This team

[The Rational Fan]

I wonder if Fulham have a specialist coach for "Corners, Crosses and Set Pieces", something is lacking in those areas.

[Skatzoffc]

The idea that you throw  a group of players together and they should gel because they are professionals is fundamentally flawed for reasons I dont have time to explain. Add to that the fact fact that we are playing in a possession based style which takes much longer to develop tactically than a defensive counter atttacking style and some of the comments made on here are way off the mark. We havent steamrollered every team with results,but apart from the Barnsley defeat have shown progress in every game. Individual errors have cost us points,but we are creating plenty of chances and even teams like WBA and seasoned trainers like Billic dont have an answer. They got the point but the game did not go how they wanted at any point,as the desperation on this unbeaten teams coach clearly showed.
Its early days and we will start putting results together. We are 3 points off 2nd place !!!!! Some posts on here criticising SP and the team are way over the top . Its frustrating we are not top of the table ,but we are not entitled to be regardless of what we spent. Some people need to be careful what they wish for . A change of management would guarantee us no promotion ,just as Ranieri guaranteed us relegation , for it would clearly mark a change in direction and we know that rarely works.
We are playing some superb football, and if people cant see that then its pointless having this sort of debate.

Agreed

[Spirit of 2000]

The idea that you throw  a group of players together and they should gel because they are professionals is fundamentally flawed for reasons I dont have time to explain. Add to that the fact fact that we are playing in a possession based style which takes much longer to develop tactically than a defensive counter atttacking style and some of the comments made on here are way off the mark. We havent steamrollered every team with results,but apart from the Barnsley defeat have shown progress in every game. Individual errors have cost us points,but we are creating plenty of chances and even teams like WBA and seasoned trainers like Billic dont have an answer. They got the point but the game did not go how they wanted at any point,as the desperation on this unbeaten teams coach clearly showed.
Its early days and we will start putting results together. We are 3 points off 2nd place !!!!! Some posts on here criticising SP and the team are way over the top . Its frustrating we are not top of the table ,but we are not entitled to be regardless of what we spent. Some people need to be careful what they wish for . A change of management would guarantee us no promotion ,just as Ranieri guaranteed us relegation , for it would clearly mark a change in direction and we know that rarely works.
We are playing some superb football, and if people cant see that then its pointless having this sort of debate.

Wow. Nice to know its pointless having this kind of debate if people dont conform to your view. Weirdly I thought that was exactly the reason for forums like this. Its a game of opinions if you want to be objective and as mine doesn't match yours then that shouldn't make either right or wrong. Respect other people's views, agree to disagree. Personally I still stand by all my own stated views. Also for accuracies sake we're 5 points off 2nd, not 3.

[toshes mate]

The idea that you throw  a group of players together and they should gel because they are professionals is fundamentally flawed [... snipped to keep the thread shorter ... ] 

Absolutely priceless opening comment. 

Take any professional sports person and their performances bounce around in a series of anomalous outcomes some peaking high, some dipping low, and all contributing to a measurable average.  The object and purpose of coaching is to increase the number of highs and decrease the number of lows so that average or median rises to its peak level allowing the sports person to maximise their ability to the full. 

In a team sport that exercise is complicated by the need to get every member of the team to a maximise their ability to the full in team performances.  The coaches job is multiplied by the number of players in the team.  The team will be improved by its highest performers and hindered by its lowest performers.  The object and purpose of coaching is to blend the team in such a way that everyone has the best chance of getting close to their best median level, meaning the team will play together as anticipated in training and tactical regimes.  The coaching team can do this via mental and physical processes designed to prove to each and every player that their maximised median is higher than they may at first believe and that the key to this is the unity inspired within the whole team (of which the coaches are also people trying to attain their best median level of ability to coach) the classic win-win multiplied by number of team members.

It doesn't always work but that isn't the point. 

[The Rational Fan]

The idea that you throw  a group of players together and they should gel because they are professionals is fundamentally flawed for reasons I dont have time to explain.

