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Bettinelli

Started by Denver Fulham, October 05, 2019, 03:48:33 PM

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Facts Not Fiction

Quote from: Chutney on October 15, 2019, 12:43:28 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 15, 2019, 10:26:51 AM
Quote from: Twig on October 15, 2019, 06:31:27 AM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 12, 2019, 03:45:46 PM
Quote from: Forever Fulham on October 12, 2019, 01:59:01 PM
More cohesion needed in the back line.  With proper support, he can do the job alright.

You won't get much better at this level than Odoi, Mawson, Ream and Bryan.

I don't think we have a poor back four but they have been roundly criticised on here several times this season so how do you now arrive at the conclusion that, you won't get much better? Just wondering.

This season, it hasn't been the back 4 letting us down. Its been the attack (bar last few games).

Mawson is easily one of the best CBs in the league. Bryan is the best full back. Ream has discovered his form again, and Odoi is a solid player. Without spending huge, there aren't many defences better at this level.

Bryan is far from the best full back in this division. He's not even the best left back.

Furthermore, If any of the players you've listed get injured we go from a top 6 defence to a bottom 6 defence, not that we can do anything about that until Jan. I think Ream and Hector could be a dream CB combo.

I agree that the forwards have let us down, we need to be more clinical, but our defenders have also cost us points, the full backs especially.

Who is the best full back in your opinion?

Statto

Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 15, 2019, 10:26:51 AM
Mawson is easily one of the best CBs in the league. Bryan is the best full back. Ream has discovered his form again, and Odoi is a solid player. Without spending huge, there aren't many defences better at this level.

Largely agree.

Mawson - walks into any Championship team
Hector - walks into any Championship team
Bryan - walks into any Championship team
Ream - on current form walks into almost any Championship team
Odoi -  top 6 Championship full back / average Championship CB
Sessegnon - average Championship full back

Overall, IMO the best defence in the division, albeit not the best depth of cover

Bettinelli - average or bottom half Championship GK 

Statto



MJG

Quote from: Statto on October 15, 2019, 01:31:00 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 15, 2019, 10:24:42 AM
Quote from: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 07:12:00 AM
Betts is certainly much better than Rico

I nearly fell of my chair reading this.

Me too
And not a Goalkeeper anywhere to catch you... Typical
Just the views of a long term fan

Chutney

Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 15, 2019, 01:15:49 PM
Quote from: Chutney on October 15, 2019, 12:43:28 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 15, 2019, 10:26:51 AM
Quote from: Twig on October 15, 2019, 06:31:27 AM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 12, 2019, 03:45:46 PM
Quote from: Forever Fulham on October 12, 2019, 01:59:01 PM
More cohesion needed in the back line.  With proper support, he can do the job alright.

You won't get much better at this level than Odoi, Mawson, Ream and Bryan.

I don't think we have a poor back four but they have been roundly criticised on here several times this season so how do you now arrive at the conclusion that, you won't get much better? Just wondering.

This season, it hasn't been the back 4 letting us down. Its been the attack (bar last few games).

Mawson is easily one of the best CBs in the league. Bryan is the best full back. Ream has discovered his form again, and Odoi is a solid player. Without spending huge, there aren't many defences better at this level.

Bryan is far from the best full back in this division. He's not even the best left back.

Furthermore, If any of the players you've listed get injured we go from a top 6 defence to a bottom 6 defence, not that we can do anything about that until Jan. I think Ream and Hector could be a dream CB combo.

I agree that the forwards have let us down, we need to be more clinical, but our defenders have also cost us points, the full backs especially.

Who is the best full back in your opinion?

Any one of Gibbs, Ribiero, Douglas or Bennett on their day, based purely on ability. Bryan inst currently better at attacking or defending than any of those 4.

You could also add Furlong and Cash on current form, although Bryan is probably an overall better player.
C O Y W

snarks

Quote from: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 10:57:47 AM
Didn't ball hit a bobble and go over his outstretched hand v Cardiff? - not much he could do about it.

The goal was caused by losing possession  further up the field, and a   defence splitting pass, with Ream out of position after   going forward with the ball, and an attacker running through to shoot unimpeded, but Betts would have saved the shot if  the ball hadn't hit a bump and  bounced over his outstretched   hand.
Later in the game  he made a crucial save from a point blank shot.

Generally,  he seems a  safe pair of hands, especially compared to Rico, and   is building a rapport with  the defenders in front of him.

I just think at the Cardiff goal he should have done better, yes it takes a bobble but I think he should have saved it, some of the others he's been blamed for aren't his fault (actually I forgot West Brom at home, definitely down to him) like Charlton's goals.

As I've said on other threads, I think he's getting unnecessary flack.


Statto

Quote from: Chutney on October 15, 2019, 04:03:20 PM
Any one of Gibbs, Ribiero, Douglas or Bennett on their day, based purely on ability. Bryan inst currently better at attacking or defending than any of those 4.

Is Ribeiro even first choice for Forest? The other three are all 29/30. Not a single goal or assist between the four of them. Compared to Bryan who has two assists and a goal. I'd love to pull up some more detailed stats - pretty sure Bryan will take all of them to the cleaners when it comes to pass accuracy etc.


