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Betts is shocking

Started by DevonFFC, September 14, 2019, 02:10:35 PM

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Nick Bateman

My main issue with Bette "not-on-your"nelli is how he constantly slows the game down when the attack is playing the ball around quickly - he is in his own world pretending he is confident on the ball when he isn't, pedantically taking an age to kick the ball 3 yards to a foolhardy defender who comes back for the ball and encourages Betts to pursue his false bravado.  Ever since the rule change allowing short goal kicks more and more 'keepers are slowing the game down and bringing the opposition deep into one's half, which makes it harder to play out.

Parker is usually astute at seeing short-comings but he still has not addressed this issue. One cannot have two parts of the team playing at different tempos.

It was a foul but Fulham should always have a 'minder' on one's goalkeeper, especially a tattooed, cross-eyed, pirate yob like Charlie Austin barging into the 'keeper while the rest of the defence seems oblivious and then hitting him to cause the mistake.
Nick Bateman "knows his footie"

WindyCity

Quote from: toshes mate on September 15, 2019, 09:57:06 AM
And so, for me, yesterday was a good indication that, all things being equal, we will move steadily into the top three as the season progresses.   

I wish I shared your optimism, but right now I can't.  It just wasn't this game v West Brom, but several others so far this season where FFC has absolutely left points on the table, at least 7 in total so far, maybe more. 

For me to share as you do, I really need to see 2-3 games in a row of quality, including max point obtainment outings.

COYW!!

toshes mate

Quote from: WindyCity on September 15, 2019, 03:49:45 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on September 15, 2019, 09:57:06 AM
And so, for me, yesterday was a good indication that, all things being equal, we will move steadily into the top three as the season progresses.   

I wish I shared your optimism, but right now I can't.  It just wasn't this game v West Brom, but several others so far this season where FFC has absolutely left points on the table, at least 7 in total so far, maybe more. 

For me to share as you do, I really need to see 2-3 games in a row of quality, including max point obtainment outings.

COYW!!
Please do not get my message wrong.  I am as disappointed as you are about the points literally thrown away, but the fact is the message that we are not getting those points from matches we should have  got those points from is much better than saying we didn't deserve anything from those games which was the tale told in our promotion season.  I am simply looking for improvements as each game comes and goes, and, for the last three there have been enough to keep my spirits higher than they have been watching FFC since that promotion season.   We not at the optimum level but, barring silly kneejerks, we are, IMHO, on track to be there well before Xmas (for once).


Facts Not Fiction

Quote from: Southcoastffc on September 15, 2019, 02:34:09 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on September 15, 2019, 12:32:36 PM
Quote from: LittleErn on September 15, 2019, 11:51:14 AM
Quote from: bahay18 on September 14, 2019, 03:00:24 PM
he was actually having a good game until then . On the goal he decided to get in a fight with austin rather than watch the ball . Austin definitely shoved him but no chance the ref would see that . For sure he is running out of chances . That said , i think the manager was more at fault . We lost the midfield after 60 mins after their changes and we needed another tackler in the middle. Bobby reid wasn't in it and should have been  replaced . Could have also taken off knockhaert or cav , both stopped tracking back and went missing after we scored. Interesting knockhaert said after the game they thought it was game over at 1-0 and thats exactly what it looked like. Hopefully a bit of international week hangover and we get back to it next week.

+1 - Betts isn't a strong enough presence - though he is an integral part of our playing out from the back and does that well.

His distribution is awful.
Really?   https://www.fulhamfc.com/first-team/2019_2020/league/home/west-bromwich-albion#matchstatistics

Passing it 2 yards to Mawson isn't hard.

Southcoastffc

Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on September 15, 2019, 08:28:47 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on September 15, 2019, 02:34:09 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on September 15, 2019, 12:32:36 PM
Quote from: LittleErn on September 15, 2019, 11:51:14 AM
Quote from: bahay18 on September 14, 2019, 03:00:24 PM
he was actually having a good game until then . On the goal he decided to get in a fight with austin rather than watch the ball . Austin definitely shoved him but no chance the ref would see that . For sure he is running out of chances . That said , i think the manager was more at fault . We lost the midfield after 60 mins after their changes and we needed another tackler in the middle. Bobby reid wasn't in it and should have been  replaced . Could have also taken off knockhaert or cav , both stopped tracking back and went missing after we scored. Interesting knockhaert said after the game they thought it was game over at 1-0 and thats exactly what it looked like. Hopefully a bit of international week hangover and we get back to it next week.

