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How the hell do we replace Mitrovic’?

Started by Jimsbeerbelly, May 02, 2020, 01:27:12 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Whitesideup

Quote from: filham on May 02, 2020, 10:26:17 AM
Quote from: rebel on May 02, 2020, 08:04:48 AM
To be honest, he's been 'good' in the Championship. He's been much better for Serbia, for me he misses too many chances that top Prem strikers would put away. In one match this season, he had 3 of the easiest chances to put away, but failed to do so.

Yes we are only 3rd because of him, but he should be scoring a load more goals in the Championship. 
Sorry but Mitro has been invaluable , just look at  how those around him have performed and you will have an idea of how we would be without him. Ried , who seems to be a favourite on this board, has missed chances galore and failed in the striker role. We have no replacement in the club so we would have to bring in someone new.
The example above of Frank Large replacing Alan Clarke is what we may expect if Mitro leaves.
You obviously think little of Reid. As one of those who regard him highly, I would agree that he has missed more chances than he should have this year, and that this is a disappointment. In his defence .. he was not a regular starter in the earlier part of the season. And very often, especially when replacing Knockaert, he was asked to hog the touchline .. from where opportunities were few.

However, I do agree that the missing of several chances is a failing and maybe he has lost a bit of confidence in front of the goal, but that doesn't make him a "failure". He still contributes a lot and he is one of our most creative players. Just another example of how we view things differently.

Carborundum

Quote from: Statto on May 05, 2020, 12:22:37 AM
Quote from: Carborundum on May 03, 2020, 10:17:06 AM
The engine behind football is the money from TV. How many people are going to struggle to pay for TV subscriptions in the coming years? 

Most people haven't been furloughed, so are presumably still on full or some decent level of pay. And yet spending less than we did as impoverished students. Personally I'm saving a fortune. I suspect a good number of people are going to feel bloody minted when this thing is over. Never mind struggling to renew £30 Sky subscriptions, more fans will be pricing up a box in the new stand!
I hope you are right.  Better leave it there.

rebel

Quote from: Tempest on May 05, 2020, 08:37:39 AM
I'm not sure Mitro gets the support he needs from Knock and Cav, personally I'd revert to two wingers playing on their "natural" side and have them whipping in crosses rather than cutting back on to their favoured foot and shooting, make him the focal point and he would get close to 40 plus goals a season, genuinely feel we don't play to his strengths.

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk



To get his 23 goals this season, Mitro has had 92 opportunities. So yes if the team get crosses in it will add to the number of opportunities created for him.


rebel

Quote from: Twig on May 05, 2020, 09:22:26 AM
Quote from: rebel on May 02, 2020, 03:28:31 PM
Quote from: Twig on May 02, 2020, 12:29:17 PM
Quote from: rebel on May 02, 2020, 09:38:31 AM
Quote from: river phoenix on May 02, 2020, 09:10:08 AM
Quote from: rebel on May 02, 2020, 08:04:48 AM
To be honest, he's been 'good' in the Championship. He's been much better for Serbia, for me he misses too many chances that top Prem strikers would put away. In one match this season, he had 3 of the easiest chances to put away, but failed to do so.

Yes we are only 3rd because of him, but he should be scoring a load more goals in the Championship.

Jeez. He was on a route to score 30+ goals this season. How much more would you want? 50?

And there is no striker in the world of football who scores every chance he has.

Pre season I prediction of 45, he's had the opportunities. Yes the season isn't over as such. He is capable of much more. The chances have been created. 

There is also a different body language when he plays for Fulham and Serbia. I'd like to see the same in both roles.   

45? Seriously?  As to his body language, I couldn't give a rat's arse as long as he keeps banging them in. And by the way, have you noticed he's obviously popular with his team mates? You only have to watch how pleased they are for him when he scores, so they obviously don't have an issue with his body language either.  Anything over 30 goals in a season is clearly excellent and I have no complaints.

However as to the OP, why assume we will need to replace him? It's not a given that he will move on.

45 Seriously, Body language is very important for individuals, the team, the manager, it's o.k. for you not to care, but also understand where the below performances come from. That was super highlighted in the Prem last season.


