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Hector To Join In January

Started by Deeping_white, September 05, 2019, 04:03:07 PM

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Statto

#60
Agree he should partner Mawson IMO

Personally hope/reckon that by the end of the season we'll see this back five. If Rodak and Sessegnon develop well it could be fantastic young defence for a club at our level

Rodak

Sessegnon - Hector - Mawson - Bryan

filham

Quote from: YoungsBitter on September 07, 2019, 05:13:45 AM
They keep saying he cannot play for the First team until January 1st but can he play for PL2/U23? 4 moths of training is all well and good but match fitness would be good to have too.
Match fitness is going to be a problem, I guess come January 1st he will have to be given gradually increasing game time and that he will be fully match fit come the end of January.

Whitesideup

Quote from: General on September 08, 2019, 03:27:50 PM
Based on all our other centre backs not being good enough in this league and Hector having experience and pace I expect he'll partner Mawson at CB.
Totally disagree that Ream is not good enough for this league. Both he and Odoi acquitted themselves exceptionally well in the second half of our promotion season, so I suspect this comment is based on defensive performances in the premier league  ... and Mawson played there as well, even if only a limited number of matches.


AnOldBrownie

Quote from: Whitesideup on September 08, 2019, 06:25:10 PM
Quote from: General on September 08, 2019, 03:27:50 PM
Based on all our other centre backs not being good enough in this league and Hector having experience and pace I expect he'll partner Mawson at CB.
Totally disagree that Ream is not good enough for this league. Both he and Odoi acquitted themselves exceptionally well in the second half of our promotion season, so I suspect this comment is based on defensive performances in the premier league  ... and Mawson played there as well, even if only a limited number of matches.

I actually rate Ream more than Mawson, even if Mawson stays healthy.

Woolly Mammoth

On paper a combination of Mawson and Hector looks appetising. Nevertheless, during the course of the season, and due to injuries, loss of form and even a suspension, we will need all hands on deck, which includes Ream who is in good form, then there is Sessegnon and Bryan, not forgetting Christie, Odoi, and MLM, perhaps SP at times may even go for three at the back Mawson, Hector and Ream, with wing backs. As a plan B. But Hector is another string to our bow, he can help dominate in the air, which is something we are currently not very good at. 
Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.

Statto

#65
Quote from: Whitesideup on September 08, 2019, 06:25:10 PM
Quote from: General on September 08, 2019, 03:27:50 PM
Based on all our other centre backs not being good enough in this league and Hector having experience and pace I expect he'll partner Mawson at CB.
Totally disagree that Ream is not good enough for this league. Both he and Odoi acquitted themselves exceptionally well in the second half of our promotion season, so I suspect this comment is based on defensive performances in the premier league  ... and Mawson played there as well, even if only a limited number of matches.

I had doubts about Ream this season based on the PL performances but then he looked very good against Blackburn. But since then he's looked poor IMO - certainly below Mawson and maybe even below the standard we need if we're to compete for the top 2.

As for Odoi, IMO he was never at the standard an aspiring top 2 teams needs at CB. Even during the second half of the promotion season he worried me and I suspect only kept his place because no one wants to change a winning team. I consider it both astounding and criminal that he continued to start games at CB in the PL, and I wouldn't want him anywhere near the CB spots this season. However, I do think he can make a good full back, and a great utility player with a top professional attitude.   


The Rational Fan

#66
Quote from: Statto on September 08, 2019, 08:17:07 PM
Quote from: Whitesideup on September 08, 2019, 06:25:10 PM
Quote from: General on September 08, 2019, 03:27:50 PM
Based on all our other centre backs not being good enough in this league and Hector having experience and pace I expect he'll partner Mawson at CB.
Totally disagree that Ream is not good enough for this league. Both he and Odoi acquitted themselves exceptionally well in the second half of our promotion season, so I suspect this comment is based on defensive performances in the premier league  ... and Mawson played there as well, even if only a limited number of matches.

I had doubts about Ream this season based on the PL performances but then he looked very good against Blackburn. But since then he's looked poor IMO - certainly below Mawson and maybe even below the standard we need if we're to compete for the top 2.

As for Odoi, IMO he was never at the standard an aspiring top 2 teams needs at CB. Even during the second half of the promotion season he worried me and I suspect only kept his place because no one wants to change a winning team. I consider it both astounding and criminal that he continued to start games at CB in the PL, and I wouldn't want him anywhere near the CB spots this season. However, I do think he can make a good full back, and a great utility player with a top professional attitude.