+1 - Betts isn't a strong enough presence - though he is an integral part of our playing out from the back and does that well.

His distribution is awful.
Really?   https://www.fulhamfc.com/first-team/2019_2020/league/home/west-bromwich-albion#matchstatistics

Passing it 2 yards to Mawson isn't hard.
No, it isn't hard. But his distribution yesterday is recorded at 100% accuracy.  Fact or fiction?
The world is made up of electrons, protons, neurons, possibly muons and, definitely, morons.

Facts Not Fiction

Quote from: Southcoastffc on September 15, 2019, 08:51:25 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on September 15, 2019, 08:28:47 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on September 15, 2019, 02:34:09 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on September 15, 2019, 12:32:36 PM
Quote from: LittleErn on September 15, 2019, 11:51:14 AM
Quote from: bahay18 on September 14, 2019, 03:00:24 PM
he was actually having a good game until then . On the goal he decided to get in a fight with austin rather than watch the ball . Austin definitely shoved him but no chance the ref would see that . For sure he is running out of chances . That said , i think the manager was more at fault . We lost the midfield after 60 mins after their changes and we needed another tackler in the middle. Bobby reid wasn't in it and should have been  replaced . Could have also taken off knockhaert or cav , both stopped tracking back and went missing after we scored. Interesting knockhaert said after the game they thought it was game over at 1-0 and thats exactly what it looked like. Hopefully a bit of international week hangover and we get back to it next week.

+1 - Betts isn't a strong enough presence - though he is an integral part of our playing out from the back and does that well.

His distribution is awful.
Really?   https://www.fulhamfc.com/first-team/2019_2020/league/home/west-bromwich-albion#matchstatistics

Passing it 2 yards to Mawson isn't hard.
No, it isn't hard. But his distribution yesterday is recorded at 100% accuracy.  Fact or fiction?

Yes, because none of his goal kicks left our own half.

He has to resort to this, because his distribution is shocking. If you went to games instead of relying on facts, you'd know.


Statto

I go to games and IMO his distribution is fine.

Where he plays it short, I suspect that's a tactical instruction rather than his own personal choice. Same goes for the alleged "time-wasting".

His problem is the more basic stuff - he's just not a great shotstopper, and can't deal with crosses.

Facts Not Fiction

Quote from: Statto on September 15, 2019, 10:57:14 PM
I go to games and IMO his distribution is fine.

Where he plays it short, I suspect that's a tactical instruction rather than his own personal choice. Same goes for the alleged "time-wasting".

His problem is the more basic stuff - he's just not a great shotstopper, and can't deal with crosses.

Reckon with Rodak in goal, the more direct route to Knockaert or Cavaleiro may be used. We play it short I agree because of Parker, but also because Bettinelli can't distribute the ball more than 5 yards.

Matt10

I would agree that he's been off the mark lately. I also would like to see Rodak. However, the goal he conceded shouldn't have happened because he should expect that physicality, and instead was acting as if a foul should've been called. That's where his focus was - and that is what was shocking to see. It was the most basic of not being switched on. He got caught out - and it cost us dearly. I hope Parker addresses that lack of focus for the next match.


Southcoastffc

Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on September 15, 2019, 10:25:57 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on September 15, 2019, 08:51:25 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on September 15, 2019, 08:28:47 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on September 15, 2019, 02:34:09 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on September 15, 2019, 12:32:36 PM
Quote from: LittleErn on September 15, 2019, 11:51:14 AM
Quote from: bahay18 on September 14, 2019, 03:00:24 PM
he was actually having a good game until then . On the goal he decided to get in a fight with austin rather than watch the ball . Austin definitely shoved him but no chance the ref would see that . For sure he is running out of chances . That said , i think the manager was more at fault . We lost the midfield after 60 mins after their changes and we needed another tackler in the middle. Bobby reid wasn't in it and should have been  replaced . Could have also taken off knockhaert or cav , both stopped tracking back and went missing after we scored. Interesting knockhaert said after the game they thought it was game over at 1-0 and thats exactly what it looked like. Hopefully a bit of international week hangover and we get back to it next week.

