Author Topic: Is this squad / team...........  (Read 1565 times)

Online Sting of the North

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Re: Is this squad / team...........
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2019, 11:05:52 AM »
It will be as successful as Jokanovic's team if it wins promotion this season.  If it doesn't then it will not be as successful.  Any other attempts at comparisons are either premature or largely down to opinion.  The objective is promotion as we have heard from several different places within the Club hierarchy.  That is the target.  If this team hits the target then we may muse as much as we wish to do so upon which promotion team was the better.

The question was, 'was it better.' Not would it be more succesful.

Yes, it probably is better. Will it bemore succesful? Who knows. Other factors such as luck with injuries play a part.

Do we have a much better way to assess how good the squad/team is, than by its eventual success? Maybe the OP just meant to ask whether we have individually better players overall, which I would say is a very different thing from having a better squad/team. My answer to the former is a definite yes, on the latter I am more inclined to answer like Toshes did, which essentially comes down to whether or not the many talented players are able to work as a successful team.

I'll admit though that having better players is a good starting point if you wish to be successful, but doesn't change the fact that in the long run it is a team game.

Offline The Rational Fan

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Re: Is this squad / team...........
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2019, 12:48:59 AM »
Our best promotion season team after christmas was awesome, but one game before christmas our forward line was Fonte, Johasen and Ojo, with Graham and Torres coming off the bench. We have clearly improved since then. In addition, FFC are not as dependent on Cairney and in 17/18 we dropped around 32 points with Cairney injuried, not playing a full game and/or returning from injury. Bobby Reid sort of injury proofs fulham from a huge loss of points if Cairney or Mitro aren’t playing.
To be fair the problems of 17/18 were a little bit more complicated than Cairney's fitness, and Mitro didn't even figure until after the winter window.  We had problems on the left (loss of Malone without replacement) and the resulting key issue of where to play R Sessegnon, something SJ pointed out as a conundrum that could have been avoided.  Plus the fact Cairney never really reached his best until the winter window resolved two key positions.  Both flanks could be problematic this season unless the partnerships can be made to work really effectively, and central midfield effectiveness is reduced if they do not.   

Fulham had money for one more player for the entire season, by not spending that money it now has enough for two more players for half a season, plus i assume we always planned one transfer in winter. With three additional players in the winter transfer window, we are better than 17/18 in terms of players.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 01:00:31 AM by The Rational Fan »

Offline toshes mate

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Re: Is this squad / team...........
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2019, 09:04:45 AM »
Our best promotion season team after christmas was awesome, but one game before christmas our forward line was Fonte, Johasen and Ojo, with Graham and Torres coming off the bench. We have clearly improved since then. In addition, FFC are not as dependent on Cairney and in 17/18 we dropped around 32 points with Cairney injuried, not playing a full game and/or returning from injury. Bobby Reid sort of injury proofs fulham from a huge loss of points if Cairney or Mitro aren’t playing.
To be fair the problems of 17/18 were a little bit more complicated than Cairney's fitness, and Mitro didn't even figure until after the winter window.  We had problems on the left (loss of Malone without replacement) and the resulting key issue of where to play R Sessegnon, something SJ pointed out as a conundrum that could have been avoided.  Plus the fact Cairney never really reached his best until the winter window resolved two key positions.  Both flanks could be problematic this season unless the partnerships can be made to work really effectively, and central midfield effectiveness is reduced if they do not.   

Fulham had money for one more player for the entire season, by not spending that money it now has enough for two more players for half a season, plus i assume we always planned one transfer in winter. With three additional players in the winter transfer window, we are better than 17/18 in terms of players.
I feel it is rather foolhardy to wish for a repeat of the unbeaten run from December onward to secure promotion, especially automatically since the playoffs are a lottery.  We have classically failed to cover key positions throughout TK's time as DoF, and it is still possible that will do us damage this time around.  I am looking to May 2020 and thinking is it really going to happen and I'm not so sure the fog in the crystal ball is altogether unexpected.


