So What Has To Change

[filham]

A lot on this board are calling for a Change of manager and most of the rest of us are suggesting a change of tactics.
Clearly it is much too early for a change of manager, after all of those managers last season we have to give Parker a decent run and the opportunity to put things right, perhaps with a couple of good new signings after Chrismas. The only sensible time to gamble with a new manager would be about six games from the end of the season when all chances of promotion are gone.
With regard to tactics, remember the current tactics are not far removed from those used in that brilliant run under Jocanovic that gained us promotion, remember also that it took time and a couple of good Christmas signings for the system to look good under Jocanovic.

Parker has dropped the idea of overlapping fullbacks used with success by Jocanovic possibly because the current fullbacks do not have the skills and pace of the players available to Jocanovic and because he feels that such an attacking option would leave openings at the back.

So what tactical changes can be made.

Perhaps moving the ball quicker out of defence and in particular getting earlier balls out to the wide men he has hugging the touchline in a forward position.

Parker should also never ever under any circumstance play three at the back, it just doesn't work for us.

[SuffolkWhite]

I think he has to experiment with tactics and I know the 352 (or whatever it was) did not work at Stoke was it? But my point is that different things have to be tried.

I would like to see 2 forwards in either a  442 or 4411 but it's taking risks, quicker tempo passing football and dare I say more counter attacking....... thing is SP will be looking at all of this anyway. Also the players have all had individual errors this season which in my estimation has cost us at least 4 points. And were would we be with the those extra points? 3rd place!! So how bad is it in reality.

[One Martin Thomas]

We need a defensive coach to sort the back four out and also hope that Hector was not signed too late.  We need to settle on a right back and perhaps look at Dramah ?? I didn't like Odoi the yr we went up and he's still here in the first team !!

I have seen Cavaleiro destroy us, so what's going on there ???? Same for Knockaert !!!!

[The Rational Fan]

I think he has to experiment with tactics and I know the 352 (or whatever it was) did not work at Stoke was it? But my point is that different things have to be tried.

I would like to see 2 forwards in either a  442 or 4411 but it's taking risks, quicker tempo passing football and dare I say more counter attacking....... thing is SP will be looking at all of this anyway. Also the players have all had individual errors this season which in my estimation has cost us at least 4 points. And were would we be with the those extra points? 3rd place!! So how bad is it in reality.

Where do Cairney, Cav and Knockaert play in a 352, 442 or 4411?

352             Betts
        Odoi   Mawson Ream
Christie   Reed  Stefjo    Bryan
                  Cairney
              Mitro    Reid
Problem: No place for Cav or Knockaert

442             Betts
Odoi   Mawson  Ream  Bryan
Cav   Reed       Stefjo   Knockaert
           Mitro      Reid
Problem: No place for Cairney

The formation helps but players aren't playing well.                 

[Peabody]

We need a defensive coach to sort the back four out and also hope that Hector was not signed too late.  We need to settle on a right back and perhaps look at Dramah ?? I didn't like Odoi the yr we went up and he's still here in the first team !!

I have seen Cavaleiro destroy us, so what's going on there ???? Same for Knockaert !!!!

Thought we had Stuart Gray as defensive coach

[One Martin Thomas]

We need a defensive coach to sort the back four out and also hope that Hector was not signed too late.  We need to settle on a right back and perhaps look at Dramah ?? I didn't like Odoi the yr we went up and he's still here in the first team !!

I have seen Cavaleiro destroy us, so what's going on there ???? Same for Knockaert !!!!

Thought we had Stuart Gray as defensive coach

He's not doing a very good job 😉

[Spirit of 2000]

Why is it clearly too early for a change of manager?? Delay and the gap between us and top 6 will grow. We have one of the best 2 or 3 squads in the division  This too slow, too predictable,  sideways and backwards possession with not enough end product needs to change and Parker has categorically stated he wont change.

[ScalleysDad]

I think he has to experiment with tactics and I know the 352 (or whatever it was) did not work at Stoke was it? But my point is that different things have to be tried.