+1 - Betts isn't a strong enough presence - though he is an integral part of our playing out from the back and does that well.

His distribution is awful.
Really?   https://www.fulhamfc.com/first-team/2019_2020/league/home/west-bromwich-albion#matchstatistics

Passing it 2 yards to Mawson isn't hard.
No, it isn't hard. But his distribution yesterday is recorded at 100% accuracy.  Fact or fiction?

Yes, because none of his goal kicks left our own half.

He has to resort to this, because his distribution is shocking. If you went to games instead of relying on facts, you'd know.
think back to Sat. Which keeper's distribution was poor and attracted derisory jeers?  Not Betts was it. And I go to virtually all home games ans some aways.   Facts not Fiction says your handle........hmmmm?   Maybe Pride and Prejudice might suit.
The world is made up of electrons, protons, neurons, possibly muons and, definitely, morons.

Facts Not Fiction

Quote from: Southcoastffc on September 16, 2019, 08:06:38 AM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on September 15, 2019, 10:25:57 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on September 15, 2019, 08:51:25 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on September 15, 2019, 08:28:47 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on September 15, 2019, 02:34:09 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on September 15, 2019, 12:32:36 PM
Quote from: LittleErn on September 15, 2019, 11:51:14 AM
Quote from: bahay18 on September 14, 2019, 03:00:24 PM
he was actually having a good game until then . On the goal he decided to get in a fight with austin rather than watch the ball . Austin definitely shoved him but no chance the ref would see that . For sure he is running out of chances . That said , i think the manager was more at fault . We lost the midfield after 60 mins after their changes and we needed another tackler in the middle. Bobby reid wasn't in it and should have been  replaced . Could have also taken off knockhaert or cav , both stopped tracking back and went missing after we scored. Interesting knockhaert said after the game they thought it was game over at 1-0 and thats exactly what it looked like. Hopefully a bit of international week hangover and we get back to it next week.

+1 - Betts isn't a strong enough presence - though he is an integral part of our playing out from the back and does that well.

His distribution is awful.
Really?   https://www.fulhamfc.com/first-team/2019_2020/league/home/west-bromwich-albion#matchstatistics

Passing it 2 yards to Mawson isn't hard.
No, it isn't hard. But his distribution yesterday is recorded at 100% accuracy.  Fact or fiction?

Yes, because none of his goal kicks left our own half.

He has to resort to this, because his distribution is shocking. If you went to games instead of relying on facts, you'd know.
think back to Sat. Which keeper's distribution was poor and attracted derisory jeers?  Not Betts was it. And I go to virtually all home games ans some aways.   Facts not Fiction says your handle........hmmmm?   Maybe Pride and Prejudice might suit.

If you honestly think Bettinelli is a good distributor of the ball, then there is no point in arguing my point as you're just lying to yourself.

Sting of the North

Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on September 16, 2019, 08:19:51 AM

If you honestly think Bettinelli is a good distributor of the ball, then there is no point in arguing my point as you're just lying to yourself.

That's a terribly weak argument, basically saying that if people don't agree with you then you won't bother discussing. What's the point of being on a discussion forum then?


toshes mate

It is actually the players who are not in possession who make it possible for the player in possession to be a good distributor of the ball.  It takes at least two players to make a good pass possible in any team sport.

Jim©

 think back to Sat. Which keeper's distribution was poor and attracted derisory jeers?  Not Betts was it. And I go to virtually all home games ans some aways.   Facts not Fiction says your handle........hmmmm?   Maybe Pride and Prejudice might suit.
[/quote]

Betts does not make saves like Johnstone (?) did. Nor the Forest keeper making multiple saves. He conceded a goal v Barnsley that I'd be embarassed for my U15s to concede. Cardiff goal was poor.
Too many points given up by not making saves, sod the distribution, it's a minor factor here and not hugely relevant to why he should play. He has one of the lowest save ratios in the division (and we've conceded the least amount of shots on target).
I'm a big fan of Parker, but will be a little bit gutted if Betts starts next game.

