlike most Premier teams did not punish us.

Max is a decent squad player but we need to sign at least one very good championship central defender as a top priority this summer.

Offline H4usuallysitting

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Re: Fulham’s defence must be improvedii
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2019, 11:49:47 PM »
Sorry - who is Max....but you're right about our defence....needs surgery and we may also need to look at keeper's

Offline The Rational Fan

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Re: Fulham’s defence must be improvedii
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2019, 11:51:26 PM »
If premier league defenders TFM, Chambers and Mawson managed to play a combined 100 games between them in defence, then Christie, Odoi, MLM, Ream, Bryan and Sessegnon would have been ok covering the other 52 games between them and the bench.

Our backline is ok although not great, it’s up front we are bad, especially when we have two forwards like Schullre and Mitro that cannot defend. We need two forwards better than Kamara, Kebano, Fonte and Atyie every game, therefore we need at least three to four top forwards (Mitro is one), especially some wingers that can press, win the ball, get back and maybe one that can provide aerial support on set pieces.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 12:05:03 AM by The Rational Fan »


Offline FulhamStu

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Re: Fulham’s defence must be improvedii
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2019, 06:52:39 AM »
Sorry - who is Max....but you're right about our defence....needs surgery and we may also need to look at keeper's

Maxime le Merchant

Look at some recordings of games, we make regular mistakes in defence and got away with it in the Championship but got punished in the Premier League.   Maybe we will get away with it again, however last time around it was partly hidden by our ball retention, we often had near 70% possession.

I firmly believe we need to buy a good defensive centre half and a right back if we are going to push for promotion.

Up front if we keep Mitro, with Ayité, Kebano and maybe Kamara we are strong enough as Cairney is largely an attacking player.  That said, I agree another striker is required to replace Sess who will go and if Mitro goes we need a re-think.

Midfield is our strongest area, I am sure Seri will go but with Anguissa if he stays, KMac, StefJo, TC, as well as some good youngsters we are very strong.

Offline The Rational Fan

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Re: Fulham’s defence must be improvedii
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2019, 07:02:17 AM »
Sorry - who is Max....but you're right about our defence....needs surgery and we may also need to look at keeper's

Maxime le Merchant

Look at some recordings of games, we make regular mistakes in defence and got away with it in the Championship but got punished in the Premier League.   Maybe we will get away with it again, however last time around it was partly hidden by our ball retention, we often had near 70% possession.

I firmly believe we need to buy a good defensive centre half and a right back if we are going to push for promotion.

Up front if we keep Mitro, with Ayité, Kebano and maybe Kamara we are strong enough as Cairney is largely an attacking player.  That said, I agree another striker is required to replace Sess who will go and if Mitro goes we need a re-think.

Midfield is our strongest area, I am sure Seri will go but with Anguissa if he stays, KMac, StefJo, TC, as well as some good youngsters we are very strong.

Do you seriously think Mitro, Cairney, Kamara, Kebano, Fonte and Atyie is a strong enough front four to push for automatic promotion?

To get 89 points, you need to beat the bottom half almost every game (72 points), not lose at home to top half teams (11 points), two away wins to top half teams (6 points) and make up any points lost against the bottom half teams with home victories to top half teams.

Sheffield United scored in 23 of 24 games against bottom half of the table teams. By contrast, Sheffield United dropped points in 13 of 24 games against teams that finished in the top half of the table; that's what is needed to get automatic promotion in the Championship.

I think our key to automatic promotion is getting close to 24 wins against the bottom half of the table. We need to be able to be beat them without Mitro or Cairney sometimes, because it is a long long season. I really think Kamara, Kebano, Fonte and Atyie cannot do it without Mitro and Cairney.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 07:40:22 AM by The Rational Fan »

Offline @jolslover

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Re: Fulham’s defence must be improvedii
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2019, 07:47:22 AM »
I think honestly our defence is good enough for automatics, Ream was one of most solid CBs in league last time we went up. If anything Le Marchand is a slightly better Ream. Mawson is a huge upgrade on Odoi as well. The only position we are weaker at is RB as I think Bryan and Targett are pretty much the same level.


Offline Facts Not Fiction

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Re: Fulham’s defence must be improvedii
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2019, 09:30:30 AM »
I think honestly our defence is good enough for automatics, Ream was one of most solid CBs in league last time we went up. If anything Le Marchand is a slightly better Ream. Mawson is a huge upgrade on Odoi as well. The only position we are weaker at is RB as I think Bryan and Targett are pretty much the same level.

Completely agree. The defence is in a very good position as it is, with new comings not necessarily needed. If we can improve, great.

Offline Facts Not Fiction

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Re: Fulham’s defence must be improvedii
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2019, 09:32:05 AM »
Sorry - who is Max....but you're right about our defence....needs surgery and we may also need to look at keeper's

Maxime le Merchant

Look at some recordings of games, we make regular mistakes in defence and got away with it in the Championship but got punished in the Premier League.   Maybe we will get away with it again, however last time around it was partly hidden by our ball retention, we often had near 70% possession.

I firmly believe we need to buy a good defensive centre half and a right back if we are going to push for promotion.

