Author Topic: Sheffield United 5th in premier  (Read 1844 times)

Offline Spirit of 2000

  • Graham Leggat
  • **
  • Posts: 912
Re: Sheffield United 5th in premier
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2020, 02:17:24 PM »
Are there stats that indicate whether a player has passion, will to win and team spirit? 

Serious question. Personally I doubt it.

I cannot find any, probably because proper D of F and recruitment staff go and watch targets at away matches to find out the character and mentality of players when in a hostile away environment when things do not go their way and are under the cosh, to see how they react. Do they shrink and hide under a blade of grass like like many Fulhams recruits have done in the recent past. Or do they stand up to the challenge and roll their sleeves up, take responsibility and show some bolox.

Bang on the money. Stats mean nothing if the player has no drive, determination and passion about them. We sign players like Seri, Schurrle and countless others who have none.

Offline filham

  • Mr Fayed
  • **
  • Posts: 12916
Re: Sheffield United 5th in premier
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2020, 02:32:25 PM »
My eyes are on London rivals Millwall and Brentford both could be above us and in the top six at 5pm.
Bet no one predicted that at the beginning of the season.

Offline Spirit of 2000

  • Graham Leggat
  • **
  • Posts: 912
Re: Sheffield United 5th in premier
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2020, 02:43:35 PM »
My eyes are on London rivals Millwall and Brentford both could be above us and in the top six at 5pm.
Bet no one predicted that at the beginning of the season.

Exactly the technically inferior Millwall that we outclassed could go above us and Brentford on a fraction of the transfer and wage budget currently sit 4 points above us. Shows what a poor job Tony Khan and Parker are doing given our resources.


Offline Woolly Mammoth

  • Cliffy Dean
  • ****
  • Posts: 25272
  • Not one step back.
Re: Sheffield United 5th in premier
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2020, 02:48:49 PM »
My eyes are on London rivals Millwall and Brentford both could be above us and in the top six at 5pm.
Bet no one predicted that at the beginning of the season.

Exactly the technically inferior Millwall that we outclassed could go above us and Brentford on a fraction of the transfer and wage budget currently sit 4 points above us. Shows what a poor job Tony Khan and Parker are doing given our resources.

Precisely

Offline The Rational Fan

  • The Bard/Corked Hat
  • *
  • Posts: 3354
Re: Sheffield United 5th in premier
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2020, 01:06:10 AM »
Are there stats that indicate whether a player has passion, will to win and team spirit? 

Serious question. Personally I doubt it.

Exactly right about the damned stats etc, as somebody else said, the club made a right mess of our season in the Premier League last year, I hope they can learn from the way teams like Sheffield United operate and look at their philosophies regarding the recruitment of players, but then again unlike us they probably have a qualified D of F.

Statistics show passion or at least they show how many balls you chase down, which is often how fans measure passion as well.

Sheffield United whoscored statistics this season for individual performance are AMAZING even compared to Liverpool’s. While Liverpool statistics normally show 5 great player performances, 4 solid performances and 2 poor performances. Sheffield United has 11 solid players performances every game. Every player in the team is turning out marginally better statistically performance than Calum Chambers gave us last season and 11 players playing better than Calum Chambers last season every game should get you 5th.

Even with Rico, Chambers, Babel and Mitro with good statistics, Fulham 2018/19 is still the 2nd worst whoscored player statistics in the history of the premier league. The statistics show that given how badly the individual players played we should have done much worse. And, if it wasn’t for Rico, Chambers, and Mitro we would have easily had the worst statistics of any team in recorded premier league history (i.e. a decade of whoscored stats).

Statistics full explain Sheffield United performance this season and our poor player statistics full explain Fulham’s performance last season. We should be using more statistics in our recruitment like Brentford and Sheffield United do, not less. Seri’s statistics were good, but were not good enough to justify his price tag.