Facts Not Fiction

Quote from: Sting of the North on September 16, 2019, 08:36:01 AM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on September 16, 2019, 08:19:51 AM

If you honestly think Bettinelli is a good distributor of the ball, then there is no point in arguing my point as you're just lying to yourself.

That's a terribly weak argument, basically saying that if people don't agree with you then you won't bother discussing. What's the point of being on a discussion forum then?

His distribution is poor, that's a fact. Watching the 1 game of Rodak further emphasised the point.


Statto

Quote from: Sting of the North on September 16, 2019, 08:36:01 AM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on September 16, 2019, 08:19:51 AM

If you honestly think Bettinelli is a good distributor of the ball, then there is no point in arguing my point as you're just lying to yourself.

That's a terribly weak argument, basically saying that if people don't agree with you then you won't bother discussing. What's the point of being on a discussion forum then?

+1
I agree with FNF's overriding point that Rodak should start next match but clearly there's no evidence to support the distribution point

Statto

Quote from: Jim© on September 16, 2019, 09:33:45 AM
Betts does not make saves like Johnstone (?) did. Nor the Forest keeper making multiple saves. He conceded a goal v Barnsley that I'd be embarassed for my U15s to concede. Cardiff goal was poor.
Too many points given up by not making saves, sod the distribution, it's a minor factor here and not hugely relevant to why he should play. He has one of the lowest save ratios in the division (and we've conceded the least amount of shots on target).
I'm a big fan of Parker, but will be a little bit gutted if Betts starts next game.

+100, exactly my thoughts on the debate

simplyfulham

Quote from: Matt10 on September 16, 2019, 01:34:42 AM
However, the goal he conceded shouldn't have happened because he should expect that physicality, and instead was acting as if a foul should've been called.

I don't know if it's been mentioned already in this thread (there's a lot of drivel already on these 4 pages that I don't have the time or energy to go back re-reading) but I feel it's worth picking on that point of the Austin foul on Betts.

I'm not surprised that it didn't get picked up on and if you can watch the incident back frame by frame you can clearly see Austin's arm is holding down Bett's right arm - the arm he would have used to catch the ball or push it over the cross bar.

However, for me the bigger issue is why there is not an outfield player marking up Austin. It's Austin who has a free header from a corner about 5 mins later which he probably should have scored so clearly we didn't address this issue at all. Something bigger has gone wrong here then anything to do with Bett's. It looks like it should have been Mitro marking Austin but I can't tell for sure. You can't let a target man like Austin roam around the box unmarked at corners that's for sure.

You need to have a player on Austin to give the keeper some breathing space, that's the reason we've conceded that goal.


simplyfulham

Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on September 15, 2019, 10:25:57 PM

Yes, because none of his goal kicks left our own half.

He has to resort to this, because his distribution is shocking. If you went to games instead of relying on facts, you'd know.

You're talking absolute nonsense once again.

Half of passing or distribution, is picking successful options. If he's not missed one then quite frankly that backs up his decision making in where to pass the ball. Who gives one about how far that ball is travelling.

Dixie

I didn't see a foul on Betts at the time and watching it again, i still can't see anything that would constitute a foul...
It's frustrating that he just palmed it onto the head of the WBA player, but I still find myself backing Bettinelli and hoping that he starts the next game. Why is that?

One comment in this thread mentions the 'witch hunt' against Rico last season and i have to confess that every time his name was announced on the team sheet i would groan and grumble - how much harder could he try to get dropped without actually being dropped?!!

I think my continued support for Betts is based on the following:
1 - That promotion season! Bettinelli coming into the side coincides with our upturn in fortunes (in my head anyway!)
2 - The Academy factor - one of our own etc.
3 - I thought that, aside from the obvious mistake, he played pretty well on Saturday, commanding the box well and not giving away possession unnecessarily. The Cardiff goal looks a bit bad, but if the ball bobbles over your arm, what can you do?

Maybe my bias is just too strong, but i think Betts deserves a bit more time... COYW!
"Dixie" Dean Coney - the legend lives on!