Read my post again. I also pointed out that his team mates clearly enjoy playing with him and are generous in celebrating his goals. So your assertion that his body language may be a problem for his team, manager etc. hardly seems to hold water.

Maybe when he scores, but all players celebrate goals, but generally it's not 'fire and fury' like when he plays for Serbia 

Riverside

I think he will stay
I believe that Football is facing a financial shake up and those players on current contracts are unlikely to be moving
1) teams won't pay the "asking" price from teams wealthy enough - Fulham will be one of them assuming the FFP rules will be eased
2) there will be fire sales of players from teams needing the cash
3) players salaries will be heading downwards rather than upwards so players are unlikely to move for more cash
There will of course be exceptions to these general trends and Mitro could be one - especially if we don't go up
Then I guess we will have Kamara playing in his preferred position and I see no reason he cannot get 30 championship goals
And Stansfield as next in line

Statto

Quote from: Twig on May 05, 2020, 09:18:05 AM
Quote from: Statto on May 05, 2020, 12:22:37 AM
Quote from: Carborundum on May 03, 2020, 10:17:06 AM
The engine behind football is the money from TV. How many people are going to struggle to pay for TV subscriptions in the coming years? 

Most people haven't been furloughed, so are presumably still on full or some decent level of pay. And yet spending less than we did as impoverished students. Personally I'm saving a fortune. I suspect a good number of people are going to feel bloody minted when this thing is over. Never mind struggling to renew £30 Sky subscriptions, more fans will be pricing up a box in the new stand!

Lol you might be but my investment portfolio has crashed. Ah you say, share values will return - well perhaps. But I suspect that dividend yields, which generate much of our income, may never fully recover. So whilst our spending has fallen, our income has nosedived.

If dividends are a substantial part of someone's income then their underlying investment portfolio must be a pretty whopping size. Considering a £400k portfolio would only generate what, maybe £20k pa? Well done to them I say, but they obviously ain't short and I can't imagine them struggling to pay their Sky TV subs.


Sting of the North

#46
Quote from: rebel on May 05, 2020, 11:24:13 AM
Quote from: Tempest on May 05, 2020, 08:37:39 AM
I'm not sure Mitro gets the support he needs from Knock and Cav, personally I'd revert to two wingers playing on their "natural" side and have them whipping in crosses rather than cutting back on to their favoured foot and shooting, make him the focal point and he would get close to 40 plus goals a season, genuinely feel we don't play to his strengths.

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk



To get his 23 goals this season, Mitro has had 92 opportunities. So yes if the team get crosses in it will add to the number of opportunities created for him.

So, if we disregard that you believe it reasonable that Mitro, in order to be deemed to have anything more than a decent season, should absolutely demolish all previous scoring records in the Championship, we should maybe look a little deeper than your 23 goals from 92 opportunities (since "opportunities" is a very unprecise measurement, or do you mean "shots" which is also a pretty meaningless stat in isolation?).

Although this will never be an exact science, there are those who devote plenty of time to try to show various things with stats. One such stat is "expected goals", which can be shown for both teams as a whole as well as for individual players. In short, this is meant to calculate how many goals a player should score based on not only the number of opportunities but the (admittedly somewhat subjective) quality of those opportunities based on a wide range of factors.

Normally to my understanding even great players do not score high above expoected goals over an extended period of time. What instead sets out a great and productive striker is that he does indeed score when expected most of the time and that he also gets into scoring opportunities often enough.

https://experimental361.com/2020/03/09/attack-breakdowns-championship-8-mar-2020/

The link above leads you to an interesting page that tries to see whether or not players are scoring as expected. You may scroll down to Fulham and check whether the available data supports your stance that Mitro should have scored many more goals by now (hint: he shouldn't). Another site I checked (Infogol) have Mitro on 25.66 expected goals by now, which means that he is slightly underperforming in the goal scoring department, but nowhere even close to what you are suggesting if you indeed believe he should have been on a run towards 45 goals (would have been roughly 36 then by now). In any case, if you have someone that gets into many good goal scoring opportunities and performs somewhere close to his expected goals ratio then you'll have a great striker.

