Author Topic: Ream  (Read 2403 times)

Offline Statto

  • Gentleman Jim
  • ***
  • Posts: 8051
Ream
« on: October 19, 2019, 11:12:03 PM »
Going into this season I said, like most on here, we needed to sign defenders because (inter alia) Ream isn't good enough to start for a top 2 side

Subsequently when the season started, graciously I admitted Ream was playing more like 17/18 Ream than 18/19 Ream and we appeared to have got away with not upgrading him

Well today he was woeful for both goals, and with Hector and Mawson, rather than Mawson and Ream, we'd have kept a clean sheet today IMO

TK out!  086.gif

Online The Rational Fan

  • Jimmy Hill
  • *
  • Posts: 2242
Re: Ream
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2019, 11:48:33 PM »
This is Parker’s fault, Tim Ream spent most of his career as a left-back and now he is better as a left centre back, but he is not a central centre back. Making matters worse as he was away the last two weeks, Ream had no time to learn playing in the back three. Even worse Bryan is not a left centre back and Mawson is not a right centre back in a back three.

If Parker wanted a back three, MLM, Mawson and Odoi could have learnt to play together. Frankly, it was crazy to play this formation with the players he did, especially with Ream away. If you have a back three, all of them need to be both quick and good in the air (Ream and Mawson are slow, Ream and Bryan aren’t great in the air).
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 11:56:05 PM by The Rational Fan »

Offline YankeeJim

  • cebu
  • *
  • Posts: 4876
  • Bring on the Championship!
Re: Ream
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2019, 12:03:08 AM »
Ream was badly exposed. On the goal, he was well beaten but there wasn't another defender any where near. Other than Bryan, we do not have a defender with either the skill or pace to be a Prem defender. Ream reads the game well and is good on the ball but isn't much in the air and has no quickness or pace. He needs a tall and strong center half like a Brede to control the area and let him clean up the strays aka Aaron.
I assume you are blaming him for the penalty when the entire back five was out to lunch. That, IMO, is to be blamed on Parker for setting up the back line as he did.


Offline colinwhite

  • Jimmy Hill
  • *
  • Posts: 2130
Re: Ream
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2019, 12:11:01 AM »
Thought he looked tired after the international week . Not good enough today.

Online The Rational Fan

  • Jimmy Hill
  • *
  • Posts: 2242
Re: Ream
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2019, 12:20:59 AM »
Ream was badly exposed. That, IMO, is to be blamed on Parker for setting up the back line as he did.

TK has given Parker good enough defenders to keep a clean sheet against Stoke and we should be able to score against the team that conceeded the most goals in the Championship. Any Formation can work provided you play players in their best positions.

Bryan’s best position is LWB or LB.
Reams and MLM’s best position are LCB.
Manson’s best position is CCB in a back three, but can play LCB or RCB in a four.
Odoi’s best position in RCB in a back three or RB in a back four.
Christie’s best position is RWB or RB.
S.Sess best position is evolving over time, currently RB is his best spot.

Offline YankeeJim

  • cebu
  • *
  • Posts: 4876
  • Bring on the Championship!
Re: Ream
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2019, 12:21:10 AM »
Thought he looked tired after the international week . Not good enough today.


None of the lads really seemed up to it.


Online The Rational Fan

  • Jimmy Hill
  • *
  • Posts: 2242
Re: Ream
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2019, 12:23:32 AM »
Thought he looked tired after the international week . Not good enough today.


None of the lads really seemed up to it.

Stupid Parker, we should have rested Ream (for MLM) as i suggested before the game on another post. Parker has to avoid doing a Bielsa to our players, Bielsa’s lack of rotation ends with end of season burnout, which is not good as you only make the playoffs then.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 02:19:41 AM by The Rational Fan »

Offline S.F.Sorrow

  • Graham Leggat
  • **
  • Posts: 444
Re: Ream
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2019, 08:02:06 AM »
Ream does have some good footballing skills but for a defender he is not very good at actual defending. He was to blame for both goals yesterdays. He doesn't have the pace or aerial strength to deal with route one teams.

Offline Facts Not Fiction

  • Graham Leggat
  • **
  • Posts: 900
Re: Ream
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2019, 08:43:10 AM »
1 bad game doesn’t mask over the fact that he has been consistently better than Mawson this season.

He was deployed in a unfamiliar system, which he had basically no training for. He also struggled last year when in a back 3, so it’s obvious as well that the system doesn’t suit him.


Offline Statto

  • Gentleman Jim
  • ***
  • Posts: 8051
Re: Ream
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2019, 10:06:41 AM »
1 bad game doesn’t mask over the fact that he has been consistently better than Mawson this season.

It does mask that fact. It is so thoroughly masked, that most people haven't even seen it, and would say it's not even a "fact" at all.