Offline The Rational Fan

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Re: Is this squad / team...........
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2019, 09:45:07 AM »
Our best promotion season team after christmas was awesome, but one game before christmas our forward line was Fonte, Johasen and Ojo, with Graham and Torres coming off the bench. We have clearly improved since then. In addition, FFC are not as dependent on Cairney and in 17/18 we dropped around 32 points with Cairney injuried, not playing a full game and/or returning from injury. Bobby Reid sort of injury proofs fulham from a huge loss of points if Cairney or Mitro aren’t playing.
To be fair the problems of 17/18 were a little bit more complicated than Cairney's fitness, and Mitro didn't even figure until after the winter window.  We had problems on the left (loss of Malone without replacement) and the resulting key issue of where to play R Sessegnon, something SJ pointed out as a conundrum that could have been avoided.  Plus the fact Cairney never really reached his best until the winter window resolved two key positions.  Both flanks could be problematic this season unless the partnerships can be made to work really effectively, and central midfield effectiveness is reduced if they do not.   

Fulham had money for one more player for the entire season, by not spending that money it now has enough for two more players for half a season, plus i assume we always planned one transfer in winter. With three additional players in the winter transfer window, we are better than 17/18 in terms of players.
I feel it is rather foolhardy to wish for a repeat of the unbeaten run from December onward to secure promotion, especially automatically since the playoffs are a lottery.  We have classically failed to cover key positions throughout TK's time as DoF, and it is still possible that will do us damage this time around.  I am looking to May 2020 and thinking is it really going to happen and I'm not so sure the fog in the crystal ball is altogether unexpected.

The current squad should do better than we did in the first half of 17/18, but if on 1st Jan 2020 we are three to six points behind second place with budget for three players for half a season, maybe it’s not too bad. Because we didn’t get Hector we are in a much better position for the winter transfer window especially important if injuries hit us between November to January.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 09:52:34 AM by The Rational Fan »

Offline Mince n Tatties

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Re: Is this squad / team...........
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2019, 09:56:50 AM »
Simple answer to the question is.....If we don't get promoted the squad will not be as good.😊

Offline The Rational Fan

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Re: Is this squad / team...........
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2019, 10:23:10 AM »
Simple answer to the question is.....If we don't get promoted the squad will not be as good.😊

I would argue that Sheffield United got promoted without a good squad, so surely a good squad can fail to get promoted. This is not football manager where you get the right players and you are guaranteed to win.


Offline Lighthouse

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Re: Is this squad / team...........
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2019, 10:39:35 AM »
The squad is better but I am not sure the team is close yet. Players as individuals may be better but we have looked a long way off being a team that can push for a place in the top 6. On saying that we must remember we didn't look like a good team the season we were in the playoffs until after Christmas.

Offline Mince n Tatties

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Re: Is this squad / team...........
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2019, 10:44:18 AM »
Simple answer to the question is.....If we don't get promoted the squad will not be as good.😊

I would argue that Sheffield United got promoted without a good squad, so surely a good squad can fail to get promoted. This is not football manager where you get the right players and you are guaranteed to win.

Problem you've got is you try to complicate simple things....Sheff Utd must have had a good squad or they wouldn't have gone up..Simple fact.
And the majority of that squad played Bournemouth off the park for periods on Sat....Fact.
And like I state this lot if they don't go up want be as good as the promotion squad...Fact.

Offline The Rational Fan

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Re: Is this squad / team...........
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2019, 11:04:20 AM »
Simple answer to the question is.....If we don't get promoted the squad will not be as good.😊

I would argue that Sheffield United got promoted without a good squad, so surely a good squad can fail to get promoted. This is not football manager where you get the right players and you are guaranteed to win.

Problem you've got is you try to complicate simple things....Sheff Utd must have had a good squad or they wouldn't have gone up..Simple fact.
And the majority of that squad played Bournemouth off the park for periods on Sat....Fact.
And like I state this lot if they don't go up want be as good as the promotion squad...Fact.