The question with statistics is a) why when recruiting players like Knockaert and Reid have great statistics, passion and great to watch performances at one club, but doesn’t have any where near as good statistics at Fulham; or b) why players with average statistics at one club (like Salah, De Bynrne, Mitro and most of the Sheffield United Players) join another club to produce great statistics. Very few clubs not just Fulham seem to not be very good at recruiting with most clubs getting it wrong 60% of the time.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 01:18:01 AM by The Rational Fan »

Offline Woolly Mammoth

  • Cliffy Dean
  • ****
  • Posts: 25272
  • Not one step back.
Re: Sheffield United 5th in premier
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2020, 01:29:54 AM »
Are there stats that indicate whether a player has passion, will to win and team spirit? 

Serious question. Personally I doubt it.

Exactly right about the damned stats etc, as somebody else said, the club made a right mess of our season in the Premier League last year, I hope they can learn from the way teams like Sheffield United operate and look at their philosophies regarding the recruitment of players, but then again unlike us they probably have a qualified D of F.

Statistics show passion or at least they show how many balls you chase down, which is often how fans measure passion as well.

Sheffield United whoscored statistics this season for individual performance are AMAZING even compared to Liverpool’s. While Liverpool statistics normally show 5 great player performances, 4 solid performances and 2 poor performances. Sheffield United has 11 solid players performances every game. Every player is turning out the kind of statistically performance that Calum Chambers gave us last season and XI Calum Chambers gets you 5th.

Even with Rico, Chambers, Babel and Mitro with good statistics, Fulham 2018/19 is still the 2nd worst whoscored player statistics in the history of the premier league. The statistics show that given how badly the individual players played we should have done much worse. And, if it wasn’t for Rico, Chambers, and Mitro we would have esay had the worst statistics of any team in the premier league.

Statistics full explain Sheffield United performance this season and poor player statistics full explain Fulham’s performance last season.

The question with statistics is a) why when recruiting players like Knockaert and Reid have great statistics, passion and great to watch performances at one club, but doesn’t have any where near as good statistics at Fulham; or b) why players with average statistics at one club (like Salah, De Bynrne, Mitro and most of the Sheffield United Players) join another club to produce great  statistics.



I feel you have unfortunately been influenced by stats as though it is one of the Ten Commandments.
You don’t need stats to measure passion, work rate, commitment, appetite, loyalty, honesty, tenacity, desire, heart beat, communication, social skills and command of the English language. It’s not the man in the fight, it’s the fight in the man. 
Hence the reason why so many players signed on the strength of stats have failed miserably and arrived through the entrance at MP and left by the exit door without literally blinking an eyelid, too many errors of judgement which have been financial burdens. A profusion of players have come and gone due to this policy. If the club is going to use stats as a addition to their recruitment policy, at least use them properly as other clubs have used them far more successfully than TK and his recruitment unit whose record is mediocre at best, which is where the problem lies. So if anyone should take the responsibility of this issue it’s them.   


Offline Spirit of 2000

  • Graham Leggat
  • **
  • Posts: 912
Re: Sheffield United 5th in premier
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2020, 01:54:34 AM »
I.E ... of late we've signed very few Simon Morgans, Brian McBride's, Brede Hangelands, Danny Murphy's, Clint Dempseys, Rufus Brevetts, Chris Coleman's, Lee Clarks and the like.THESE are the type of players we need.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 02:00:34 AM by Spirit of 2000 »

Offline RaySmith

  • Gentleman Jim
  • ***
  • Posts: 6660
Re: Sheffield United 5th in premier
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2020, 06:10:35 AM »
Are there stats that indicate whether a player has passion, will to win and team spirit? 

Serious question. Personally I doubt it.

Exactly right about the damned stats etc, as somebody else said, the club made a right mess of our season in the Premier League last year, I hope they can learn from the way teams like Sheffield United operate and look at their philosophies regarding the recruitment of players, but then again unlike us they probably have a qualified D of F.

Statistics show passion or at least they show how many balls you chase down, which is often how fans measure passion as well.