Stats do not tell the full story, but it is a helpful tool to try to see whether your subjective opinion seem to be based in reality or not. It seems like Mitro is scoring at just slightly below the rate that he should, so the criticism that he misses way too many chances seem to not hold up. It could potentially be argued that he should get himself into even more and better scoring opportunities (by quite a massive amount to reach your expected numbers) but that is surely not a one-man issue?

rebel

#47
Quote from: Statto on May 05, 2020, 11:55:33 AM
Quote from: Twig on May 05, 2020, 09:18:05 AM
Quote from: Statto on May 05, 2020, 12:22:37 AM
Quote from: Carborundum on May 03, 2020, 10:17:06 AM
The engine behind football is the money from TV. How many people are going to struggle to pay for TV subscriptions in the coming years? 

Most people haven't been furloughed, so are presumably still on full or some decent level of pay. And yet spending less than we did as impoverished students. Personally I'm saving a fortune. I suspect a good number of people are going to feel bloody minted when this thing is over. Never mind struggling to renew £30 Sky subscriptions, more fans will be pricing up a box in the new stand!

Lol you might be but my investment portfolio has crashed. Ah you say, share values will return - well perhaps. But I suspect that dividend yields, which generate much of our income, may never fully recover. So whilst our spending has fallen, our income has nosedived.

If dividends are a substantial part of someone's income then their underlying investment portfolio must be a pretty whopping size. Considering a £400k portfolio would only generate what, maybe £20k pa? Well done to them I say, but they obviously ain't short and I can't imagine them struggling to pay their Sky TV subs.
Quote from: Sting of the North on May 05, 2020, 12:51:37 PM
Quote from: rebel on May 05, 2020, 11:24:13 AM
Quote from: Tempest on May 05, 2020, 08:37:39 AM
I'm not sure Mitro gets the support he needs from Knock and Cav, personally I'd revert to two wingers playing on their "natural" side and have them whipping in crosses rather than cutting back on to their favoured foot and shooting, make him the focal point and he would get close to 40 plus goals a season, genuinely feel we don't play to his strengths.

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk



To get his 23 goals this season, Mitro has had 92 opportunities. So yes if the team get crosses in it will add to the number of opportunities created for him.

So, if we disregard that you believe it reasonable that Mitro, in order to be deemed to have anything more than a decent season, should absolutely demolish all previous scoring records in the Championship, we should maybe look a little deeper than your 23 goals from 92 opportunities (since "opportunities" is a very unprecise measurement, or do you mean "shots" which is also a pretty meaningless stat in isolation?).

Although this will never be an exact science, there are those who devote plenty of time to try to show various things with stats. One such stat is "expected goals", which can be shown for both teams as a whole as well as for individual players. In short, this is meant to calculate how many goals a player should score based on not only the number of opportunities but the (admittedly somewhat subjective) quality of those opportunities based on a wide range of factors.

Normally to my understanding even great players do not score high above expoected goals over an extended period of time. What instead sets out a great and productive striker is that he does indeed score when expected most of the time and that he also gets into scoring opportunities often enough.

https://experimental361.com/2020/03/09/attack-breakdowns-championship-8-mar-2020/

The link above leads you to an interesting page that tries to see whether or not players are scoring as expected. You may scroll down to Fulham and check whether the available data supports your stance that Mitro should have scored many more goals by now (hint: he shouldn't). Another site I checked (Infogol) have Mitro on 25.66 expected goals by now, which means that he is slightly underperforming in the goal scoring department, but nowhere even close to what you are suggesting if you indeed believe he should have been on a run towards 45 goals (would have been roughly 36 then by now). In any case, if you have someone that gets into many good goal scoring opportunities and performs somewhere close to his expected goals ratio then you'll have a great striker.

Stats do not tell the full story, but it is a helpful tool to try to see whether your subjective opinion seem to be based in reality or not. It seems like Mitro is scoring at just slightly below the rate that he should, so the criticism that he misses way too many chances seem to not hold up. It could potentially be argued that he should get himself into even more and better scoring opportunities (by quite a massive amount to reach your expected numbers) but that is surely not a one-man issue?