I would like to see 2 forwards in either a  442 or 4411 but it's taking risks, quicker tempo passing football and dare I say more counter attacking....... thing is SP will be looking at all of this anyway. Also the players have all had individual errors this season which in my estimation has cost us at least 4 points. And were would we be with the those extra points? 3rd place!! So how bad is it in reality.

Where do Cairney, Cav and Knockaert play in a 352, 442 or 4411?

352             Betts
        Odoi   Mawson Ream
Christie   Reed  Stefjo    Bryan
                  Cairney
              Mitro    Reid
Problem: No place for Cav or Knockaert

442             Betts
Odoi   Mawson  Ream  Bryan
Cav   Reed       Stefjo   Knockaert
           Mitro      Reid
Problem: No place for Cairney

The formation helps but players aren't playing well.                 

"No place for Cairney". Offers up the question discussed on the train the other day, 'Is the potential in the first team squad stymied by trying to accommodate Cairney just in case he has a blinder?'. In the 4.4.2 noted above Mitro has an accomplice actually alongside him and the midfield four have the likes of Arter to bolster it or rotate with Stefjo. Could it work?
In a way it's the same for Mitro. Top goal scorer and all that but would a different option up top plus 4.4.2 playing it on the deck create more chances with Reid more central? Looking at the subs bench yesterday it was almost a case of stick or twist if you took the view that Cairney was always going to do 90 minutes. It's a discussion point only but for me the lower placed teams we have lost to have had two constants, work rate and ten outfield players not looking to include one or two players in every move. If anybody could be bothered I am sure there is a stat somewhere of where the goals are coming from in other top ten teams, I expect it's a bit more spread across the teams in question.

It's a discussion point not a Cairney is big useless girl post!!!!!!

[WindyCity]

So what tactical changes can be made.

I would simply say being more aggressive during "transition" opportunities.  Okay, so if FFC wants to sit back and play the possession game, fine.  BUT, when a transition situation presents itself, then go balls out and try to make something happen, rather than just pull the ball back and settle into possession.  I do think we have good players, especially on the offense.  Go for it, be aggressive, overlapping runs, etc.  Try to make something happen.

[Barrett487]

So what tactical changes can be made.

Perhaps moving the ball quicker out of defence and in particular getting earlier balls out to the wide men he has hugging the touchline in a forward position.

Parker should also never ever under any circumstance play three at the back, it just doesn't work for us.

This is, i would think, the most common criticism of our play. Slav used Aluko, Fredericks, Malone, Sess, etc. to attack swiftly. We now try the slow build-up, allowing opposition to regroup and it also encourages any of their players with the inclination to harass us into errors, or play square (or both). We play too much negative possession football instead of attacking possession football.

[Denver Fulham]

Playing Cav and Knock so wide and without FB support in attack on at least one flank is basically forcing them to freelance one on one too much, and swing crosses into one person (Mitrovic). We don't play through Mitro as a hub nearly enough, and there's not enough bodies in the box consistently.

[absenteeism]

What has to change?

Simple.

Tony Khan would rather fail his way than succeed a different way (eg Jok's way).

His stats based transfer model is a nonsense. When is the last time we signed a relatively unknown player whose value increased while playing with us? That's what Moneyball is all about.

It doesn't take a genius to realise that Cairney, Mitro, Cairney, Knock are all good players. We paid a heavy price for all of them though.

Nothing will change. Our club is directionless.

[gang]

I think Tom should be left out, it is very predictable when he has the ball he goes around in circles trying to keep the ball on his left foot before he does anything, making the whole move too slow.

[ScalleysDad]

I think Tom should be left out, it is very predictable when he has the ball he goes around in circles trying to keep the ball on his left foot before he does anything, making the whole move too slow.

Go and get your Kevlar kit on. You might be right of course but get it on just in case.

Brought to you as a public service.

[LittleErn]

I'd say we don't have the right defenders to play a high defensive line. Once the ball is played over or past them they don't have the pace to catch their man. (Odoi is perhaps an exception.) Ream and Mawson are better players with the ball in front of them. It's noticeable that whenever our opposition attack there are spaces for them to run and  pass into - when we attac,k the final third is so congested that there is no time for our players to control balls and passes are often intercepted - leading to counter atttacks into those wide open areas.