It maybe worth noting that "professionals" are against "other professionals", so being a professional is not an advantage to gel faster. In fact, most professionals have practiced over 10,000 hours to reduce their individual errors, but most of the new players would have only practiced 150 hours with the team to reduce their teamwork errors.

Given most players would have practiced an extra 450 hours with the team by Christmas, surely a few less goals will be conceded. One goal less conceded at Barnsley or Forest would have us 9th now, one goal less conceded at Cardiff or WBA would have us 5th now, one goal less conceded in our last three games would have us 2nd now (ahead of Leeds).

[WindyCity]

The idea that you throw  a group of players together and they should gel because they are professionals is fundamentally flawed for reasons I dont have time to explain. Add to that the fact fact that we are playing in a possession based style which takes much longer to develop tactically than a defensive counter atttacking style and some of the comments made on here are way off the mark. We havent steamrollered every team with results,but apart from the Barnsley defeat have shown progress in every game. Individual errors have cost us points,but we are creating plenty of chances and even teams like WBA and seasoned trainers like Billic dont have an answer. They got the point but the game did not go how they wanted at any point,as the desperation on this unbeaten teams coach clearly showed.
Its early days and we will start putting results together. We are 3 points off 2nd place !!!!! Some posts on here criticising SP and the team are way over the top . Its frustrating we are not top of the table ,but we are not entitled to be regardless of what we spent. Some people need to be careful what they wish for . A change of management would guarantee us no promotion ,just as Ranieri guaranteed us relegation , for it would clearly mark a change in direction and we know that rarely works.
We are playing some superb football, and if people cant see that then its pointless having this sort of debate.

Wow. Nice to know its pointless having this kind of debate if people dont conform to your view. Weirdly I thought that was exactly the reason for forums like this. Its a game of opinions if you want to be objective and as mine doesn't match yours then that shouldn't make either right or wrong. Respect other people's views, agree to disagree. Personally I still stand by all my own stated views. Also for accuracies sake we're 5 points off 2nd, not 3.

Well put Spirit!

[WindyCity]

Wow, lots of excuses and rocket science flying around!  Haha.....  :)

Pros v pros, hours on pitch, bedding in, mental and physical processes, et al.  I'm learning a lot about this very complicated sport. 

Good fun!

Just wondering....when is bedding in/gelling actually completed?  Or does it never end, as some would have, witness last year FFC in the Prem, maybe they never did get cozy with each other?  Just yanking some chains and having some fun, but really, please, why so much emphasis on gelling?

COYW!

[Sting of the North]

@WindyCity:

There are many posts here that tries to various degrees to explain why they believe that things like gelling is important. I guess people keep trying to emphasize it because they believe it to be true. I strongly share this view.

I take from your posts that you consider such things to be fairly unimportant. This surprises me, because I (maybe foolishly) thought that it was almost seen as a fact that it is indeed important if you want to achieve good results in most (all?) team sports and also to some degree in all other parts of society where interaction between individuals is necessary. You are of course free to not believe it to be important, but I have really not seen any good counterarguments from your end.

FWIIW, I don't think people are trying to say that football as a concept is complicated since you just have to score more goals than the opponent. However, it is likely that all teams share this fundamental goal and understanding, and as such it is all about how you can be better than the other guys. One thing that I think is reasonable to believe makes you better is that your players are more in sync than the opponents players. Another thing is the individual quality of the players (however that is measured in a team sport). That is however where things like pros vs pros becomes a valid argument. All these players have trained all their lives and train every day to become better footballers. Every little thing that sets you apart therefore counts, because there is not that much difference in quality between the players in the end. That is the same reason why it is important to be switched on and have the right mindset every game, because otherwise you may lose to Oldham.   

[WindyCity]

@WindyCity:

There are many posts here that tries to various degrees to explain why they believe that things like gelling is important. I guess people keep trying to emphasize it because they believe it to be true. I strongly share this view.

