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I knew we would lose when LE Marchand came io

Started by The Swan, November 04, 2019, 10:18:59 PM

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The Swan

As soon as Le Marchant came on as sub I just knew that we would lose the game.

Apart from not heading the ball away for their first goal he was just awful.

I know that most of our team just did not turn up on Saturday so we were outplayed .


Please Mr Parker don't pick LE Marchant again. Even as a sub.
The Swan

Sgt Fulham


Whitestone

We haven't had a centre half partnership since the days of Hughes and Hangeland. Mind you they were superb so not so easy to replace. Hoping that Mawson and Hector can gel together in a similar way.

My view for what it's worth is that Le Marchand was the wrong option when Bryan went off injured. I would have moved Odoi to the left and brought Sess on.


Classic94


Logicalman

My question would be; Why do we not have a backup for Joe then? And if we do, who?
Logical is just in the name - don't expect it has anything to do with my thought process, because I AM the man who sold the world.

Matt10

Knowing the result, it's a painful match to rewatch. After doing so, however, I see no issues with how LeMarchand played overall. It's unfortunate because he'll always be judged from last year. Granted the goal doesn't help an argument in favor of him, but other than that I didn't see any significant errors. I recall he played well at LB last year, most notably away vs Chelsea. I think he needs to stay at the LB role versus covering CBs.


The Rational Fan

#6
Quote from: Sgt Fulham on November 04, 2019, 10:35:08 PM
He is a player we need to get rid of.

Nothing could be more stupid than selling MLM, he is a player we 2000% don't want to get rid of, even if he doesn't play.

We pay MLM around £30,000 per week, and if we sell him we'll have to cut wages by £100,000 per week.

Frankly, i think he will be a strong 4th centre back in the second part of the season. While the first goal was partly his fault other players also are to blame.

@jolslover

Quote from: The Rational Fan on November 05, 2019, 06:09:10 AM
Quote from: Sgt Fulham on November 04, 2019, 10:35:08 PM
He is a player we need to get rid of.

Nothing could be more stupid than selling MLM, he is a player we 2000% don't want to get rid of, even if he doesn't play.

We pay MLM around £30,000 per week, and if we sell him we'll have to cut wages by £100,000 per week.

Frankly, i think he will be a strong 4th centre back in the second part of the season. While the first goal was partly his fault other players also are to blame.


Wait what? Why would selling him mean we have to cut wages

It was very poor defending from MLM, but also Mawson dived in further up the pitch leaving us exposed at the back which lead to the goal

STH H3

Dr Quinzel

When he plays, we lose. He's a Jonah, and isn't that talented.


Spirit of 2000

Quote from: The Rational Fan on November 05, 2019, 06:09:10 AM
Quote from: Sgt Fulham on November 04, 2019, 10:35:08 PM
He is a player we need to get rid of.

Nothing could be more stupid than selling MLM, he is a player we 2000% don't want to get rid of, even if he doesn't play.

We pay MLM around £30,000 per week, and if we sell him we'll have to cut wages by £100,000 per week.

Frankly, i think he will be a strong 4th centre back in the second part of the season. While the first goal was partly his fault other players also are to blame.


I absolutely do not understand this point. Why is losing his wages off our wage bill a bad thing & how will it impact other wages? MLM is a liability as a player, with Hector in he's 4th choice CB & 3rd choice LB - personally I want more for 30k pw!

Stoneleigh Loyalist

I made the observation after about 30 minutes that it reminded me of a schoolboys game where you have the little boy in the team making up the numbers and no one passes to him. Not that MLM is small but it did seem in a number of cases that the passer turned away from him rather than giving him the ball. A lack of confidence in what he would be doing with it?

toshes mate

Quote from: Stoneleigh Loyalist on November 05, 2019, 09:33:52 AM
I made the observation after about 30 minutes that it reminded me of a schoolboys game where you have the little boy in the team making up the numbers and no one passes to him. Not that MLM is small but it did seem in a number of cases that the passer turned away from him rather than giving him the ball. A lack of confidence in what he would be doing with it?
Well observed and not just true of Max Le Marchand, and something that is usually dealt with in training and coaching processes.


bill taylors apprentice

Quote from: The Rational Fan on November 05, 2019, 06:09:10 AM
Quote from: Sgt Fulham on November 04, 2019, 10:35:08 PM
He is a player we need to get rid of.