I note the various caveat's in your post. Add to that the site you reference, I note that the site is 'Experimental' with 'sporadic analysis', so I think you need to find something more compelling. If I had time on my hands, I'd happily compile a Mitro 'misses' 2020 video, although he's the top scorer in the Championship, he has missed many easy chances.

filham

Quote from: Tempest on May 05, 2020, 08:37:39 AM
I'm not sure Mitro gets the support he needs from Knock and Cav, personally I'd revert to two wingers playing on their "natural" side and have them whipping in crosses rather than cutting back on to their favoured foot and shooting, make him the focal point and he would get close to 40 plus goals a season, genuinely feel we don't play to his strengths.

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk


Those pacey wide men are not readily available . We were never able to replaced Fredericks so have had to settle for strong inside out wide men.


rebel

Quote from: filham on May 05, 2020, 06:23:16 PM
Quote from: Tempest on May 05, 2020, 08:37:39 AM
I'm not sure Mitro gets the support he needs from Knock and Cav, personally I'd revert to two wingers playing on their "natural" side and have them whipping in crosses rather than cutting back on to their favoured foot and shooting, make him the focal point and he would get close to 40 plus goals a season, genuinely feel we don't play to his strengths.

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk


Those pacey wide men are not readily available . We were never able to replaced Fredericks so have had to settle for strong inside out wide men.

Yep Malone got better and better, if he didn't have to job share with Sess, his assist stats would have been much better. When Sess moved into midfield Malone was on fire.   

Sting of the North

Quote from: rebel on May 05, 2020, 02:39:00 PM

I note the various caveat's in your post. Add to that the site you reference, I note that the site is 'Experimental' with 'sporadic analysis', so I think you need to find something more compelling. If I had time on my hands, I'd happily compile a Mitro 'misses' 2020 video, although he's the top scorer in the Championship, he has missed many easy chances.

You mention my caveats as if it is something bad, whereas I note your complete lack of the same in your posts on this subject as something negative (it indicates a lack of self criticism and critical thinking in my book). Your posts also lack of any sort of 'evidence' as to why Mitro is having just an ok season (other than a non-existent but theoretical video with cherry picked moments that you unfortunately don't have time to compile, but I am sure it would have included all the difficult chances Mitro converts as well in order to be fair). Thus, it seems a tad ironic that you question whether my arguments are compelling.

You also seem to mistake the site as well as the context in which they use the word 'sporadic'. They are conducting actual analysis based on actual stats (i.e. the opposite of gut feeling). And you ignored the fact that I mentioned yet another website that uses stats professionally. Actually you seem to dismiss any arguments that don't support your own conclusion, so I assume you are not interested in actually discussing this.

Again on your (non-existent) video, no one here (including myself) have as far as I can see stated that Mitro has not missed easy chances this season, or that he couldn't have scored more. It is just that many likely acknowledges that he could also have scored less, or gotten himself to fewer easy chances as well, and in the end reaching the (subjective) conclusion that he is having a very good season (supported by the fact that he is on track to break the scoring record for this league). As I tried to explain to no avail is that a huge part of being a successful scorer is to have the quality to constantly get into good scoring positions. Even the very best of strikers in the world misses their fair share of chances.

You are of course free to disagree, but it would be interesting to see an argument that was more compelling than "I believe he misses too many easy chances".

The Rational Fan

Quote from: rebel on May 05, 2020, 06:57:13 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 05, 2020, 02:41:10 AM
Quote from: Statto on May 02, 2020, 07:23:05 PM
Quote from: rebel on May 02, 2020, 05:22:14 PM
Is the Prem the same as the Championship? There are load for factors to consider.
Mitro has more to his game then Bent ever had.
So he's better than Bent but shouldn't necessarily be expected to score 50% more goals than Bent's best ever season, because there are other factors to consider?
I agree entirely!
Perhaps you should apply the same reasoning to Glenn Murray, Jordan Rhodes et al, and not expect Mitrovic to score 50% more goals than their best ever seasons either!!

How is Mitrovoic going to score 45 goals in a season, when he is practical double marked every game. Fulham needs more goal scoring from other players, in my opinion Mitrovoic is more dangerous with Ryan Sessegnon on his left. Mitrovoic is best when the defence is worried about the other attacking players scoring too.

If we don't go up next season, we will have to sell some players and cut the wage bill to reduce spending by £10m, it's a struggle to know where to cut. Selling Mitrovoic is one option, because we can sell him and buy a replacement.

