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10 games

Started by Andy S, October 02, 2019, 01:35:57 PM

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Tabby

Quote from: Matt10 on October 02, 2019, 04:56:59 PM

He has literally instilled the system that we are seeing. How can you say that he isn't bringing much to the table? Did they all collectively just decide that they're going to play like that?

I don't think that the team is performing above what you could expect with the quality of the players in the team. Bringing something to the table would mean to enhance their performance.

Quote from: Jim© on October 02, 2019, 04:56:00 PM

Think people are being overly harsh on a novice manager who is doing what many experienced managers utterly fail at, and return at first time of asking.

I won't give Parker any breaks on account of being a novice. And Fulham are currently in 4th place and may fall out of playoff places tonight.

Matt10

Quote from: Tabby on October 02, 2019, 06:05:20 PM
Quote from: Matt10 on October 02, 2019, 04:56:59 PM

He has literally instilled the system that we are seeing. How can you say that he isn't bringing much to the table? Did they all collectively just decide that they're going to play like that?

I don't think that the team is performing above what you could expect with the quality of the players in the team. Bringing something to the table would mean to enhance their performance.

Quote from: Jim© on October 02, 2019, 04:56:00 PM

Think people are being overly harsh on a novice manager who is doing what many experienced managers utterly fail at, and return at first time of asking.

I won't give Parker any breaks on account of being a novice. And Fulham are currently in 4th place and may fall out of playoff places tonight.

They need a system first, that's what he has brought to the table. A 4-3-3 that pressures high when possession is lost. He emphasizes us to pass to feet and where we are facing, versus sending many passes into space. The team still need a metric to perform against, and usually that is determined by their adherence to the manager's system. I'd say so far, so good, but not without the typical growing pains.

Is there a specific criteria you are looking for that indicates how a manger has brought much to the table? A team for example? Just so I understand the argument here?

MJG

Quote from: Tabby on October 02, 2019, 06:05:20 PM
Quote from: Matt10 on October 02, 2019, 04:56:59 PM

He has literally instilled the system that we are seeing. How can you say that he isn't bringing much to the table? Did they all collectively just decide that they're going to play like that?

I don't think that the team is performing above what you could expect with the quality of the players in the team. Bringing something to the table would mean to enhance their performance.

Quote from: Jim© on October 02, 2019, 04:56:00 PM

Think people are being overly harsh on a novice manager who is doing what many experienced managers utterly fail at, and return at first time of asking.

I won't give Parker any breaks on account of being a novice. And Fulham are currently in 4th place and may fall out of playoff places tonight.
you can't just name an XI and say go out and play.... Well Maybe Jol did.... But anyway they are playing to a system and like it not that's coming from Parker.
Just the views of a long term fan


bill taylors apprentice

Results have not matched what we could of / should of achieved but thats sport.

Taking everything into account I'm happy ish but if it was a 10 game season it would be a failure so consistency is required with the minimum of setbacks.

Tabby

Playing to a system doesn't mean that the system is good. Results and performances are what matter. Moyes set up Man Utd to cross the ball against us the game they broke the record for most crosses, does that mean he did a brilliant job?

Being in 4th (will be lower after today's games) is not overachieving with the squad he has, I think I've made that point pretty clearly.

General

Think this a distinctly divisive  (albeit not on purpose necessarily), poll.

Had you asked us two games ago you'd have been met with resoundingly worse marks.. two games later against teams at the lowest rungs of the league is good, but I did post about the risks of us getting overexcited about wins we should be expecting to get against those teams as against better opposition we've struggled to break them down.

Yes we've dominated teams almost unanimously by 60-70% possession and it does seem like we're passing the ball with more speed and aggression but that needs to last longer than two games to be given a resounding thumbs up. Next game against Charlton could be a better gauge but even then if we're aiming for top 2 then we can only really realistically be judging ourselves against our performances against teams either in forms or in the top 6 when we play them in my opinion whilst expecting better results against lower teams. Those are the standards that are needed to be maintained.

I'm happy we have started the season in forms and picking up points from the start, I can't remember when that last happened, but our tactics and game play has seen us lose points we really shouldn't have. So there's legitimate reasons to be disappointed and optimistic.

That all being said, and we have the highest goals scored and goals difference in the league - when you look at the stats, the credit other teams managers give us as suggesting already that we should be in the premier league and are a premier league team,  and with the squad we have - we really should be expecting more.

Cavaleiro, Knockaert, Mawson, Mitro, Cairney and Arter are all players who should arguably be in or around premiership teams. That's half our starting lineup and doesn't consider Bobby Reid.

If we were to look back you could argue either through overconfidence or complacency with a team that capable and experienced we should be 1st now.

Obviously were realists and at this stage so close to the top and with clear room for improvement most should be satisfied but why not expect a bit more and have standards of ourselves with the premiership in mind. Let's not forget how bad last season was and how easily we got walked over.

I wouldn't expect this squad to be out of the bottom half of the premier league as is.


Sting of the North

Seeing many comments in this thread it seems like people expected us to walk the league from start to finish just because we have good players. If so, then I understand why those posters may be underwhelmed. To me, many posts here seem completely unreal. The more I think of it, the more I am starting to wonder whether I am not watching the same games as many on here. Or maybe I just don't understand football at all.