Nothing could be more stupid than selling MLM, he is a player we 2000% don't want to get rid of, even if he doesn't play.

We pay MLM around £30,000 per week, and if we sell him we'll have to cut wages by £100,000 per week.

Frankly, i think he will be a strong 4th centre back in the second part of the season. While the first goal was partly his fault other players also are to blame.


I don't know whether I should laugh or cry at such b@ll@cks!
If he isn't passing the ball to the opposition he's avoiding any physical battle in the most physical of leagues.
I have 70 year old defenders in my walking football team who tackle better than him and walking football is a minimum contact game!


Statto

Quote from: The Rational Fan on November 05, 2019, 06:09:10 AM
Quote from: Sgt Fulham on November 04, 2019, 10:35:08 PM
He is a player we need to get rid of.

Nothing could be more stupid than selling MLM, he is a player we 2000% don't want to get rid of, even if he doesn't play.

We pay MLM around £30,000 per week, and if we sell him we'll have to cut wages by £100,000 per week.

Frankly, i think he will be a strong 4th centre back in the second part of the season. While the first goal was partly his fault other players also are to blame.


We have no idea what his book value is. Some on here claim half the £25m we paid for Seri and MLM (ie, £12m+) was allocated to MLM. Equally I wouldn't be surprised if his book value is only £3m. So who knows how selling him would affect our finances? It could be positive. 

Economics aside, I refuse to believe a player with his track record isn't good enough to be, as you say, a useful 4th choice CB in the second tier. Yes he's been woeful but clearly his confidence is shot. The right manager could probably restore that and make at least a decent Championship CB out of him.

Chutney

Quote from: Whitestone on November 04, 2019, 10:54:06 PM
We haven't had a centre half partnership since the days of Hughes and Hangeland. Mind you they were superb so not so easy to replace. Hoping that Mawson and Hector can gel together in a similar way.

My view for what it's worth is that Le Marchand was the wrong option when Bryan went off injured. I would have moved Odoi to the left and brought Sess on.

It will be Ream and Hector with Mawson as back up. Or perhaps a three?
C O Y W


Matt10

Quote from: toshes mate on November 05, 2019, 09:55:18 AM
Quote from: Stoneleigh Loyalist on November 05, 2019, 09:33:52 AM
I made the observation after about 30 minutes that it reminded me of a schoolboys game where you have the little boy in the team making up the numbers and no one passes to him. Not that MLM is small but it did seem in a number of cases that the passer turned away from him rather than giving him the ball. A lack of confidence in what he would be doing with it?
Well observed and not just true of Max Le Marchand, and something that is usually dealt with in training and coaching processes.

I'm not sure I follow this logic. At least, it was not displayed or seemed to be validated on the pitch. Again, from watching the replay 90 minutes, LeMarchand is quite involved in our possession and attacks. He does exactly what Bryan does defensively in pressuring very high and wide. His crossing quality isn't as strong as Bryan, but he also did not get many chances to do so.

Have you ever wondered how we are able to maintain such high possession against most teams? It's because Parker's system is built on using the opposition's width against them. Our wingers are the primary passing lane, as they are checking back to the ball. This allows the fullbacks to be a secondary passing lane. The third passing lane is the advanced midfielder. The fullbacks also have the freedom to tuck in central, like a defensive midfielder, when the ball is on the opposite side.

30 minutes into the match, LeMarchand has multiple passes received, well involved, including 3 tackles. The one time an obvious pass could have been made to him was when Ream bypassed MLM and Cavaleiro to a direct 20 yard pass to TC. The reason TC was open is because both Cav and LeMarchand were wide, and the opposing defending players had been moved from side to side on the previous sequence where MLM had tucked inside briefly, resulting in Hull to over-commit. That was enough for Ream to send in a direct pass to TC, in which he sent a lovely low cross, but no-one was able to get on the end of it.

There were 2-3 sequences in which LeMarchand could've been played in, but Odoi experienced the same on the other side. The reason they do not receive the pass is because they are not the primary recipient. When the primary recipient is the winger, it lengthens the pitch and creates a less obvious triangle. So Ream plays to Cav, who can play back to Ream, turn, play center, or pass back wide to MLM. Odoi on the other side has this with Reid and Mawson. This type of attacking sequence disguises itself as playing slow, but is actually quite effective because the obvious passing lanes are not taken, making it quite difficult to set up a proper defensive strategy. It's another reason we do not see a lot of overlapping fullbacks like in Slav's system because that narrows our width and narrows the passing lanes.