The thing is in one match this season he missed 3 of the easiest chances he'll ever get. The stats speak for themselves. Do you know how many goal scoring opportunities Mitro has had this season? It makes nonsense
of the fact that he has been triple, quadruple etc marked.

Mitrovoic is a great player that can shot even while heavily marked, but I think he maybe worth more to a premier league team. If we can sell Mitro and buy another striker plus keep the rest of the squad together, it needs to be considered.


rebel

Quote from: Sting of the North on May 05, 2020, 11:35:34 PM
Quote from: rebel on May 05, 2020, 02:39:00 PM

I note the various caveat's in your post. Add to that the site you reference, I note that the site is 'Experimental' with 'sporadic analysis', so I think you need to find something more compelling. If I had time on my hands, I'd happily compile a Mitro 'misses' 2020 video, although he's the top scorer in the Championship, he has missed many easy chances.

You mention my caveats as if it is something bad, whereas I note your complete lack of the same in your posts on this subject as something negative (it indicates a lack of self criticism and critical thinking in my book). Your posts also lack of any sort of 'evidence' as to why Mitro is having just an ok season (other than a non-existent but theoretical video with cherry picked moments that you unfortunately don't have time to compile, but I am sure it would have included all the difficult chances Mitro converts as well in order to be fair). Thus, it seems a tad ironic that you question whether my arguments are compelling.

You also seem to mistake the site as well as the context in which they use the word 'sporadic'. They are conducting actual analysis based on actual stats (i.e. the opposite of gut feeling). And you ignored the fact that I mentioned yet another website that uses stats professionally. Actually you seem to dismiss any arguments that don't support your own conclusion, so I assume you are not interested in actually discussing this.

Again on your (non-existent) video, no one here (including myself) have as far as I can see stated that Mitro has not missed easy chances this season, or that he couldn't have scored more. It is just that many likely acknowledges that he could also have scored less, or gotten himself to fewer easy chances as well, and in the end reaching the (subjective) conclusion that he is having a very good season (supported by the fact that he is on track to break the scoring record for this league). As I tried to explain to no avail is that a huge part of being a successful scorer is to have the quality to constantly get into good scoring positions. Even the very best of strikers in the world misses their fair share of chances.

You are of course free to disagree, but it would be interesting to see an argument that was more compelling than "I believe he misses too many easy chances".

Total waffle, I could go through every single point you've raised. The simple fact is that Mitro has had 92 attempts on goal and scored 23 goals. In that 69 attempts there has been lots of easy chances he has missed. Your talking about a non-existent video, when several posters agree that he has missed quite a few chances. I'm happy to review each of the 69 opportunities with you when I have more time on my hands.

Twig

Quote from: Statto on May 05, 2020, 11:55:33 AM
Quote from: Twig on May 05, 2020, 09:18:05 AM
Quote from: Statto on May 05, 2020, 12:22:37 AM
Quote from: Carborundum on May 03, 2020, 10:17:06 AM
The engine behind football is the money from TV. How many people are going to struggle to pay for TV subscriptions in the coming years? 

Most people haven't been furloughed, so are presumably still on full or some decent level of pay. And yet spending less than we did as impoverished students. Personally I'm saving a fortune. I suspect a good number of people are going to feel bloody minted when this thing is over. Never mind struggling to renew £30 Sky subscriptions, more fans will be pricing up a box in the new stand!

Lol you might be but my investment portfolio has crashed. Ah you say, share values will return - well perhaps. But I suspect that dividend yields, which generate much of our income, may never fully recover. So whilst our spending has fallen, our income has nosedived.

If dividends are a substantial part of someone's income then their underlying investment portfolio must be a pretty whopping size. Considering a £400k portfolio would only generate what, maybe £20k pa? Well done to them I say, but they obviously ain't short and I can't imagine them struggling to pay their Sky TV subs.

5% was about right as average divi. But I'm talking a rather larger portfolio size.  Don't get me wrong I have absolutely no complaints. I was just having a laugh at your comment about being bloody minted.