I take from your posts that you consider such things to be fairly unimportant. This surprises me, because I (maybe foolishly) thought that it was almost seen as a fact that it is indeed important if you want to achieve good results in most (all?) team sports and also to some degree in all other parts of society where interaction between individuals is necessary. You are of course free to not believe it to be important, but I have really not seen any good counterarguments from your end.

FWIIW, I don't think people are trying to say that football as a concept is complicated since you just have to score more goals than the opponent. However, it is likely that all teams share this fundamental goal and understanding, and as such it is all about how you can be better than the other guys. One thing that I think is reasonable to believe makes you better is that your players are more in sync than the opponents players. Another thing is the individual quality of the players (however that is measured in a team sport). That is however where things like pros vs pros becomes a valid argument. All these players have trained all their lives and train every day to become better footballers. Every little thing that sets you apart therefore counts, because there is not that much difference in quality between the players in the end. That is the same reason why it is important to be switched on and have the right mindset every game, because otherwise you may lose to Oldham.

Sting, TY for your kind response.  Of course, everyone has their own opinions and views.  And you might note that in an earlier post, I did say:  "Of course, a certain amount of practice and playing time together is beneficial".  However, I still feel this gelling issue is overblown, again, just my view.  I have given reasons why, such as these guys are all pros.  I played team sports most of my life (including ice hockey) and never really felt that all the practice and playing time together (or lack thereof) could ever be held as a reason given for overall team success or failures.  I think most of these pro footballers know when to make a pass or a run, regardless of what they may or may not know about their teammates.  And I also ask, as above, when is gelling completed?  Or is ever really completed at all?  And also, what of these other competitions that teams/players are engaged with?  Some of the lesser comps, teams oft times play their 2nd tier players.  Have they had chances to "gel" as a unit?  What of international comps and world cups?  Most of those teams are comprised of players (albeit mostly very good) that join in just to play a given game.  Where does gelling fit in there?  I'm sure World Cup squads do not spend the same amount of practice time in preparation (lack of gel) as teams/players do for the regular season league action.

I do ask some of these things in an effort to learn more about football.  I am relatively new to the English football scene, having been following (in particular FFC) for maybe 5-6 years now.  So, I readily admit I'm pretty green.  As I view these games, I'm looking at it more macro than micro.  Still hard for me to see some of the things on the pitch that most of the forum sees, such as various positional play and such.  I am getting better though.  I also try to add some humor and fun in my posts, so I hope some here are not offended and see the spirit intended. 

[Statto]

I also ask, as above, when is gelling completed?  Or is ever really completed at all?  And also, what of these other competitions that teams/players are engaged with?  Some of the lesser comps, teams oft times play their 2nd tier players.  Have they had chances to "gel" as a unit?  What of international comps and world cups?  Most of those teams are comprised of players (albeit mostly very good) that join in just to play a given game.  Where does gelling fit in there?  I'm sure World Cup squads do not spend the same amount of practice time in preparation (lack of gel) as teams/players do for the regular season league action.

I don't wish to re-run this whole debate but regarding the specific points made above, logically, these points don't seem to me to in any way contradict the central argument that teams perform better when their players have had time to 'gel'.

For example, as to the question, "when is gelling completed?", the answer is never. So what? A weightlifter spends hours in the gym and eating high-protein foods to improve his performance, and you could ask the same question - when is all that training and eating completed? Again the answer would be, well, never. But that doesn't in any way mean all that training and eating doesn't improve his performance.

As to the point about international games, it's widely known that the lack of time training together hinders international teams. Duh. So what?

[toshes mate]

Just yanking some chains and having some fun, but really, please, why so much emphasis on gelling?

Yanking chains, having fun, asking why?  You may have all the ingredients to be a coach, at least in the short term!

Firstly I agree football is, at least superficially, a very simple game.  You get a result by beating your opponent and the method used, good, bad, or indifferent, never makes it to the record books.  You can be a gracious winner or a sore loser and nobody else will give a damn. The folks who watched you will only remember what they want to remember, and even that may be manufactured.

