Cyrus Christie - The Times

[Statto]

Well it took 2 days but at least the thread has finally returned to relevance.

For the record, I absolutely stand my comment. If we're going to define mental health problems in any meaningful way (ie not just everyday mood swings, fears etc) then "most" (ie not all, but more than half of) players won't suffer those problems, and as I said, ought to be able to handle a bit of abuse. That's not to say they'll enjoy it - I don't enjoy getting out of bed at 7am every morning but my 5-figure salary just about justifies it. For 7 figures "most" people could (and most players do) handle booing.

Also for clarity, I stand by my comment that if they really don't like it, they can quit. Even if that's due to a mental health problem. Yes that's a bit tragic but physical and mental disabilities have some adverse implications - there's no getting away from that. If you're 5'6", well that's not a disability but you're probably not going to have a career in basketball. If you've vertigo, you should probably steer clear of window-cleaning. If you're sensitive to adverse feedback from crowds, you'd be well advised to avoid a career in popular spectator sports.

My only caveat is that we must continue to work harder to see that players' advisers recognise and diagnose these sorts of problems and advise, and make it viable for, players to change their careers and/or lifestyles before they end up in a bad place not knowing what's wrong with them or what to do about it.

[jayffc]

I agree wit half of this... but I think my caveat is to push, very much for both... For a world where people understand and discuss that it helps other peoples mental health (and indeed their own) if they don't single out individuals they don't know personally , and direct all of their own anger at someone for kicking a ball about ...on the premise that' if they dont like it they should stop doing the thing they're good at , because, well, tough'. I think humanising celebrities and people in the limelight is useful as there's still some pre conceved notion that they should just accept and expect abuse...that they're people who should just lump it or stiff upper lip it, cos they chose to do something they've always loved doing, and are good at something, that happens to be deemed a desirable job by society ....and therefore for some reason they're deemed fair game for tearing down with full fury when it's not going as well. Same with the music, film and politics worlds.

I guess if I hadnt been in and been surrounded by people in that position seeing what they go through day to day. Maybe I wouldn't be able to empathise in the same way. I see those people and converse with them as normal people, called by their first names and know the human side of them. So I don't, and they don't, see themselves as a 7 figure human, they see themselves as just normal people who happened to have a talent and passion for something. 

ah well. funny old world, opinions ay.


And also it's one thing doing it at a football match with tensions running high (bad enough though) but to then go home and continue to abuse people online is just outrageous. That's where my focus is, ASWELL AS vouching for support for those who have to deal with sort of childish nonsense. I don't know if Internet anonymity has added to peoples sense of entitlement to this sort of behaviour but , while we're at it, I would suggest there should probably be some support given to people who think it socially acceptable to do this sort of thing to find out what they're actually so deeply angry about.

I don't think anyone should have to give up their chosen career path because some t***s think it's ok to abuse them at the very sight of them. Yes, most footballers get some level of Micky taking, and that's one thing ..."banter".... but not all get the vitriol and ugliness that some have put up with. Point is it's not "just a bit of booing" we're talking about, it's relentless negativity everytime he does the most minor thing wrong now, ranging from booing to outright abuse, last match he played a guy next to me shouted out "why don't you and your family f*** off" or words to that effect (I posted the more accurate quote at the time) ....again im not fan of him as a footballer for us by the way, but this isn't just a bit of booing. Especially IF the alleged attack is what he believes happened. we're now talking about a guy who believes his sister was hit because one fan was so vocal in his disgust of Christie it cause a physical altercation involving his family.

Now I know you've alluded that you're not convinced by the incident....but IF that's what his own sister told him what happened, and he believes thats the case. That's not just a bit of booing to him , he's dealing with some whole extra s*** that no one should have to just put up with because they earn more money. I repeat, it doesnt work like that. Money is money, these guys are just human.


anyway, again, I see your arguments, I understand your point of view, I don't disagree with large chunks of it but I see real importance in addressing both sides of the problem personally.

Enough from me, night

[Statto]

@jayffc, again, where has anyone said online abuse, attacking someone's sister, or the general "tearing down" of public figures is OK? If you want to make a separate point about those things, fine, but please don't do it in reply to my posts in a manner that suggests I've condoned those things. With all due respect, you've written three essays on this thread and I agree with 98% of it, but that 98% isn't contradicting anything I have (or that anyone has, as far as I can tell) said.

[Woolly Mammoth]

My wife, my mistress, her sister, the lady next door and my girlfriend all boo me when I wake up, do you feel that is fair ?