Sting of the North

#54
Quote from: rebel on May 06, 2020, 10:33:47 AM
Quote from: Sting of the North on May 05, 2020, 11:35:34 PM
Quote from: rebel on May 05, 2020, 02:39:00 PM

I note the various caveat's in your post. Add to that the site you reference, I note that the site is 'Experimental' with 'sporadic analysis', so I think you need to find something more compelling. If I had time on my hands, I'd happily compile a Mitro 'misses' 2020 video, although he's the top scorer in the Championship, he has missed many easy chances.

You mention my caveats as if it is something bad, whereas I note your complete lack of the same in your posts on this subject as something negative (it indicates a lack of self criticism and critical thinking in my book). Your posts also lack of any sort of 'evidence' as to why Mitro is having just an ok season (other than a non-existent but theoretical video with cherry picked moments that you unfortunately don't have time to compile, but I am sure it would have included all the difficult chances Mitro converts as well in order to be fair). Thus, it seems a tad ironic that you question whether my arguments are compelling.

You also seem to mistake the site as well as the context in which they use the word 'sporadic'. They are conducting actual analysis based on actual stats (i.e. the opposite of gut feeling). And you ignored the fact that I mentioned yet another website that uses stats professionally. Actually you seem to dismiss any arguments that don't support your own conclusion, so I assume you are not interested in actually discussing this.

Again on your (non-existent) video, no one here (including myself) have as far as I can see stated that Mitro has not missed easy chances this season, or that he couldn't have scored more. It is just that many likely acknowledges that he could also have scored less, or gotten himself to fewer easy chances as well, and in the end reaching the (subjective) conclusion that he is having a very good season (supported by the fact that he is on track to break the scoring record for this league). As I tried to explain to no avail is that a huge part of being a successful scorer is to have the quality to constantly get into good scoring positions. Even the very best of strikers in the world misses their fair share of chances.

You are of course free to disagree, but it would be interesting to see an argument that was more compelling than "I believe he misses too many easy chances".

Total waffle, I could go through every single point you've raised. The simple fact is that Mitro has had 92 attempts on goal and scored 23 goals. In that 69 attempts there has been lots of easy chances he has missed. Your talking about a non-existent video, when several posters agree that he has missed quite a few chances. I'm happy to review each of the 69 opportunities with you when I have more time on my hands.

Yet another post which not only offers zero arguments other than your "simple facts" of 23 goals on 92 chances as well as not offering any counter arguments to anything in my post other than that my post in its' entirety is according to you "total waffle" (great argument by the way). By the way, I also agree that he has missed quite a few chances (never said anything close to being contradictory to that), but that doesn't make your video any more real.

I'm not sureat this point if you are just trolling or if you are just incapable of (or not interested in) even considering to discuss anything beyond yout pre-conceived opinion, but in either case this "discussion" is obviously completely pointless. So, thank you for the kind offering of reviewing the 69 opportunities but I have to decline because it would be a huge waste of both our time. If I had any hope of you actually being even moderately interested in anyone else's opinion I would try to point out why, in my opinion, such an excercise would be close to pointless when discussing whether Mitro has had a good season without adding much further context, but you are obviously not looking for anything other than "simple facts".


Andy S

Before we criticise Mitro we should be looking at the rest of the team for more goals. All strikers miss chances. Years ago Watford had a prolific striker called Luther Blisset his nickname was Luther missit

rebel

Quote from: Sting of the North on May 06, 2020, 11:15:12 AM
Quote from: rebel on May 06, 2020, 10:33:47 AM
Quote from: Sting of the North on May 05, 2020, 11:35:34 PM
Quote from: rebel on May 05, 2020, 02:39:00 PM

I note the various caveat's in your post. Add to that the site you reference, I note that the site is 'Experimental' with 'sporadic analysis', so I think you need to find something more compelling. If I had time on my hands, I'd happily compile a Mitro 'misses' 2020 video, although he's the top scorer in the Championship, he has missed many easy chances.

You mention my caveats as if it is something bad, whereas I note your complete lack of the same in your posts on this subject as something negative (it indicates a lack of self criticism and critical thinking in my book). Your posts also lack of any sort of 'evidence' as to why Mitro is having just an ok season (other than a non-existent but theoretical video with cherry picked moments that you unfortunately don't have time to compile, but I am sure it would have included all the difficult chances Mitro converts as well in order to be fair). Thus, it seems a tad ironic that you question whether my arguments are compelling.