To assist in understanding what makes a better player, and by extension a better team, I have always looked at those professionals (Malcolm Macdonald for example) who start in one position, where they may be pretty average, and then move into another position, and become a star.   I always wonder where that switch or swapping of role comes from - is it the player, the coach, a team mate, or some occasional and casual observer, or a combination of any or all of these?  Just how does it work and just how many players have lost out because it didn't happen to them?  I'd like to believe, but I have no way of knowing if it is true or not, that skilled eyes are always looking critically at what they see on the pitch, with a mind open wide to all possibility, and simply make a connection between what players do and how that can be turned into an improvement for all concerned.  That gives rise to the notion that skilled eyes also see how a 'weakness' in one player can be 'strengthened' by another player already having the missing ingredient of the former.   Now if that can happen on or off the competitive pitch it benefits everyone and can be applied to the whole team.  Hence the team gains in strength through reciprocation and that reciprocation allows coaches to do more and more until a peak occurs and then things tend to drop away.   In other words the momentum to improve needs to continue for as long as possible because when it stops it is gone.   

[Spirit of 2000]

Talking about the essence of a lot of this thread & stepping into an objective mode rather than a points scoring "I'm right, your wrong" scenario, I will say this. I hope Parker succeeds, I like passing football and think I've made that evident through my replies, so no I don't want to see us back to the Ranieri style, doing a Warnock or Pulis. In fact I think I see the merits of what he's trying to do. The much renown " press" employed by many teams & setup to stop the likes of Fulham taking the mick and playing round them – and by keeping the ball and inviting the press whilst in control that should & did certainly in the 1st half against WBA open gaps in behind the opposition midfield. At this point – yes the speed of pass & pass selection is down to the players and Parker cannot influence that directly on the pitch – neither can he directly influence our attacking players to make the correct runs into those spaces and for the two – the pass, it's accuracy & speed of execution and the incisive/intelligent run to exploit it. I will concede that this should improve with time – at the same time I'm not trying to take from what I believe is still a valid argument regards tempo. Fingers crossed we will see that this weekend and the beginning of a run that takes us upwards into a position that reflects the ability of our squad. COYW!!

[Twig]

Firstly, while I confess that I thoroughly enjoy our style of football, I do agree we need more frequent spells at a higher tempo.  I put it this way because we do sometimes play quick incisive passes and move the ball quickly but probably not often enough.
Personally I buy into the view that our confidence and ability play our style but at a quicker tempo, will improve as the team gels.  To play our style fast requires an instinctive, almost telepathic understanding of where team mates will make their runs.  Ultimately this comes mainly from competitive match practice. 
I would give it until early December and would have hoped to see significant improvements by then.

[WindyCity]

I also ask, as above, when is gelling completed?  Or is ever really completed at all?  And also, what of these other competitions that teams/players are engaged with?  Some of the lesser comps, teams oft times play their 2nd tier players.  Have they had chances to "gel" as a unit?  What of international comps and world cups?  Most of those teams are comprised of players (albeit mostly very good) that join in just to play a given game.  Where does gelling fit in there?  I'm sure World Cup squads do not spend the same amount of practice time in preparation (lack of gel) as teams/players do for the regular season league action.

I don't wish to re-run this whole debate but regarding the specific points made above, logically, these points don't seem to me to in any way contradict the central argument that teams perform better when their players have had time to 'gel'.

For example, as to the question, "when is gelling completed?", the answer is never. So what? A weightlifter spends hours in the gym and eating high-protein foods to improve his performance, and you could ask the same question - when is all that training and eating completed? Again the answer would be, well, never. But that doesn't in any way mean all that training and eating doesn't improve his performance.

As to the point about international games, it's widely known that the lack of time training together hinders international teams. Duh. So what?

Ok, so....DUH!!  Let's just use lack of gelling as a never ending excuse.  Gotta always have an excuse in ones' back pocket for poor performance. 