Up front if we keep Mitro, with Ayité, Kebano and maybe Kamara we are strong enough as Cairney is largely an attacking player.  That said, I agree another striker is required to replace Sess who will go and if Mitro goes we need a re-think.

Midfield is our strongest area, I am sure Seri will go but with Anguissa if he stays, KMac, StefJo, TC, as well as some good youngsters we are very strong.

Disagree with regards to the attack. If we lose Mitro, it needs major investment. A top ST, RW and LW are all needed if we want to push on. Kamara, Ayite and Kebano are squad players, no more.

Offline filham

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Re: Fulham’s defence must be improvedii
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2019, 10:11:04 AM »
The problem over the summer is deciding whether or not Mawson is going to be good enough to become that commanding centre back we need for next season in the Championship.

Before coming to the Cottage he had a good reputation, last season he suffered from injuries and we saw nothing to suggest he is up to the job required of him.

So do we rely on him or replace him.


Offline Nero

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Re: Fulham’s defence must be improvedii
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2019, 11:27:19 AM »
We need to forward think here, yes the defence may be good enough to get us out of the championship, but we need a defence that can do it on the premier league, we need to get most of that defence in place this season so we dont have 4 people unknown to each other a the begin of a new season in the premier league, if you can draw all the games 0-0 that 36 points that staying up

Offline 70sPimlico

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Re: Fulham’s defence must be improvedii
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2019, 11:33:25 AM »
The problem over the summer is deciding whether or not Mawson is going to be good enough to become that commanding centre back we need for next season in the Championship.

Before coming to the Cottage he had a good reputation, last season he suffered from injuries and we saw nothing to suggest he is up to the job required of him.

So do we rely on him or replace him.
I think he was showing real promise when he came into the side. I seem to remember he came in against Liverpool away and althpough we lost 2-0 we looked more solid. We then beat Southampton, got draws against Leicester and newcastle and wolves and beat Huddesrfield. Even the losses against chelsea and west ham, we looked better.

I think that was him done then and we didnt have a run of form like that for the rest of the season.

Personally, if we keep him and I think he'd be well out of order to leave, he'll be one of the best defenders in the championship.

Offline aaronmcguigan

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Re: Fulham’s defence must be improvedii
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2019, 12:14:21 PM »
I think it’s a waste of time bunking if our squad is good enough to get promoted.  The fact is it’s not good enough to survive in the premier league so we need to rebuild. What’s the point in keeping the same squad just to buy a heap of newbies next year again and keep that toxic cycle going?

What we need to do is to invest in talented potential, youth and hungry players capable of developing and improving into premier league players. Not the likes of Odoi, McDonald, Fonte,Ream etc . This group may do as backups this season but to rely on them and then kick them out next season only repeats our annual issues. I’d say the likes of James Justin (Luton) Che Adams (Birmingham) Jarrod Bowen (Hull) are all easily getable, would improve our squad and have potential of growing into future premier league players, even just to freshen the squad up to take away some toxicity of relegation.

Premier league loans I reckon should be used but kept to a minimum, and search for a future star. Piazon and Kalas slotted into our team but I think we are capable of finding a gem a la Harry Wilson or Harvey Barnes.


Offline ALG01

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Re: Fulham’s defence must be improvedii
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2019, 12:59:05 PM »
I just watched the last 30 minutes again of the fantastic 2-0 win in the Semi Final v Derby for the first time this season.

What you notice is our great possession play, but also the absolutely terrible mistakes made in defence.   Our back line in the Premier League was very similar and that back 4 and was frankly a relatively average defensive unit.  Great going forward yes, but made too many mistakes.  To even think that defence could handle the Premier League was madness and just re-confirmed my view that only really adding an injured Mawson was the great mistake of last summers transfer dealings.   
We love Tim Ream, but defensively he is not good enough, he made about 3 critical errors in that last 30 mins v Derby that could have cost us, the difference then was that Derby unlike most Premier teams did not punish us.

Max is a decent squad player but we need to sign at least one very good championship central defender as a top priority this summer.

I do agree but if you check back, very many of us said that the second the final whistle blew at wembley. There was seemingly endless posts here and elsewhere that absolutely said we need a new defence and a defensive midfielder. The only people that that seemed to pass by were the DoF and his team. The signing of Mawsom was just ridiculous, relying on a player that came injured as the only proper correct standard was negligent of the leadership. But what you say remains true as it was 12 months ago.

And let us get our own players not loanees, that is how to build a team.

Offline The Rock

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Re: Fulham’s defence must be improvedii
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2019, 01:06:32 PM »
I just watched the last 30 minutes again of the fantastic 2-0 win in the Semi Final v Derby for the first time this season.

What you notice is our great possession play, but also the absolutely terrible mistakes made in defence.   Our back line in the Premier League was very similar and that back 4 and was frankly a relatively average defensive unit.  Great going forward yes, but made too many mistakes.  To even think that defence could handle the Premier League was madness and just re-confirmed my view that only really adding an injured Mawson was the great mistake of last summers transfer dealings.   
We love Tim Ream, but defensively he is not good enough, he made about 3 critical errors in that last 30 mins v Derby that could have cost us, the difference then was that Derby unlike most Premier teams did not punish us.