RaySmith

#87
Quote from: snarks on October 15, 2019, 04:24:43 PM
Quote from: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 10:57:47 AM
Didn't ball hit a bobble and go over his outstretched hand v Cardiff? - not much he could do about it.

The goal was caused by losing possession  further up the field, and a   defence splitting pass, with Ream out of position after   going forward with the ball, and an attacker running through to shoot unimpeded, but Betts would have saved the shot if  the ball hadn't hit a bump and  bounced over his outstretched   hand.
Later in the game  he made a crucial save from a point blank shot.

Generally,  he seems a  safe pair of hands, especially compared to Rico, and   is building a rapport with  the defenders in front of him.

I just think at the Cardiff goal he should have done better, yes it takes a bobble but I think he should have saved it, some of the others he's been blamed for aren't his fault (actually I forgot West Brom at home, definitely down to him) like Charlton's goals.

As I've said on other threads, I think he's getting unnecessary flack.

I don't see how  he could have saved the Cardiff goal - he would have had to have moved his hand in mid -air in a spit second reaction. Weren't the outfield players  at fault for the   goal, if blame is ascribed?

I don't think any of the goals conceded this season were definitely down to him.

I stand  by my claim that Betts is a lot better than Rico became,  with his seeming loss of confidence, and completely hopeless with high balls.

I remember his performance at  West Ham  and Burnley, games I attended, and which were crucial for us to get something from, and which we scored first in both, and went on to lose with  stupidly conceded goals, unable to deal with high balls into the box, which wasn't just the fault of Rico, obviously.

The Rational Fan

#88
Quote from: Statto on October 15, 2019, 01:31:00 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 15, 2019, 10:24:42 AM
Quote from: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 07:12:00 AM
Betts is certainly much better than Rico

I nearly fell of my chair reading this.

Me too

Betts may have been a great goalkeeper second half of 17/18, but his movement to cover his left post seems not as good as before.


love4ffc

Betts is more then good enough for this league.  At some point I would hope that people on here would except that he is our number one and get off his back and start supporting the lad. 
Anyone can blend into the crowd.  How will you standout when it counts?

Woolly Mammoth

Quote from: love4ffc on October 16, 2019, 01:20:05 AM
Betts is more then good enough for this league.  At some point I would hope that people on here would except that he is our number one and get off his back and start supporting the lad. 

Agreed
Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.

Denver Fulham

Quote from: love4ffc on October 16, 2019, 01:20:05 AM
Betts is more then good enough for this league.  At some point I would hope that people on here would except that he is our number one and get off his back and start supporting the lad. 

How many times this season have you thought we had the better goalkeeper in the match?


colinwhite

#92
Bettineli has made mistakes which have cost us points,but he is  still good enough and now has the experience of knowing what it takes to get up to the PL.
One of my problems is that I keep comparing current GKs to Van de sar and Scwarzer!

Statto

#93
Quote from: love4ffc on October 16, 2019, 01:20:05 AM
At some point I would hope that people on here would except that he is our number one and get off his back and start supporting the lad. 

I sympathise with this comment a little. I'm actually a big fan of Bettinelli on a personal/character level. On another thread previously i said he was a "legend", and got some stick but stand by that comment. I certainly get behind him at matches. But it shouldn't mean I can't observe, in an objective discussion on the forum, that he's technically the weakest player in our starting XI. Well, it's between him and Sessegnon, who's actually another player I really like on a personal/character level.

Bassey the warrior

Quote from: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 08:40:04 PM
Quote from: snarks on October 15, 2019, 04:24:43 PM
Quote from: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 10:57:47 AM
Didn't ball hit a bobble and go over his outstretched hand v Cardiff? - not much he could do about it.

The goal was caused by losing possession  further up the field, and a   defence splitting pass, with Ream out of position after   going forward with the ball, and an attacker running through to shoot unimpeded, but Betts would have saved the shot if  the ball hadn't hit a bump and  bounced over his outstretched   hand.
Later in the game  he made a crucial save from a point blank shot.

Generally,  he seems a  safe pair of hands, especially compared to Rico, and   is building a rapport with  the defenders in front of him.

I just think at the Cardiff goal he should have done better, yes it takes a bobble but I think he should have saved it, some of the others he's been blamed for aren't his fault (actually I forgot West Brom at home, definitely down to him) like Charlton's goals.

As I've said on other threads, I think he's getting unnecessary flack.

I don't see how  he could have saved the Cardiff goal - he would have had to have moved his hand in mid -air in a spit second reaction. Weren't the outfield players  at fault for the   goal, if blame is ascribed?

I don't think any of the goals conceded this season were definitely down to him.

I stand  by my claim that Betts is a lot better than Rico became,  with his seeming loss of confidence, and completely hopeless with high balls.

I remember his performance at  West Ham  and Burnley, games I attended, and which were crucial for us to get something from, and which we scored first in both, and went on to lose with  stupidly conceded goals, unable to deal with high balls into the box, which wasn't just the fault of Rico, obviously.