Offline ALG01

  • Graham Leggat
  • **
  • Posts: 796
Re: Ream
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2019, 10:17:55 AM »
Ream was poor yesterday but very good most of this season. I thought the formation killed the back 3 especially as cav and knock seemed to go missing helping out.

Offline @jolslover

  • MAESTRO
  • **
  • Posts: 2631
Re: Ream
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2019, 10:51:33 AM »
Ream has been one of our best players this season and IMO much better than Mawson.


Offline Facts Not Fiction

  • Graham Leggat
  • **
  • Posts: 900
Re: Ream
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2019, 11:23:53 AM »
1 bad game doesn’t mask over the fact that he has been consistently better than Mawson this season.

It does mask that fact. It is so thoroughly masked, that most people haven't even seen it, and would say it's not even a "fact" at all.

Most people I reckon disagree with you.

Offline Twig

  • Gentleman Jim
  • ***
  • Posts: 6894
Re: Ream
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2019, 11:28:06 AM »
1 bad game doesn’t mask over the fact that he has been consistently better than Mawson this season.

It does mask that fact. It is so thoroughly masked, that most people haven't even seen it, and would say it's not even a "fact" at all.

If we are talking a Ream /Mawson comparison this season then I have to agree that Ream has played the better football and been at least as reliable defensively.
I just don’t think that our squad is suitable for a 343 type of set up. TRF offers a more balanced line up for this formation but why force fit our personnel around something they are less suited to? I can see that we can sometimes go to 343 part way through a game but that is in response to specific situations and usually against a tiring opposition.

Offline toshes mate

  • cebu
  • *
  • Posts: 4971
  • Vitam Impendere Vero
Re: Ream
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2019, 11:33:19 AM »
I have written elsewhere about self confirmatory bias and the basis of this thread fits the equation for bias almost perfectly.

It was a very naive team selection and formation by Parker and I criticise him strongly for that.  Of course the international break hinders with management issues as much as it may help since many players have tough schedules away from their home clubs.  But that is the same for all clubs with good players likely to make appearances for their country, but the impact on fatigue is different for each.  IMO Mawson and Ream are on much the same level for quality but for very different reasons, and to try to etch a perceptible difference between them is a risky business when there are considerably more important problems to be resolved within the current team and formation.  I will continue to be patient with Parker but I expected him to be a stronger task master than what I have seen so far, and that bothers me. 


Online The Rational Fan

  • Jimmy Hill
  • *
  • Posts: 2242
Re: Ream
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2019, 11:39:49 AM »
1 bad game doesn’t mask over the fact that he has been consistently better than Mawson this season.

It does mask that fact. It is so thoroughly masked, that most people haven't even seen it, and would say it's not even a "fact" at all.

Most people I reckon disagree with you.

When debating how good Tim Ream is we need to distiguish between "Tim Ream rested for 5 days " or "Tim Ream recovering from a recent game"

"Tim Ream Rested" is still a good player, games where he had 5+ days of rest include Blackburn, Huddersfield, Millwall, Cardiff, Wednesday and Wigan.

"Tim Ream Recovering" is not as good a player, where he had 4 (or less) days of rest include Forest, WBA, Reading, Charlton and Stoke.

The four players with the biggest dip in "whoscored ratings" when having a less than 5 day rest between games includes S.Sess, Bryan, Mawson and Ream.

We need more rotation in the backline particularly S.Sess and Joe Bryan whose worse games before Stoke were Forest, Cardiff and Charlton that all short rests before the game.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 12:40:38 PM by The Rational Fan »

Offline Statto

  • Gentleman Jim
  • ***
  • Posts: 8051
Re: Ream
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2019, 12:40:08 PM »
Instead of relying on subjective opinions driven by nostalgia and how good he looks when not actually having to defend, why not consider the goals we've conceded this season:

Barnsley - Bryan beaten and primarily responsible
Huddersfield - Mawson's man (Grant) that scores
Forest (1) - Ream easily beaten to the ball by Grabban
Forest (2) - Sessegnon caught in possession, Ream easily wrong-footed
Cardiff - Sessegnon caught flat-footed, Mawson fails to stop the shot, Bettinelli beaten by a weak shot
West Brom - Bettinelli cock-up, drops cross
Sheffield Wednesday - Nuhiu beats Bryan to the cross
Reading - long range shot, probably the midfield most at fault
Charlton (1) - Bryan totally out of position leaving Charlton player unmarked at far post, defence is then in total disarray when he knocks it down for Gallagher
Charlton (2) - Mitrovic beaten to the header
Stoke (1) - Campbell easily shrugs off Ream
Stoke (2) - Ream embarrassingly outpaced leaving 1-v-1 which results in penalty

All in all, only goals we've conceded this season where you could say Mawson should have done better is the Huddersfield goal, and maybe the Cardiff goal (so 1-2 goals). Ream was poor for both Forest goals and both Stoke goals (so 4 goals).