Ream and Odoi are great members of the squad, both will probably spend significant time on the bench, especially in the second half of the season, but in the marathon that is the championship, it is having a third centre back available and a utility defender on the bench that make the difference of those few points that get you automatically promoted.

Riversider

Quote from: Statto on September 08, 2019, 03:37:02 PM
Agree he should partner Mawson IMO

Personally hope/reckon that by the end of the season we'll see this back five. If Rodak and Sessegnon develop well it could be fantastic young defence for a club at our level

Rodak

Sessegnon - Hector - Mawson - Bryan


I hope beyond hope, that by the end of the season we have brought in a Premier League keeper, Alex McCarthy would be a massive upgrade.

ashteadFFC

Very pleased with this signing - looks like he can carry the ball out from the back - also quick...


General

Can we please bare in mind that it is unlikely that he or any other of our defensive line barring perhaps sessegnon and Mawson have the quality necessary to succeed at premiership level.

Statto

#70
Quote from: General on September 09, 2019, 12:24:11 PM
Can we please bare in mind that it is unlikely that he or any other of our defensive line barring perhaps sessegnon and Mawson have the quality necessary to succeed at premiership level.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I disagree personally. We'll be upgrading 3 out of 4 positions with better players than we had last time we were in the PL (Mawson > Ream, Hector > Odoi and Sessegnon > Christie). Personally I reckon that's good enough for a newly-promoted team.

In any case, new transfers carry flop risk and will also take time to adapt, so if we were to go up, I wouldn't want to be making more than one change to the back four anyway.   

Whitesideup

Quote from: Statto on September 08, 2019, 08:17:07 PM
Quote from: Whitesideup on September 08, 2019, 06:25:10 PM
Quote from: General on September 08, 2019, 03:27:50 PM
Based on all our other centre backs not being good enough in this league and Hector having experience and pace I expect he'll partner Mawson at CB.
Totally disagree that Ream is not good enough for this league. Both he and Odoi acquitted themselves exceptionally well in the second half of our promotion season, so I suspect this comment is based on defensive performances in the premier league  ... and Mawson played there as well, even if only a limited number of matches.

I had doubts about Ream this season based on the PL performances but then he looked very good against Blackburn. But since then he's looked poor IMO - certainly below Mawson and maybe even below the standard we need if we're to compete for the top 2.

As for Odoi, IMO he was never at the standard an aspiring top 2 teams needs at CB. Even during the second half of the promotion season he worried me and I suspect only kept his place because no one wants to change a winning team. I consider it both astounding and criminal that he continued to start games at CB in the PL, and I wouldn't want him anywhere near the CB spots this season. However, I do think he can make a good full back, and a great utility player with a top professional attitude.   
Well... Statto... you have been watching different games. Simple fact - form of the team with Ream and Odoi in the second half of our promotion season were definitely worthy of a top 2 team. The results clearly demonstrate that. To suggest they were the weak link is spurious at best.

"Criminal" - allowing for hyperbole  .. simply nonsense.

I will agree though that Odoi is versatile, a true professional .. and that his best position is right-back. I will go further and say that he is our best right-back.

To suggest Mawson has been playing better than Ream  .. you have been at different games.

But it's good that opinions differ as agreeing all the time would be dull.



Statto

Quote from: Whitesideup on September 09, 2019, 08:28:17 PM
Simple fact - form of the team with Ream and Odoi in the second half of our promotion season were definitely worthy of a top 2 team. The results clearly demonstrate that. To suggest they were the weak link is spurious at best.

Agree with the rest of your post but the obvious counter-argument to this point would be that the form of the team with Ream in the full season 15/16 was worthy of a team that finished 20th. And 18th the year before with Bolton. And your reasoning would also mean all those players like Martin and Piazon in our team for the second half of the 16/17 season (when our form was also equivalent to a top 2 team) are top 2 standard. So plainly you cannot make conclusive judgments about an individual player's ability based on the position a team with him in it featured one year.     


mrmicawbers

People are talking about match fitness and his lack of it.Does the effect a central defender as much.Match sharpness maybe.

The Rational Fan

#74
Quote from: Statto on September 09, 2019, 01:15:51 PM
Quote from: General on September 09, 2019, 12:24:11 PM
Can we please bare in mind that it is unlikely that he or any other of our defensive line barring perhaps sessegnon and Mawson have the quality necessary to succeed at premiership level.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I disagree personally. We'll be upgrading 3 out of 4 positions with better players than we had last time we were in the PL (Mawson > Ream, Hector > Odoi and Sessegnon > Christie). Personally I reckon that's good enough for a newly-promoted team.