[WolverineFFC]

So what tactical changes can be made.

Perhaps moving the ball quicker out of defence and in particular getting earlier balls out to the wide men he has hugging the touchline in a forward position.

Parker should also never ever under any circumstance play three at the back, it just doesn't work for us.

This is, i would think, the most common criticism of our play. Slav used Aluko, Fredericks, Malone, Sess, etc. to attack swiftly. We now try the slow build-up, allowing opposition to regroup and it also encourages any of their players with the inclination to harass us into errors, or play square (or both). We play too much negative possession football instead of attacking possession football.

Completely agree with your statement. Our defending has not been good enough, but the risk/reward is way out of proportion. You will see a well placed pass break the pressing forward line into midfield. Instead of turning to attack, the ball will immediately be passed backwards to Ream or Mawson. There is no risk for the opposition who presses up the field.

Also, the attack is static. Too many people calling for the ball to feet as opposed to making off the ball runs or looking for one-twos. Looks like one man dribbling with 9 pylons standing around watching. Is easy for a well organised defense to defend.

[LittleErn]

So what tactical changes can be made.

Perhaps moving the ball quicker out of defence and in particular getting earlier balls out to the wide men he has hugging the touchline in a forward position.

Parker should also never ever under any circumstance play three at the back, it just doesn't work for us.

This is, i would think, the most common criticism of our play. Slav used Aluko, Fredericks, Malone, Sess, etc. to attack swiftly. We now try the slow build-up, allowing opposition to regroup and it also encourages any of their players with the inclination to harass us into errors, or play square (or both). We play too much negative possession football instead of attacking possession football.

Completely agree with your statement. Our defending has not been good enough, but the risk/reward is way out of proportion. You will see a well placed pass break the pressing forward line into midfield. Instead of turning to attack, the ball will immediately be passed backwards to Ream or Mawson. There is no risk for the opposition who presses up the field.

Also, the attack is static. Too many people calling for the ball to feet as opposed to making off the ball runs or looking for one-twos. Looks like one man dribbling with 9 pylons standing around watching. Is easy for a well organised defense to defend.

+1

[Whitesideup]

Playing Cav and Knock so wide and without FB support in attack on at least one flank is basically forcing them to freelance one on one too much, and swing crosses into one person (Mitrovic). We don't play through Mitro as a hub nearly enough, and there's not enough bodies in the box consistently.

This is it for me. Width? No good if there's an isolated Mitro in the middle. I'm afraid the roles of Cav and Knockaert have to change .. if they can. But having wide players is not delivering opportunities for us. By the time they get the ball, there are nearly always 2 players marking them.

We should try a standard 4-4-2 with Bobby alongside Mitro up front, or just behind him in a no 10 role. Can we have standard left and right midfielders rather than out and out wingers? Width can then be provided by them or attacking full backs. But when we are wide right, then left side drop in, either into a central attacking role, or defensive cover so we don't get caught out on the break. We could then move the ball more quickly from defence as we would have more than one man up there being marked by 2 centre-backs. Bobby could also "run the channels", something we don't do.

We have the players but we need a system and a tactic that works more effectively than our current set-up.

[filham]

Playing Cav and Knock so wide and without FB support in attack on at least one flank is basically forcing them to freelance one on one too much, and swing crosses into one person (Mitrovic). We don't play through Mitro as a hub nearly enough, and there's not enough bodies in the box consistently.

This is it for me. Width? No good if there's an isolated Mitro in the middle. I'm afraid the roles of Cav and Knockaert have to change .. if they can. But having wide players is not delivering opportunities for us. By the time they get the ball, there are nearly always 2 players marking them.

We should try a standard 4-4-2 with Bobby alongside Mitro up front, or just behind him in a no 10 role. Can we have standard left and right midfielders rather than out and out wingers? Width can then be provided by them or attacking full backs. But when we are wide right, then left side drop in, either into a central attacking role, or defensive cover so we don't get caught out on the break. We could then move the ball more quickly from defence as we would have more than one man up there being marked by 2 centre-backs. Bobby could also "run the channels", something we don't do.