The Forest game was our 3rd fixture in 9 days so maybe Ream's issue is just fatigue.

Whatever the cause, he's been a lot worse than Mawson defensively this season.

Online The Rational Fan

  • Jimmy Hill
  • *
  • Posts: 2242
Re: Ream
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2019, 01:02:01 PM »
Instead of relying on subjective opinions driven by nostalgia and how good he looks when not actually having to defend, why not consider the goals we've conceded this season:

Barnsley - Bryan beaten and primarily responsible
Huddersfield - Mawson's man (Grant) that scores
Forest (1) - Ream easily beaten to the ball by Grabban
Forest (2) - Sessegnon caught in possession, Ream easily wrong-footed
Cardiff - Sessegnon caught flat-footed, Mawson fails to stop the shot, Bettinelli beaten by a weak shot
West Brom - Bettinelli cock-up, drops cross
Sheffield Wednesday - Nuhiu beats Bryan to the cross
Reading - long range shot, probably the midfield most at fault
Charlton (1) - Bryan totally out of position leaving Charlton player unmarked at far post, defence is then in total disarray when he knocks it down for Gallagher
Charlton (2) - Mitrovic beaten to the header
Stoke (1) - Campbell easily shrugs off Ream
Stoke (2) - Ream embarrassingly outpaced leaving 1-v-1 which results in penalty

All in all, only goals we've conceded this season where you could say Mawson should have done better is the Huddersfield goal, and maybe the Cardiff goal (so 1-2 goals). Ream was poor for both Forest goals and both Stoke goals (so 4 goals).

The Forest game was our 3rd fixture in 9 days so maybe Ream's issue is just fatigue.

Whatever the cause, he's been a lot worse than Mawson defensively this season.

According to your Statistics (which I agree with), Ream has made four mistakes, but all in games where he has had 3 days rest. With a good rest Ream has been mistake free, and when Ream doesn't made defensive mistakes he is a better centre back than Mawson.
 
Forest (1) - mistake by Ream   "3 days since Milwall"
Forest (2) - mistake by Sessegnon &  Ream    3 days since Milwall
Stoke (1) - mistake by Ream   3 days since international duty
Stoke (2) - mistake by Ream    3 days since international duty

Other Goals conceeded with player having less than 5 days rest.
Reading - mistake by Midfield   4 days since last game
Charlton (1) - mistake by Bryan   4 days since last game
Charlton (2) - mistake by Mitrovic   4 days since last game

Goals conceeded where player at fault was well rested.
Barnsley - mistake by Bryan   7 days since last game
Huddersfield - mistake by Mawson   7 days since last game
Cardiff - mistake by Sessegnon & Bettinelli    6 days since last game they played
West Brom - mistake by Bettinelli    15 days since last game
Sheffield Wednesday - mistake by Bryan   7 days since last game

Ream's whoscored statistics for 19/20 when he has less than 4 days rest are (6.53), which not as good as MLM 18/19 (6.72) and Odoi 18/19 (6.62). Ream is making a lot of defensive mistakes when he only has three days rest, and the rest of the time he is defensively solid.

Ream's performance this season with 3 days break is 6.53, with 4 days break is 6.66 and with 5-7 days break is 6.71. Mawson is a much better defender according to whoscored but with a good rest, it is statistical close between the two players and hence debatable.

My conclusion is Ream should only be playing once a week; because so far he hasn't made a defensive mistake in any game he has had 5 days rest. If Ream cannot get at least a 4 day rest, MLM and Mawson should be playing, but if Ream has a good rest he has been as good as Mawson this season.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 01:40:40 PM by The Rational Fan »

Offline Lighthouse

  • Moritz Volz
  • ***
  • Posts: 18304
Re: Ream
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2019, 01:12:18 PM »
It was a bad selection and formation on a day when players were coming back from international duty. Against a team who had shown they were turning the corner in the last game they played.

All of which shouldn't hide the fact that Ream has good days. Two seasons ago he had quite a few good days. But however good or bad the players around him. Ream is not ever going to be a player we should plan a defence around. Not that yesterday was all his fault. But we still need a decent defensive pairing and have done for more than three seasons.

Offline Statto

  • Gentleman Jim
  • ***
  • Posts: 8051
Re: Ream
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2019, 02:12:00 PM »
My conclusion is Ream should only be playing once a week; because so far he hasn't made a defensive mistake in any game he has had 5 days rest. If Ream cannot get at least a 4 day rest, MLM and Mawson should be playing, but if Ream has a good rest he has been as good as Mawson this season.

In fairness I recall you suggesting we bring in MLM for this match and thought it was madness. But with hindsight, looking a Ream's performance and my own analysis above, I have to say you may well have been right. I agree, it seems Ream just doesn't have the legs to play more than a game per week.

In any case, in two months I both hope and suspect he'll become backup to Mawson and Hector.