I would say the England WC 2006 was a quality squad even if on-field results didn't achieve the results the latest squad has.


Offline toshes mate

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Re: Is this squad / team...........
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2019, 11:29:38 AM »
I would say the England WC 2006 was a quality squad even if on-field results didn't achieve the results the latest squad has.
The measures contained in this thread are 'better', 'good', 'successful', and, thanks to you, 'quality'. 

And yet, we follow a results oriented sport - the professional association football pyramid - which rewards teams who win games with a chance of promotion.  Winning games is largely a random event which tends to happen more often to teams who play with confidence, authority, discipline, organisation, clever tactics and player chemistry.  The better the tactics and chemistry (etc) the better the chance a good player of quality can perform to expectation or even above that expectation.  The greater the chance of players reaching or exceeding potential performance the greater the chance that random outcomes will be wins.  Successful clubs have successful hierarchies if only for a season at a time (i.e. when they win something big).

The key point is that every employee and executive is part of a team and someone somewhere has to make that team click.  Are we better than we were.  No, simply because we did have a decent head coach  for a while but now we have a guy with a hell of a stunt to pull off in his first whole season (and I do hope it is a whole season) of making this team work to expectation.   

Offline I Ronic

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Re: Is this squad / team...........
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2019, 12:00:41 PM »
The fact that most of the incoming players have experience of this league and how to get promoted out of it. For me makes it a better squad. If it hadn't been for FFP how many of the incoming deals would have been straight transfers? An ordinary loan gives the Club who has the players registration the upper hand if at the end of the season you want to buy them. As we learned with both Mitro and Targett. A loan with a buy clause would suit us (in this situation) but surely be a much tougher deal to pull off.
None of our loanies in our promotion year would of had a clue what was going to happen to them come the end of the season. Even though there's no sure thing in football, as in life I'm willing to bet our current crop are pretty confident that if we're promoted they'll be with us next season. another reason for me to believe this is a better starting squad.

Offline Forever Fulham

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Re: Is this squad / team...........
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2019, 01:07:51 PM »
True team chemistry--had it under Slava until the band got broken up and the wheels came off.  An elusive ephemeral thing.  The signs look good this season under Scotty.  But it's early.


Offline Facts Not Fiction

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Re: Is this squad / team...........
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2019, 01:11:52 PM »
We missed Fredericks when playing with Jokanovic.

Parker’s system relies less on the full backs to provide width, rather they hold the defensive line and get involved with midfield ball retention.

Offline Forever Fulham

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Re: Is this squad / team...........
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2019, 01:21:53 PM »
We missed Fredericks when playing with Jokanovic.

Parker’s system relies less on the full backs to provide width, rather they hold the defensive line and get involved with midfield ball retention.
Absolutely right.  Last time in this league we had fullbacks bombing forward, and it gave defenses fits.  But that kind of system only works if everyone does their part well in transition once possession  is lost.  Now, wiith an improved midfield, the backs don't have to wander so far from home.  You'd think that means we won't get scored on so much this season.  But we play a gutsy style of football now.  One errant pass from the back and...

Offline toshes mate

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Re: Is this squad / team...........
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2019, 01:31:58 PM »
We missed Fredericks when playing with Jokanovic.

Parker’s system relies less on the full backs to provide width, rather they hold the defensive line and get involved with midfield ball retention.
I am hoping that system will develop into something more akin to Jokanovic's tactics once partnerships develop between backs and wingers.  It took quite a while for Jokanovic's sides to gel whenever changes in personnel were encountered.  Parker has done much better than I expected so far.


Offline Bill2

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Re: Is this squad / team...........
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2019, 01:36:43 PM »
Yes, good back up in the middle and up front just not sure about defence. In promotion year not sure we had anybody apart from starting 11.

Offline SuffolkWhite

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Re: Is this squad / team...........
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2019, 01:56:31 PM »
In answer to the Op, Yes.

I think our defence is no better or worse but our midfield is better with Mitro up top supported by Reid.