I know it's very popular to root against LeMarchand. He hasn't helped himself in the past. However, he did not have a bad match at all. This narrative that he wasn't being played in by the other boys is a bit of a reach. He slotted in well for our system, and I remain in favor of him playing as a left back versus center back. It does no good to break the team apart, player-by-player, but I completely understand why he's a target. Like a couple of our players from last year, until he either assists or scores goals, I don't think he will be welcomed on the pitch by Fulham supporters for a while. Thankfully he's a professional, and seems to be well liked, and can hopefully rise above the adversity - which goes for all our players and coaches.

Dr Quinzel

Judging Le Marchand based on his passing is like judging Bettinelli on his hold up play.

He isn't a very good defender. When he is on the pitch, we lose. It IS as simple as that.

When Hector comes in, hopefully he is moved on.

Spirit of 2000

Quote from: Statto on November 05, 2019, 10:38:43 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on November 05, 2019, 06:09:10 AM
Quote from: Sgt Fulham on November 04, 2019, 10:35:08 PM
He is a player we need to get rid of.

Nothing could be more stupid than selling MLM, he is a player we 2000% don't want to get rid of, even if he doesn't play.

We pay MLM around £30,000 per week, and if we sell him we'll have to cut wages by £100,000 per week.

Frankly, i think he will be a strong 4th centre back in the second part of the season. While the first goal was partly his fault other players also are to blame.


We have no idea what his book value is. Some on here claim half the £25m we paid for Seri and MLM (ie, £12m+) was allocated to MLM. Equally I wouldn't be surprised if his book value is only £3m. So who knows how selling him would affect our finances? It could be positive. 

Economics aside, I refuse to believe a player with his track record isn't good enough to be, as you say, a useful 4th choice CB in the second tier. Yes he's been woeful but clearly his confidence is shot. The right manager could probably restore that and make at least a decent Championship CB out of him.


Ah I'm now with the logic of the selling him is madness thing. As you say it depends on what his official fee was - the Seri/MLM deal was a disaster in many ways as well as being allegedly dodgy. If he value was artificially increased as part of the deal then probably the best thing we can do is farm him off to a French club on loan and see if anyone is willing to pay his wages or at least part of them.


Sting of the North

Quote from: Dr Quinzel on November 06, 2019, 09:07:55 AM
Judging Le Marchand based on his passing is like judging Bettinelli on his hold up play.

He isn't a very good defender. When he is on the pitch, we lose. It IS as simple as that.

When Hector comes in, hopefully he is moved on.

A completely meaningless comparison. Passing is a big part of our defenders game. Hold up play is not a part of Bettinelli's game. Also, almost nothing is ever as simple as just describing something in the most subjective and shallow way possible. Not even if one uses capital letters.

With that said, never been a fan of MLM myself, but as Matt points out, it will always be an uphill battle for most of the players brought in for our remarkably unsuccessful PL campaign. I would probably rate MLM in the same bracket as Odoi and Ream which is competent but not great Championship defenders.

Spirit of 2000

Quote from: Sting of the North on November 06, 2019, 09:22:20 AM
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on November 06, 2019, 09:07:55 AM
Judging Le Marchand based on his passing is like judging Bettinelli on his hold up play.

He isn't a very good defender. When he is on the pitch, we lose. It IS as simple as that.

When Hector comes in, hopefully he is moved on.

A completely meaningless comparison. Passing is a big part of our defenders game. Hold up play is not a part of Bettinelli's game. Also, almost nothing is ever as simple as just describing something in the most subjective and shallow way possible. Not even if one uses capital letters.

With that said, never been a fan of MLM myself, but as Matt points out, it will always be an uphill battle for most of the players brought in for our remarkably unsuccessful PL campaign. I would probably rate MLM in the same bracket as Odoi and Ream which is competent but not great Championship defenders.

Disagree  -  Ream was possibly our player of the season when we won the playoffs & Odoi invaluable when Kalas form dropped, even scoring the key goal to get us to the final. Odoi still a valuable squad player who's versatility is excellent & useful, Ream who's standards may have dropped some with age/injuries is still a much better defender than MLM who is and always has been a bit rubbish really.