Sheffield United whoscored statistics this season for individual performance are AMAZING even compared to Liverpool’s. While Liverpool statistics normally show 5 great player performances, 4 solid performances and 2 poor performances. Sheffield United has 11 solid players performances every game. Every player in the team is turning out marginally better statistically performance than Calum Chambers gave us last season and 11 players playing better than Calum Chambers last season every game should get you 5th.

Even with Rico, Chambers, Babel and Mitro with good statistics, Fulham 2018/19 is still the 2nd worst whoscored player statistics in the history of the premier league. The statistics show that given how badly the individual players played we should have done much worse. And, if it wasn’t for Rico, Chambers, and Mitro we would have easily had the worst statistics of any team in recorded premier league history (i.e. a decade of whoscored stats).

Statistics full explain Sheffield United performance this season and our poor player statistics full explain Fulham’s performance last season. We should be using more statistics in our recruitment like Brentford and Sheffield United do, not less. Seri’s statistics were good, but were not good enough to justify his price tag.

The question with statistics is a) why when recruiting players like Knockaert and Reid have great statistics, passion and great to watch performances at one club, but doesn’t have any where near as good statistics at Fulham; or b) why players with average statistics at one club (like Salah, De Bynrne, Mitro and most of the Sheffield United Players) join another club to produce great statistics. Very few clubs not just Fulham seem to not be very good at recruiting with most clubs getting it wrong 60% of the time.


It shows how many variables  come into play in  making a  successful team.
Sometimes there's just a magic ingredient which you can't define, and which can't be  computerised.

You  sometimes get a group of players who just perform well together, although they may not always be the  greatest players.
Combined with manager and coaching staff who know how to get the best of the players available, then you can have a recipe for success, that just buying players top of the stats list and throwing them together won't.

Reading sporting  literature and bios, one thing is  a mantra - no-one is successful without hard work and dedication, and this is at least equal, or even superior, to natural ability.

Players with great natural ability, but no work ethic or  desire and willingness to work a t least as hard as everyone else, won't get anywhere. Whereas a player with little natural ability can  attain success by dint of desire and sheer hard work.

No  team will get anywhere without these  attributes, usually overseen , even instilled,  by  manager and coaching staff.

The consistently  successful clubs all have this.

I refer again to  a Peter Crouch podcast - where he speaks of being at Liverpool and Gerrard would fire passes at him in training, and you had to be able to control the ball and lay it off quickly or else - you'd be out, no matter how much the club has paid for you. Crouch said that all the top clubs  have these types of players - leaders on and off the pitch, and a work ethic and high standards instilled right through the club. This  gains success.

A player who has the right attitude - who will work selflessly for the team can be invaluable to a team's success, and most teams have these types of unsung heroes, whereas a player who  with great skill,  but doesn't want to work for the team, or hides if things aren't going well, can be more of a liability.

I think Scott Parker was the type of player who always led by example - witness when he was the sole experienced player in Magath's team of youngsters, and always grafted and gave his all in his playing career, and i'm sure he tries to instil these values at Fulham.

Offline colinwhite

  • MAESTRO
  • **
  • Posts: 2527
Re: Sheffield United 5th in premier
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2020, 11:29:27 AM »
Im glad Im not watching Sheffield united every week . They could still get relegated by the way.


Offline Fulhamfan666

  • Graham Leggat
  • **
  • Posts: 632
Re: Sheffield United 5th in premier
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2020, 04:36:22 PM »
amazing

Offline Spirit of 2000

  • Graham Leggat
  • **
  • Posts: 912
Re: Sheffield United 5th in premier
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2020, 06:09:34 PM »
Im glad Im not watching Sheffield united every week . They could still get relegated by the way.

I wouldn't waste money betting on them for the drop with the dross in the bottom 5. Anyone watching Villa getting caned at home? This side assembled like ours last season for huge budget transfer and wage wise compared to Sheffield United. Also why would watching a well drilled passionate bunch of over achievers fly high in 5th in the premiership halfway through January be awful to watch if you support that club? Beats being a Fulham or Villa fan and watch your team roll over and get destroyed frequently. I'd welcome a mentality and ethos here that Wilder has instilled at Sheff United.