Max is a decent squad player but we need to sign at least one very good championship central defender as a top priority this summer.

I do agree but if you check back, very many of us said that the second the final whistle blew at wembley. There was seemingly endless posts here and elsewhere that absolutely said we need a new defence and a defensive midfielder. The only people that that seemed to pass by were the DoF and his team. The signing of Mawsom was just ridiculous, relying on a player that came injured as the only proper correct standard was negligent of the leadership. But what you say remains true as it was 12 months ago.

And let us get our own players not loanees, that is how to build a team.

+1 . Some of these posts on here are pretty silly. This is it, nothing more nothing less.

We could do on forever about it, but if TK and team doesn't have the ability to find the proper players, its a moot point.

Online Sting of the North

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Re: Fulham’s defence must be improvedii
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2019, 01:19:07 PM »

I do agree but if you check back, very many of us said that the second the final whistle blew at wembley. There was seemingly endless posts here and elsewhere that absolutely said we need a new defence and a defensive midfielder. The only people that that seemed to pass by were the DoF and his team. The signing of Mawsom was just ridiculous, relying on a player that came injured as the only proper correct standard was negligent of the leadership. But what you say remains true as it was 12 months ago.

And let us get our own players not loanees, that is how to build a team.

How do you figure that the fact we needed defenders passed by the DoF and his team? They did bring in Mawson (youngish central defender with PL experience on the verge of the England squad, albeit injured), Chambers (lots of PL experience mainly as CB but also RB), TFM (lots of PL experience, mainly as RB, had been tested in the Dutch national team), Bryan (one of the best LBs in the Championship, similar level to Targett), MLM (capable of playing CB and LB), Anguissa (DM, albeit used to playing two defensive midfielders). That is 5 new defenders and a DM. It is extremely obvious that they were aware that we needed new defenders. Your argument in that regard holds no ground at all if you look at what actually happened.

They may have arguably been the wrong players however, but that is another point. 


Offline Carborundum

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Re: Fulham’s defence must be improvedii
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2019, 01:32:25 PM »
Our defence simply isn’t good enough.  We conceded too many in our promotion season and last year was a debacle.

Mawson may or may not be the answer, I just haven’t seen enough to know.  But I’ve seen enough of Tim Ream to tell me that his magical career-high season is highly unlikely to be repeated.  We must have more physical dominance than he will ever bring.

Offline Statto

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Re: Fulham’s defence must be improvedii
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2019, 01:37:24 PM »
I think it’s a waste of time bunking if our squad is good enough to get promoted.  The fact is it’s not good enough to survive in the premier league so we need to rebuild. What’s the point in keeping the same squad just to buy a heap of newbies next year again and keep that toxic cycle going?

I can't speak for others but my rationale would be that our team would have been more than capable of staying up if the likes of Button, Kalas, Norwood and Piazon had been retained (instead of Fabri, MLM, Vietto...) and if the remaining new faces had been signed fit and early and given a proper pre-season

In any case it's a bit of a moot point because we've neither the financial resources nor pulling power to sign better players whilst we're in the Championship

Offline Statto

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Re: Fulham’s defence must be improvedii
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2019, 01:37:56 PM »
I think honestly our defence is good enough for automatics, Ream was one of most solid CBs in league last time we went up. If anything Le Marchand is a slightly better Ream. Mawson is a huge upgrade on Odoi as well. The only position we are weaker at is RB as I think Bryan and Targett are pretty much the same level.

Inclined to agree, broadly

Online Sting of the North

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Re: Fulham’s defence must be improvedii
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2019, 01:46:42 PM »
Our defence simply isn’t good enough.  We conceded too many in our promotion season and last year was a debacle.

Mawson may or may not be the answer, I just haven’t seen enough to know.  But I’ve seen enough of Tim Ream to tell me that his magical career-high season is highly unlikely to be repeated.  We must have more physical dominance than he will ever bring.

Based only on goals conceded, we were still top 6 in the promotion season I believe. It is not as if we won 4-3 each week. Since we were top 2 in goals scored, that is not too shabby.

Offline aaronmcguigan

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Re: Fulham’s defence must be improvedii
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2019, 02:03:34 PM »
I think it’s a waste of time bunking if our squad is good enough to get promoted.  The fact is it’s not good enough to survive in the premier league so we need to rebuild. What’s the point in keeping the same squad just to buy a heap of newbies next year again and keep that toxic cycle going?

I can't speak for others but my rationale would be that our team would have been more than capable of staying up if the likes of Button, Kalas, Norwood and Piazon had been retained (instead of Fabri, MLM, Vietto...) and if the remaining new faces had been signed fit and early and given a proper pre-season

In any case it's a bit of a moot point because we've neither the financial resources nor pulling power to sign better players whilst we're in the Championship

Derby, Norwich and Sheff Utd  didnt have the financial resources to attract better players but all had decent seasons . They all effectively used the loan market without going crazy and bought in and brought through youth. Not a bad blueprint to work on whilst using Sess/ Mitro money with a bit of common sense. Easier said than done but we live in hope