[WindyCity]

Firstly, while I confess that I thoroughly enjoy our style of football, I do agree we need more frequent spells at a higher tempo.  I put it this way because we do sometimes play quick incisive passes and move the ball quickly but probably not often enough.
Personally I buy into the view that our confidence and ability play our style but at a quicker tempo, will improve as the team gels.  To play our style fast requires an instinctive, almost telepathic understanding of where team mates will make their runs.  Ultimately this comes mainly from competitive match practice. 
I would give it until early December and would have hoped to see significant improvements by then.

Nothing wrong with the 'possession game' as long as there is a purpose and reason to it.  I think the team needs to have some sort of plays or ideas on which to give themselves real scoring chances from this possession style.  It seems for long periods of time, some opponents just sit back and let FFC accumulate possession time, without really expending much energy, and without FFC really posing credible threat.  Hopefully FFC can produce more chances and goals from all this possession.  So far, save one game, they really haven't.  Additionally, I agree with you about quicker tempo, and certainly in those transition opportunities the players should try to keep moving forward on the attack rather than at some point pass backwards and lose that push and establish once again possession.

[Sting of the North]

I also ask, as above, when is gelling completed?  Or is ever really completed at all?  And also, what of these other competitions that teams/players are engaged with?  Some of the lesser comps, teams oft times play their 2nd tier players.  Have they had chances to "gel" as a unit?  What of international comps and world cups?  Most of those teams are comprised of players (albeit mostly very good) that join in just to play a given game.  Where does gelling fit in there?  I'm sure World Cup squads do not spend the same amount of practice time in preparation (lack of gel) as teams/players do for the regular season league action.

I don't wish to re-run this whole debate but regarding the specific points made above, logically, these points don't seem to me to in any way contradict the central argument that teams perform better when their players have had time to 'gel'.

For example, as to the question, "when is gelling completed?", the answer is never. So what? A weightlifter spends hours in the gym and eating high-protein foods to improve his performance, and you could ask the same question - when is all that training and eating completed? Again the answer would be, well, never. But that doesn't in any way mean all that training and eating doesn't improve his performance.

As to the point about international games, it's widely known that the lack of time training together hinders international teams. Duh. So what?

Ok, so....DUH!!  Let's just use lack of gelling as a never ending excuse.  Gotta always have an excuse in ones' back pocket for poor performance.

Well, you seem to be the only one talking about never ending excuses. We are however 7 games into a 46 games season, with a team with many new faces. Just because someone then is using lack of gelling as an "excuse" (explanation is probably a better word) for performances that doesn't seem to reflect the individual quality of the players doesn't mean that the same excuse is valid for eternity regardless of the consequences. Contexts change with time. Just because it is claimed that gelling never ends (which of course is true), doesn't mean that each passing day is as valuable (think of diminishing returns).

[WindyCity]

I know of course that gelling never ends.  I posed as a question, but also intended as statement too.... "Or is ever really completed at all?"

"doesn't mean that the same excuse is valid for eternity regardless of the consequences. Contexts change with time."

Understood.

"Well, you seem to be the only one talking about never ending excuses."

Ok, I'll be quiet now.  I'll behave.

(I still haven't been convinced that bedding in/gelling isn't overblown.  I am, of course, open to differing views.  Ok, NOW I'll be quiet.)

:)

[RaySmith]

There's no 'I' in  Team.

[Spirit of 2000]

Sorry but today re-enforces my opinion. 71% possession.  1 goal. Less shots than Sheff Wed, sit back last 15 mins, get punished. Has Parker/we learnt nothing.

[WindyCity]

Sorry but today re-enforces my opinion. 71% possession.  1 goal. Less shots than Sheff Wed, sit back last 15 mins, get punished. Has Parker/we learnt nothing.

Yeah, really really disappointing result.  How many more times is this team, and we as followers, gonna continue to get our collective heads bashed in? 

Brutal, just brutal......