This is laughable. Rico isn't great in the air but Betts is the same. Rico is much better as a shot stopper. Would Betts have been signed by PSG? I suggest you take off the rose tinted glasses.


Bassey the warrior

For what's it worth I don't advocate dropping Betts at the moment as we're on an upward curve. I did before but there's no point rocking the boat. Obviously if he keeps making catastrophic errors he will need to be dropped.

simplyfulham

Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on October 17, 2019, 12:59:29 PM
Quote from: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 08:40:04 PM
Quote from: snarks on October 15, 2019, 04:24:43 PM
Quote from: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 10:57:47 AM
Didn't ball hit a bobble and go over his outstretched hand v Cardiff? - not much he could do about it.

The goal was caused by losing possession  further up the field, and a   defence splitting pass, with Ream out of position after   going forward with the ball, and an attacker running through to shoot unimpeded, but Betts would have saved the shot if  the ball hadn't hit a bump and  bounced over his outstretched   hand.
Later in the game  he made a crucial save from a point blank shot.

Generally,  he seems a  safe pair of hands, especially compared to Rico, and   is building a rapport with  the defenders in front of him.

I just think at the Cardiff goal he should have done better, yes it takes a bobble but I think he should have saved it, some of the others he's been blamed for aren't his fault (actually I forgot West Brom at home, definitely down to him) like Charlton's goals.

As I've said on other threads, I think he's getting unnecessary flack.

I don't see how  he could have saved the Cardiff goal - he would have had to have moved his hand in mid -air in a spit second reaction. Weren't the outfield players  at fault for the   goal, if blame is ascribed?

I don't think any of the goals conceded this season were definitely down to him.

I stand  by my claim that Betts is a lot better than Rico became,  with his seeming loss of confidence, and completely hopeless with high balls.

I remember his performance at  West Ham  and Burnley, games I attended, and which were crucial for us to get something from, and which we scored first in both, and went on to lose with  stupidly conceded goals, unable to deal with high balls into the box, which wasn't just the fault of Rico, obviously.

This is laughable. Rico isn't great in the air but Betts is the same. Rico is much better as a shot stopper. Would Betts have been signed by PSG? I suggest you take off the rose tinted glasses.

Sorry is that third choice hasn't made an appearance yet Sergio Rico?

Bassey the warrior

Quote from: simplyfulham on October 17, 2019, 01:45:22 PM
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on October 17, 2019, 12:59:29 PM
Quote from: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 08:40:04 PM
Quote from: snarks on October 15, 2019, 04:24:43 PM
Quote from: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 10:57:47 AM
Didn't ball hit a bobble and go over his outstretched hand v Cardiff? - not much he could do about it.

The goal was caused by losing possession  further up the field, and a   defence splitting pass, with Ream out of position after   going forward with the ball, and an attacker running through to shoot unimpeded, but Betts would have saved the shot if  the ball hadn't hit a bump and  bounced over his outstretched   hand.
Later in the game  he made a crucial save from a point blank shot.

Generally,  he seems a  safe pair of hands, especially compared to Rico, and   is building a rapport with  the defenders in front of him.

I just think at the Cardiff goal he should have done better, yes it takes a bobble but I think he should have saved it, some of the others he's been blamed for aren't his fault (actually I forgot West Brom at home, definitely down to him) like Charlton's goals.

As I've said on other threads, I think he's getting unnecessary flack.

I don't see how  he could have saved the Cardiff goal - he would have had to have moved his hand in mid -air in a spit second reaction. Weren't the outfield players  at fault for the   goal, if blame is ascribed?

I don't think any of the goals conceded this season were definitely down to him.

I stand  by my claim that Betts is a lot better than Rico became,  with his seeming loss of confidence, and completely hopeless with high balls.

I remember his performance at  West Ham  and Burnley, games I attended, and which were crucial for us to get something from, and which we scored first in both, and went on to lose with  stupidly conceded goals, unable to deal with high balls into the box, which wasn't just the fault of Rico, obviously.

This is laughable. Rico isn't great in the air but Betts is the same. Rico is much better as a shot stopper. Would Betts have been signed by PSG? I suggest you take off the rose tinted glasses.

Sorry is that third choice hasn't made an appearance yet Sergio Rico?

2nd choice, only behind former Real Madrid number one and excellent keeper, Navas.


Dodgin

Good interview on the Fulham website, admitting he has not been at his best, should feel better after today

Denver Fulham

Quote from: Dodgin on October 26, 2019, 07:41:54 PM
Good interview on the Fulham website, admitting he has not been at his best, should feel better after today

Betts was solid today in a tough spot cold off the bench, but his general weaknesses were still on display. He did come for a couple free kicks near the edge of his area, but a couple others from the run of play he seemed rooted and we were fortunate Boro wasted the chances. He also got caught guessing on their free kick and wasn't agile enough to recover, with the post saving him. No one is saying Betts is incompetent. He's just not at the level we should have in goal with this roster. They've given Rodak a look and hard to say he's done better, so it remains an issue.