In any case, new transfers carry flop risk and will also take time to adapt, so if we were to go up, I wouldn't want to be making more than one change to the back four anyway.   

Sam Allardyce pointed out that spending £100m on a new starting XI is never going to keep a team up. He believes you need to get promoted with eight starters from the promotion season and then spend £33m each upgrade three positions with quality players totalling £100m.

We have at least four players that could be premier league starters now and at least another four that could prove to be premier league starters soon, plus we may pick up one or two potential starters during the winter transfer window (such as Hector). Making that magically objective of eight starters possible.


Milo

Mawson a weak link in our current team.

Weakest passer, over reliant on passing sideways to Ream as an outlet.

Just as shaky as the others from a defensive perspective too.

Bring back Odoi if things don't improve in 2-3 months! But by then, this new bloke will be here won't he.

toshes mate

Like most things in life it isn't the individual brilliance or ability of a single component in comparison to other single components that matters.  It is the way the components link with other components that matters.  In singing the praises of Odoi he is a consummate team professional who does a very decent job wherever he plays and no matter who his team mates are.  Just what that is worth for any team is incalculable.  Is Mawson better than Ream?  It really only matters via the ease with which we accumulate points and stop conceding goals.  You play what works and not what looks superior on paper. 

The promotion team of 2018 was just about working as a unit prior to the arrivals of Targett and Mitrovic but was much improved upon by their arrivals.  The PL team never really got going since by the first time they showed some bite and resolve (the Anfield Game) Jokanovic was already all but gone.  The arrivals had improved nothing no matter how good as individual components they were and that did not essentially change at any point during the whole season.  This season we have a similar scenario to the last two seasons developing, whereby slow starts have kept us all guessing as to where it'll eventually lead us.  I was hoping for a better resolve from the start but we seem to still have this inability to do so and be so.  I have no idea why it takes us so long to get out of the blocks.     

Whitesideup

#77
Quote from: Statto on September 09, 2019, 09:12:45 PM
Quote from: Whitesideup on September 09, 2019, 08:28:17 PM
Simple fact - form of the team with Ream and Odoi in the second half of our promotion season were definitely worthy of a top 2 team. The results clearly demonstrate that. To suggest they were the weak link is spurious at best.

Agree with the rest of your post but the obvious counter-argument to this point would be that the form of the team with Ream in the full season 15/16 was worthy of a team that finished 20th. And 18th the year before with Bolton. And your reasoning would also mean all those players like Martin and Piazon in our team for the second half of the 16/17 season (when our form was also equivalent to a top 2 team) are top 2 standard. So plainly you cannot make conclusive judgments about an individual player's ability based on the position a team with him in it featured one year.     


Thank you Statto. Good to see a reasoned argument. Bolton were poor, but Ream was rated as possibly their best player. A decent centre-half does not save a team from failure. Piazon was not even a regular starter ...and Martin on his day was a good championship centre -forward, but  maybe not the most committed. So I don't see how my point is invalidated by your argument. The spine of the team, centre-halves and central midfield, and a decent centre forward, are amongst the most key roles, so I would argue that without a strong spine, a team is unlikely to succeed. Ream and Odoi were strong. Well, happy to accept you do not share the view, but it is a logical and fair one. And one also based on observation at the games at the time.

PS And I would go as far as to say that I think Ream has been one of our most consistent, best-performing players so far this season, albeit relatively few games.


Carborundum

This fellow seems plenty good enough for the Premier League.  Whether or not depends on three factors:

Fulham actually getting there (obviously)

Him keeping fit and working hard at his game; and

How we set up in the PL.  At that level if we aim to play a narrow four, relatively unadventurous midfield and keep things tight, (I.e Royball 2.0) I'd expect him to look terrific as an aerially dominant CB dealing with crosses from wingers or fullbacks shown the outside.  If we go down the score-one-more-than-you route, he'll probably be as harum scarum as his immediate predecessors.

Ream can just about pull off CB in the Championship.  He's welcome as a squad player and flies our owner's flag with humility and dignity.  But we all know that at PL level he gets monstered all season long.  To show ambition, we need Hector and I look forward to seeing him play. 

Jim©

Quote from: Milo on September 10, 2019, 07:13:38 AM
Mawson a weak link in our current team.

Weakest passer, over reliant on passing sideways to Ream as an outlet.


I think his passing has got better. In the Cardiff game his passing was decent and he hit two or three very good long balls as well as carrying the ball forward a little more. He's getting better all the time I think- that bombardment we had with 10 in the last 15 mins we'd have conceded from a few years ago...