[toshes mate]

@jayffc
Thank you for some very thoughtful recent responses, much of which I consider very relevant to perceived differences between past and present.  I use the word perceived because all of us have to live in the here and now or we are already lost to sanity.     

On the internet it was originally conceived as a pure information, learning and communication device with particular use to anyone researching for their own project or wishing to identify people with similar interest.  Even Microsoft's Bill Gates failed to see how it could ever be turned into what he wanted - a locked in product that would both stretch and limit your progress, entertainment, intelligence, interests, et cetara, et cetera - which would make money for his personal enterprise.  That, believe it or not, protected the internet as it was from what it would become the moment someone saw pounds or dollar signs looming large in their eyes.  For a long time the internet survived because it inconveniently took over your landline telephone unless you could afford a second line.  Two things conspired to change all that, the mobile phone, and the realisation that our progression to ever faster and more powerful chips would hit the buffers of the wavelength of light which dictated the process of making chips powerful and small enough without catching fire and exploding.  We hit the boundary of etching things smaller a long time ago, but there was always a time lag before the next generation power chips emerged.  The mobile phone would keep the silicon industry going for at least several decades since it was the process of using existing technology to make everything small enough to fit into a handheld device.  Hence the industry had to turn us away from large PC's to smaller PC's, and what better way to do it than smaller but powerful laptops and smaller but powerful phones?  The need to make money drove the change and we, gullible, human being sucked it up because we don't like to be cut off from our peers. 

It is not being isolated that drives all our fears and our fears drive our phobias be they based on religion, culture, ethnic derivation, creed, social identity, self esteem, and so on.  Integration improves the chances of you being happier or at least less inclined to be very unhappy.  But the mobile phone detaches us through the falsehood that you are in real contact when every bone in our body is saying you need physical contact not superficial contact and hearing a voice and seeing a face on a screen is not physical at all - it is illusion that the brain has to make sense of, and that requires a lot of mental energy we do not really have any understanding of.   We know a fag paper width about our brains and we haven't really made serious progress on how our brains work in a long time.  There are some ethnics, minorities or not, who manage their live perfectly normally because they refuse to live in fear and instead strive to remain free to be whoever they are, and if others choose another path then more fools them.  And that is the key as Eric Berne suggests - play games by all means but understand and be careful that when you play a negative game there is likely to be a rule you will encounter that does not lead you to a relatively happy outcome, and it may, in fact, effectively end your life as you know it if you are not very careful.   The people to be with are those who play a truly positive game each and every time even when faced with negativity.

   

[Southcoastffc]

Getting back to the OP, this is an extract from a Bristol Press item about Joe Bryan which again illustrates that being a well-paid professional footballer does not mean that life is a bowl of cherries.

"There's a lot of people out there who are suffering and the more we come out and speak about it the less alone they'll feel, and from personal experience it helps," said Bryan, who made 230 appearances [for Bristol City] after making his debut in 2012.

Bryan left his hometown club in the summer of 2018, where he had been since he was a schoolboy, to move to west London and try his luck in the Premier League with Fulham.

The 26-year-old admits that being away from the familiarity of Bristol and his close-knit unit of family and friends left him feeling isolated, affecting his overall health and performances on the field.

"I just felt alone. I'd moved away from my family and my partner at the time," said Bryan in a Fulham promotional video.

"It was a massive change in my personal life and everything went downhill and I got injured. I wasn't playing very well and we were bottom of the league.

"I then split up with my now ex-girlfriend and I just felt alone and didn't really know what to do."

That was then his new club got involved and helped encourage him to talk about his problems.

"Luckily one of the physios pulled me and said 'you're not the same. We feel that there's something wrong in your life. Do you want to talk to the doctor?', he added.

"They put me in touch with the counsellor. I saw him a few times and that sorted me out."

Bryan had posted on Instagram in August regarding his battle, stating then: "If you're struggling, there's no weakness in speaking to a professional and finding help."

The message is that anyone can be suffering and help is out there for everyone, no matter who you are.

[toshes mate]

With respect I am not sure the last line of the Joe Bryan story (and the comment made by the poster) is borne out by the what precedes it.  Help found him by virtue of concerns with his employee status - '[JB] have changed; you are not the same' - which is not going to be true of many a struggling person without anyone around them who is the least bit concerned.  I think this is the danger of simplistic cherry picking.

[toshes mate]

This https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50039787 gives you an idea of Gareth Southgate's view of due diligence and the vague proposition that it may be enough to know everything you should know about an asset of yours.  We are so well covered by the concern of others, aren't we just!