We have the players but we need a system and a tactic that works more effectively than our current set-up.
[/quoteY

Playing Cav and Knock so wide and without FB support in attack on at least one flank is basically forcing them to freelance one on one too much, and swing crosses into one person (Mitrovic). We don't play through Mitro as a hub nearly enough, and there's not enough bodies in the box consistently.

This is it for me. Width? No good if there's an isolated Mitro in the middle. I'm afraid the roles of Cav and Knockaert have to change .. if they can. But having wide players is not delivering opportunities for us. By the time they get the ball, there are nearly always 2 players marking them.

We should try a standard 4-4-2 with Bobby alongside Mitro up front, or just behind him in a no 10 role. Can we have standard left and right midfielders rather than out and out wingers? Width can then be provided by them or attacking full backs. But when we are wide right, then left side drop in, either into a central attacking role, or defensive cover so we don't get caught out on the break. We could then move the ball more quickly from defence as we would have more than one man up there being marked by 2 centre-backs. Bobby could also "run the channels", something we don't do.

We have the players but we need a system and a tactic that works more effectively than our current set-up.

Yes, sounds good to me, we really need to get the wide players into the game more and quicker, most of the game they could be mistaken for refugees from the Riverside stand who have found a temporary home as touchline spectators.

Start thinking about this line up:-           
                                                             Rodak
                                      Christie      Odoi          Mawson        Ream
                                                              McDonald
                                       Reed              Johansen           Cavy
                                                Camara              Mirovic

[Matt10]

It's a tough spot because we have some good playmakers that are not the best in defensive support, or can get in the box easier. I primarily look at Johansen because he is a true playmaker, but he can't get into the box the same way Bobby Reid can. I think the real dilemma is Reid in all honesty. He's got such incredible play about him, but he's not finding the back of the net. So, we are forced to drop one of our game-changers like Knockaert, who has scored goals, or Johansen, who can create goals.

I think a 4-1-4-1 provides the best balance for us. However, it's the central midfielders that give me trouble because I'm only thinking about what was severely lacking against Hull - which was lack of runs into the box. How many times were there great slotted passes, with no-one on the end of it? We do so well to get the ball out wide, which allows the strong possession as high up as the opponent's defensive third, but the issue is that our final ball lacks because our central players are not an attacking threat. Sure, we can get TC at the top of the box to lace in a beauty, but the consistency of that happening are less.

What has been consistence is our lack of a final ball, and that's why I've proposed this kind of set up:

4-1-4-1

                     Rodak

Odoi     Mawson    Ream     Bryan

                    Johansen

Reid     Cairney    Cav      Knockaert

                      Mitro

With this set-up, we now have our goal scorers all in a tight spot, while we keep sending Reid up because he's surely to break out soon. Johansen's role is pivotal because not only can he play the safe pass, he is well documented to send in the direct pass. He likes playmaking, we need to keep him in a position to do so. He is one of the best passers on the team, and has the highest range in passing.

Keeping Cavaleiro closer to Mitro is essential because we know he'll get in the box and we know he'll find the target more than Reid. He also has shown countless times how diligent he is to get back on defensive duty. Having a backpost run of either Reid or Knockaert can also mean more attacking threat when we actually get those crosses in so it's not just Mitro standing statically with a two defenders draped around him.

Yes, I know in this scenario Reed doesn't get a play, but he's not a playmaker the way Johansen is. I'd rather have that chance of us picking up the pace to go through Johansen because he has the experience of being the club's leader in assist before. This formation can be used in all match scenarios as well, which bodes well for different plug-n-play personnel such as Arter/Reed/KMac >> Johansen; or Onomah > Cavaleiro; or Kebano >> Reid/Knockaert ; etc.

The most important function is the runs into the box. That is missing badly right now, and it is skewing our attacks where our pace of possession is in question versus actually what is the end result of the possession. To me, it shouldn't matter what pace we have, just as long as we are firing on all cylinders - which we are not at all. You can tell this because fans are still complaining about our pace of possession even though we actually played much quicker than previous matches. Heck, people even complained about our pace of possession against Boro, when we were a man down. I think the power of suggestion is dominating that conversation rather than actually taking the time to understand the end result of possessions.