Anyhow, opinions and all that of course, and to each their own and yada, yada. Can't muster the strength to try to argue against some of the points on here, but to answer the op I'd probably rate us a solid B or maybe even B+. We have definitely performed better than I would have expected so early in the season given the circumstances. 

ScalleysDad

Quote from: Tabby on October 02, 2019, 04:29:37 PM
The team is solid, the only question is tactics and motivation. I'd rate the season so far as a B but management as a C. At most 3 points off the top with a good goal difference is ok, but the game management has been poor with several lost leads.

Don't think Parker is bringing much to the table so far and is being carried by individual performances. The players seem to have a good camaraderie though, so he has that going for him.


Do you not think SP is actually the catalyst for the good vibes now running through the squad which is more than enough to bring to the table this early in the story. Considering where we were this time last year it's a major contribution.

Tabby

#28
Quote from: ScalleysDad on October 02, 2019, 07:52:22 PM
Quote from: Tabby on October 02, 2019, 04:29:37 PM
The team is solid, the only question is tactics and motivation. I'd rate the season so far as a B but management as a C. At most 3 points off the top with a good goal difference is ok, but the game management has been poor with several lost leads.

Don't think Parker is bringing much to the table so far and is being carried by individual performances. The players seem to have a good camaraderie though, so he has that going for him.


Do you not think SP is actually the catalyst for the good vibes now running through the squad which is more than enough to bring to the table this early in the story. Considering where we were this time last year it's a major contribution.

I did give him credit for the mood at the camp, I think that is his best attribute. And I did give him a C, which is a passing grade.

I've been thoroughly whelmed so far.


ScalleysDad

Quote from: Tabby on October 02, 2019, 07:57:15 PM
Quote from: ScalleysDad on October 02, 2019, 07:52:22 PM
Quote from: Tabby on October 02, 2019, 04:29:37 PM
The team is solid, the only question is tactics and motivation. I'd rate the season so far as a B but management as a C. At most 3 points off the top with a good goal difference is ok, but the game management has been poor with several lost leads.

Don't think Parker is bringing much to the table so far and is being carried by individual performances. The players seem to have a good camaraderie though, so he has that going for him.


Do you not think SP is actually the catalyst for the good vibes now running through the squad which is more than enough to bring to the table this early in the story. Considering where we were this time last year it's a major contribution.

I did give him credit for the mood at the camp, I think that is his best attribute. And I did give him a C, which is a passing grade.

I've been thoroughly whelmed so far.


Fair enough. I would give Parker an A myself as he was the one constant last season which must have been a tough ask as he was expected to be the buffer, the whipping boy and peacemaker. He seems to have carried those elements along with a half decent relationship with TK through the post season and into the first ten games. From where we were to where we are now, this very day, not a bad job at all.

Steeeeeeeeeed

B-

The seeds are there for a push to an A

Highlight for me has been Cairney's goals, when last year he could have sulked and deteriorated, he has come back very strongly and is looking like the happy chappy from two years ago.


AnOldBrownie

#31
Not worried.  In the playoffs like I expect us to be at seasons end (at worst).  Like I was expecting before our last two wins.

1st year coach with players who are still learning to play together.   Not sure why everyone thought, in a fluid game like football, it should be expected that players that hadn't played much football together should be consistently killing even mid table championship squads.    Hell, even the Manchester Uniteds of the world have hard times breaking down some "poorer" sides, and they've had this problem over the last 4 years I've watched them.    Cohesion takes time.    Klopp will tell you this.  Poch will tell you this and Guardiola will tell you this.

imo Parker and crew have passed the first test

If we're grading....solid B, but not a B+.

The real test will be when we

1.  Play the better teams in the league after we've "gelled"
2. We get our first sustained injury to a first team player.



Statto

Quote from: ScalleysDad on October 02, 2019, 07:52:22 PM
Quote from: Tabby on October 02, 2019, 04:29:37 PM
The team is solid, the only question is tactics and motivation. I'd rate the season so far as a B but management as a C. At most 3 points off the top with a good goal difference is ok, but the game management has been poor with several lost leads.

Don't think Parker is bringing much to the table so far and is being carried by individual performances. The players seem to have a good camaraderie though, so he has that going for him.


Do you not think SP is actually the catalyst for the good vibes now running through the squad which is more than enough to bring to the table this early in the story. Considering where we were this time last year it's a major contribution.

Agree, and IMO being a great motivator is nothing to be sniffed at. Keegan for example, built his whole managerial career on that. Lots of great managers have been unable to get good players playing well, because they can't motivate or control them - Mitrovic under Benitez for example.

It's even more important in the current environment where clubs like us are often putting transfers in the hands of a DoF and buying players to suit particular "house style" tactics that transcend the coach.

I said going into this season, I had my doubts about Parker but his strength, his man management skill-set, was exactly what we needed IMO.

Nonetheless I do also agree with those saying you have to acknowledge the more technical stuff Parker and the coaching team have done to get the team defensively organised, passing it around like this etc.   

SuffolkWhite

Ten games and in the top six, two points from automatic and team begining to click and play with better tempo. So ok to good so far.
Guy goes into the doctor's.
"Doc, I've got a cricket ball stuck up my backside
"How's that?"
"Don't you start"