You also seem to mistake the site as well as the context in which they use the word 'sporadic'. They are conducting actual analysis based on actual stats (i.e. the opposite of gut feeling). And you ignored the fact that I mentioned yet another website that uses stats professionally. Actually you seem to dismiss any arguments that don't support your own conclusion, so I assume you are not interested in actually discussing this.

Again on your (non-existent) video, no one here (including myself) have as far as I can see stated that Mitro has not missed easy chances this season, or that he couldn't have scored more. It is just that many likely acknowledges that he could also have scored less, or gotten himself to fewer easy chances as well, and in the end reaching the (subjective) conclusion that he is having a very good season (supported by the fact that he is on track to break the scoring record for this league). As I tried to explain to no avail is that a huge part of being a successful scorer is to have the quality to constantly get into good scoring positions. Even the very best of strikers in the world misses their fair share of chances.

You are of course free to disagree, but it would be interesting to see an argument that was more compelling than "I believe he misses too many easy chances".

Total waffle, I could go through every single point you've raised. The simple fact is that Mitro has had 92 attempts on goal and scored 23 goals. In that 69 attempts there has been lots of easy chances he has missed. Your talking about a non-existent video, when several posters agree that he has missed quite a few chances. I'm happy to review each of the 69 opportunities with you when I have more time on my hands.

Yet another post which not only offers zero arguments other than your "simple facts" of 23 goals on 92 chances as well as not offering any counter arguments to anything in my post other than that my post in its' entirety is according to you "total waffle" (great argument by the way). By the way, I also agree that he has missed quite a few chances (never said anything close to being contradictory to that), but that doesn't make your video any more real.

I'm not sureat this point if you are just trolling or if you are just incapable of (or not interested in) even considering to discuss anything beyond yout pre-conceived opinion, but in either case this "discussion" is obviously completely pointless. So, thank you for the kind offering of reviewing the 69 opportunities but I have to decline because it would be a huge waste of both our time. If I had any hope of you actually being even moderately interested in anyone else's opinion I would try to point out why, in my opinion, such an excercise would be close to pointless when discussing whether Mitro has had a good season without adding much further context, but you are obviously not looking for anything other than "simple facts".

Not trolling, why would I troll? Maybe that's your past time, not mine. The facts back up the fact that, although Mitro has had a good season, he should have scored more goals, he more then once had the opportunity to score a hat trick in a match, but ended up missing all the opportunities. 

rebel

Quote from: Andy S on May 06, 2020, 01:17:29 PM
Before we criticise Mitro we should be looking at the rest of the team for more goals. All strikers miss chances. Years ago Watford had a prolific striker called Luther Blisset his nickname was Luther missit

Yes all strikers do, the likes of Ronaldo, Messi rarely miss the easy ones, they don't miss the difficult ones, they make the difficult ones look easy, that's why we say 'wow, how did they do that?'


filham

Well, the title of this thread is "How the Hell do we replace Mitro" and after thee pages of comment none of us have directly answered the question and that is because we can't. For us in the championship Mitro is irreplaceable. Any player that would cost a fraction less, is almost as good and on lower wages will be snapped up by a premier league team.

Without Mitro therefore we have to drastically change our tactics to suit a different type of striker and to ensure we have players in other positions chipping in with a few more goals. The attacking side of our game will need a complete overhaul and this is not going to be achieved overnight but will take a season or so.
So, fail to get promotion this season then we will probably lose Mitro and next season will be a rebuild with a mid table finish at the best.

Sting of the North

Quote from: rebel on May 06, 2020, 02:00:48 PM

Not trolling, why would I troll? Maybe that's your past time, not mine. The facts back up the fact that, although Mitro has had a good season, he should have scored more goals, he more then once had the opportunity to score a hat trick in a match, but ended up missing all the opportunities.

It's not a fact that he should have scored more goals, as it would only be a fact if there was a perfectly objective way to measure that over time. The more advanced and stats based methods that try to eliminate as much of the subjectivity as possible that  do exists (even though they are surely not perfect) points to him being close to where he should reasonable be. Those are also not facts, but at least a much better attempt than your "23 goals from 92 chances is bad"-method. Not that it matter to you in the slightest obviously.