Offline AnOldBrownie

  • Jimmy Hill
  • *
  • Posts: 2126
Re: Sheffield United 5th in premier
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2020, 07:17:38 PM »
Are there stats that indicate whether a player has passion, will to win and team spirit? 

Serious question. Personally I doubt it.

 082.gif

It's not a simple formula.

Now, I agree that a team needs to be able to play it's system very well AND defend as a unit.    That second part is one of the things Fulham was the worst at that I've seen in my 6 years of watching premier league football.

Michael Hector is a start...(a player that might be able to hang at the next level).    The team will need at least 2 more solid defenders to stay up next season.   Players that aren't currently on the squad. (and better than Calum Chambers...who was one of our better defenders last season).


Offline The Rational Fan

  • The Bard/Corked Hat
  • *
  • Posts: 3354
Re: Sheffield United 5th in premier
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2020, 05:51:17 AM »
Sheffield United whoscored statistics are AMAZING no stars and no underperformers.

Only four teams in the EPL average more than 6.80 (Liverpool, ManCity, Leciester & Chelsea).

So, the below scores are very good, especially the complete lack of a underperformer.

1   Dean Henderson 21 games   6.65 whoscored (better than Rico 18/19 of 6.57)
2   George Baldock 22 games   6.79 whoscored (similar to Fredericks 16/17 of 6.86)
3   Enda Stevens 22 games   6.93 whoscored (better than Odoi 17/18 of 6.90)
4   Chris Basham 22 games   6.97 whoscored (better than Kalas 17/18 of 6.93)
5   John Egan    21   games   6.91 whoscored (better than Mawson 19/20 or Ream 19/20)
6   Jack O'Connell 22 games   6.96 whoscored (better than S.Malone 16/17 of 6.87)
7   John Lundstram 21 games   6.85 whoscored (better than Chamber 18/19 of 6.82)
8   Oliver Norwood  22 games   6.99 whoscored (better than Stefjo 17/18 of 6.86)
9   D. McGoldrick 16 games   6.95 whoscored (better than Knockaert 19/20 of 6.77)
10   Oliver McBurnie 9  games   6.88 whoscored (better than Babel 18/19 of 6.86)
11   John Fleck 19 games       6.95 whoscored (better than Piazon 17/18 of 6.82)

My guess is statistics and watching every game you probably draw the same lesson.

The lesson learnt from Sheffield United is you don't need stars if no one underperforms.


« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 06:05:07 AM by The Rational Fan »

Offline RaySmith

  • Gentleman Jim
  • ***
  • Posts: 6660
Re: Sheffield United 5th in premier
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2020, 06:02:01 AM »
Will they be able to keep this standard up, with  potential injuries, and fatigue?

Offline Fulhamfan666

  • Graham Leggat
  • **
  • Posts: 632
Re: Sheffield United 5th in premier
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2020, 02:02:31 PM »
Will they be able to keep this standard up, with  potential injuries, and fatigue?

I think so yeah


Offline colinwhite

  • MAESTRO
  • **
  • Posts: 2527
Re: Sheffield United 5th in premier
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2020, 06:15:29 PM »
Is the point of this post suggesting that Sheffield Utd`s philosophy and style should be our model ?

Offline Spirit of 2000

  • Graham Leggat
  • **
  • Posts: 912
Re: Sheffield United 5th in premier
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2020, 07:12:24 PM »
Is the point of this post suggesting that Sheffield Utd`s philosophy and style should be our model ?

Style is subjective.

Philosephy most definitely

Offline fulhamross

  • Graham Leggat
  • **
  • Posts: 648
Re: Sheffield United 5th in premier
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2020, 03:17:28 PM »
Sheffield United will be relegated next season